I frequently hear people say on /his/ that "everything you like about Japan comes from China." I've seen the infographs where analogous concepts from China are adopted or "stolen" if you prefer by Japan. Cherry blossom viewings come from plum tree viewings in ancient China, etc, etc.Whether or not you accept this as true, whether or not you even agree with the concept that culture can be "stolen", I don't care about this discussion, this isn't what this thread is about.My question is when exactly, what year, decade, or century did China go from being a pleasant place with flower arranging, tea ceremonies, silk garments, and far more importantly common decency between individuals to a land of people spitting in the streets, foot binding, animal cruelty, brash aggressive attitudes, and generally being repugnant people?Was it when the Mongols invaded? Was it when the Manchu conquered them? Was it the New culture movement in the 1910s? Was it during the civil war and Japanese invasion? Was it when the communists took over? Was it during the cultural revolution? Was it with the market reforms?How did a polite, courteous, aesthetic, kind people become what we see today? Is the question wrong? Is it in fact the case that China has never been a nice country and rather it's Japan and to a lesser extent Korea that refined Chinese culture?
The chinese always were bad people, I was just hearing a story about how this emperor tortured his concubines just insane shit.
>>185041222,000 years of slumdogmaxxing
>>18504122>My question is when exactly, what year, decade, or century did China go from being a pleasant place with flower arranging, tea ceremonies, silk garments, and far more importantly common decency between individuals to a land of people spitting in the streets, foot binding, animal cruelty, brash aggressive attitudes, and generally being repugnant people?When perception of the country shifted from the upper class to the common people, like with most countries.
>When did China become such an unpleasant country?When they became enslaved by the west to make all their shit
once china's little godlen era ends from trump politics it will be india 2 and people will despise it just as much if not more because of how arrogant they are as opposed to indians, indians don't even eat dogs, can you imagine eating a dog?
It was all over after the Mohists lost and Confucians won.
>>18504134The average poor American doesn't behave like the OP pic. Even homeless aren't that unhygienic or cruel to animals. The people in the OP pic are respectable food vendors who earn a decent amount of money selling dog meat (It's pretty lucrative in China) yet they still act like savages.Furthermore even middle class people will happily walk past someone who's just been run over in the street.
>>18504122China has always been a shithole.
>>18504169no I've met some subhuman whites that ate dog it's probably not common though
>>18504217
>>18504122china is to japan what greece and italy are to northern europesimilarly, modern-day greece and italy are scoffed at by northerners
>>18504227you don't think some white trash eats dogs and cats and whatever else?
>>18504350No, I truly do not.There's very little meat on dogs, the only possible reason someone would eat one is as a cultural practice. The sort that exists in China but doesn't exist in any white culture.
I also want to know because I cannot side with China until they do something about this.
It could also be "Western" influence from inside its walls causing people to act like this knowing that it would be a disadvantage to the China.
>>18504169You have a white trash politician who bragged about killing her dog. Yokels are famous for eating weird animals like raccoons, opossums, and squirrels. They do all kinds of asinine shit ranging from rolling coal to getting fucked up on meth and stealing copper wire. If you’ve never seen white homeless camps or trailer trash colonies, I can forgive you for thinking white people aren’t that unhygienic. It’s just that they are. It looks like anything out of a slum in India or China. A lot of white trash are even against regulations to protect food animals from what amounts to torture. >but what about all these gross things everyone else doesEvery culture has despicable, revolting behavior that exists within it. Animal cruelty over to just gross stuff like street shitting. The fact is that ignorance and poverty go hand in hand and between them they produce this shit. China is still very poor in much of its rural areas and the people there show it. For example with increasing standards of living you’re seeing Chinese animal welfare activists, and hostility towards the practice of eating dogs and cats. The decline of the Japanese whaling industry is another example of this trend. It’s become unprofitable and has to be subsidized because nostalgic retards talk about muh culture in the same way white trash talk about dog fighting and Chinese bumpkins talk about shorting pangolin bones to deal with their micropenis issues.
>>18504122Every society has pleasant and unpleasant existing simultaneously. Some countries are better able to develop a national aesthetic which usually folds back in impoverished communities to look stylish in some way. You see this with the archetype of the poor Parisian artist or the Japanese film Shoplifters or any of the million films and TV shows about being a poor New Yorker.China's bid to power isn't based on soft power so such an aesthetic doesn't really exist. Foreigners glimpse different aspects of the country all at once without the country offering a contextualizing narrative.
Have you been to China? You’re about a century late, they aren’t feudal anymore..
>>18504122I would say after the end of Song dynasty, so Mongols yeah. Even though Han Chinese regained their regional dominance during Ming, Hongwu Emperor was peasant born and as such the more high-culture/aristocratic aspect of Chinese society never recovered
>>18504122They were always like that. Low classes were made to suffer and to be exploited. High classes were made to prosper and enjoy high culture when exploiting lower classes.
>>18504448>The sort that exists in China but doesn't exist in any white culture.You are wrong because dogs are eaten in Switzerland even today.
>>18504350If you're in the US and you're homeless there's no way you would need to resort to eating dogs or cats. There's free food thrown out all the time in big cities.
>>18504627>implying hunting squirrels is the same as torturing a dog to death with a blow torch because chinksects think it makes the meat taste better if the animal dies in agonyKys, Chang.
>>18504122>My question is when exactly, what year, decade, or century did China go from being a pleasant place with flower arranging, tea ceremonies, silk garments, and far more importantly common decency between individuals to a land of people spitting in the streets, foot binding, animal cruelty, brash aggressive attitudes, and generally being repugnant people?Read up on the manners of Japanese people encountered when it opened up.All those people running around in loincloths only, shitting and pissing in the open streets, openly mocking people who get scammed for being dumb enough to get scammed, etc.China was also all about extravagant silks, several pages of archaic etiquette in speech and writing, endless bowing for greetings and tea ceremonies even as late as the Warlord Era.But like >>18504134 correctly pointed out, that was the high culture. The dregs have always been dregs and it was exactly the same in Japan as in China.You just don't get to see this because all the Western media knows fuck all about the historical realities of East Asia and their own media is in the Romanticism period where, just like Europeans some 200 years ago, they pretend the commoners were also just as eloquent and finely dressed as anyone else and it wasn't just a massive mob of people who are closer to modern Africans in their belongings, life standards, morals and behavior than anything even close to modern Japanese or Chinese who write those books and shows about them.
>>18505258Let me guess. Local yokel offended by truth that hurts his feefees? Take some time to look at what happens in the factory farms you eat from.
>>18505297There's a difference between deliberately moving the realities of meat harvesting out of sight and out of mind and the Chinese boiling animals alive while laughing and joking about it.
>>18504663This is bullshit.There are numerous examples of social tests in different countries, dropped wallet, etc. And China consistently ranks near the bottom and Japan is almost always at the very top. You can cope all you want and say it's because we don't have a Chinese movie "contextualizing it" but the reality is Chinese are just by and large worse than Japanese people.
>>18505563>sadistic business practice that tortures animals is fineYou know that there have been scandals resulting from animal welfare groups getting recordings of farmers being sadistic to animals in the west, right? There’s just no difference. That kind of thing is the result of poverty and ignorance.
>>18505783>There are numerous examples of social tests in different countries, dropped wallet, etcAll of them are total bullshit anon. >the reality is Chinese are just by and large worse than Japanese people.See the above. No one cares about thirdies returning the stuff or leaving it alone because you can't spin any narrative about it.
>>18505910>No one cares about thirdies returning the stuff or leaving it alone because you can't spin any narrative about it.The fuck do you mean? General perception of China is negative and general perception of Japan is positive because of how their people act.Japs are known for their fans cleaning up after themselves when they go to sporting events.Chinese tourists are known as the most obnoxious and disagreeable in the world.Everyone cares about this.
>>18505907I'm not arguing the meat industry is ethical. I'm arguing that Europeans and Japanese need to add a layer of plausible deniability in the form of windowless abattoirs, but the Chinese literally have a festival for torturing dogs.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Meat_Festival
>>18505783>There are numerous examples of social tests in different countries, dropped wallet, etcDo you think anyone would return your dropped wallet to you on the NYC subway? Or in the gypsy infested parts of Europe?Yet NYC is one of the most romanticised cities in the world. Not in spite of its poverty, crime, and chaos, but in some way because of them. Because there are countless films which depict these things, or being surrounded by them at least, as 'cool', as valuable. Because NYC has produced internationally beloved artists so that the mess of the city itself becomes artistic.The real cope is trying to apply some measurement to these things which are ultimately narrative and reflect soft power influence. The worlds of literature and film furnish us with numerous examples. There's an aesthetic even to Dickens when he's depicting England as industrial, smoggy, full of mistrust, cruelty, and violence.The only major aesthetic output to come out of China until recently was from Hong Kong and lo and behold, HK is seen as in some way different from the rest of the China.
>>18504122All cultures are unpleasant. China has no monopoly.
>>18505916The general perception of China is negative because China is geopolitically aligned against the West. When Ukraine-Russia kicked off, the internet was flooded with people likening Russians to Orcs and Putin to Hitler. Not a few years before, the internet was enchanted by pics of him riding shirtless on a horse or practicing judo.When the World Wars were happening, the Germans were viewed as barbaric Huns and the Japanese as bloodthirsty savages. Not 20 years after WW2, we'd get Kurosawa who made Japan's warrior spirit into something cool and internationally respected.If China totally liberalised under Deng, the West would be singing its praises to this day, speaking of how the Chinese peasant spirit or whatever is what made them economically successful while the traditionalist Japanese stagnated.It's all just nonsense.
>>18505919The festival is obviously abhorrent but it's occurring in an autonomous ethnic enclave with the Han at only a slim majority. Most people don't even speak Mandarin. It's not a good representative of China, evident by the part in the wiki article which speaks about the domestic hostility towards the festival.
>>18505916>Japs are known for their fans cleaning up after themselves when they go to sporting events.Solely because of the "Japan :O" meme. No one cares about the countless other groups that clean up their own stuff. No one cares if Latvia or Cameroon clean up their locker rooms. You can't spin a narrative off that.
>>18505297I don't give a fuck about cows tho
Mao, Mao revitalization / creation of Chinese Medicine and branding Dogs as "Western imperialism". Is a massive one. It was literally invented by him for the sake of being a piece of shit who also didn't know anything about the history of his own country. He's the one who spearheaded shit about torturing animals for "better meat" or boner pills made of rhino horns. Modern Chinas disgusting lack of empathy for life in general can all trace back to Mao. You ever wonder why in those videos where some C hinese person get's run over and no one stops to help them as they bleed out? Because now YOU'RE the one who has to pay for their medical bills. The entire country is based on fucking over the otheer, like India tier IZZAT except not just cultrual but built into the country itself. The weird thing is- it's also an issue with populated cities. Rural chinese don't torture dogs for fun, it's "rural cities" places which are only a few hundred miles from civilization. Some random town in the middle of the jungle isn't no where near as cruel.
>>18506113Boomer slop.
>>18506119Kill yourself nigger cock licker.
>>18505919Yah. Pretty disgusting. That part of China is a LOT poorer and less educated than any developed nation such as the United States or Japan. I’d add that even within China this is seen as a bad thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_and_rights_in_China#Animal_activism_in_China
>>18506122Not doing yourself any favours with your Facebook rants grandpa lol. You still can't visit the kids and most likely won't ever.
>>18505919>I'm arguing that Europeans and Japanese need to add a layer of plausible deniability in the form of windowless abattoirsThere's a fuckton of abuse from the bottom up anon. Not only for cattle but for all meats, fish, bees, chicken. Also massive labour abuses of the staff in many countries since many of these businesses either employ illegals who get threatened with deportation or being holed up in work shacks, people with no other job options and can't get dired, or immigrants who don't kbow any better about their labour rights.
>>18505967>>18506130I've seen a general contempt/disregard for animals in China. For example, I saw one of those "China is living in 2050, just look at this high tech mall!" videos and amidst all the noise and flashing lights they just had a random petting zoo in the dead center where animals sat in a tiny cramped environment they couldn't retreat somewhere quiet to in. The shit looked like the sort of thing that would happen in the West 50 years ago before people thought "Wait a second, obviously that is fucking horrible for the animals."You also see videos of them letting off thousands of balloons for New Years, with no regard for the effect it will have on the environment. The Chinese generally just seem to have a general disregard for everything, they're like NPC or children.
>>18506147>in the west 50 years ago I would never argue that the west isn’t ahead of China in animal welfare. I’m just saying it’s a function of ignorance and poverty. Remember the Great Leap Forward, and the cultural revolution are still in living memory.
>>18506147It's for sure worse than the West but things are getting better. I believe the near extinction of pandas and the possible extinction of the Yangtze dolphin did a lot to wake them up.It's difficult to culturally adjust to realize you're now in charge of nature which was this force that dominated your country for so long. It took the West a long while too.
>>18506164Polluting rivers we drink from has been the leading cause of epidemics for the past 5000 years
>>18504134>When perception of the country shifted from the upper class to the common people, like with most countries.This is unironically true for nearly every country that has ever existed. For a long time, people thought India was a land of culture and mysticism because their only exposure to India was to the elites and to Hindu texts that most Indians historically couldn’t even read due to not being Brahmans. Today people see India for what it really is now that Indians have access to the internet.
>>18506156>>18506164Eh, I don't really like that excuse. If you're a middle class Chinaman with rational thought you can plainly see a petting zoo in the middle of a loud crowded mall is distressing for the animals. The only way that could be allowed to happen is if everybody universally agreed that it didn't matter because who gives a shit if the stress causes the animal a heart attack? They're only animals.Arguing the great leap forward is within living memory is cope, the 20 year olds taking selfies with these abused animals do NOT have memories of the 1950s. Utter NPC thought on behalf of the Chinese. A Westerner would see this and their first thought would be "What the fuck, this isn't right, get those fuckers out of here." A Chinaman sees it and thinks "haha funny long neck sheep"
>>18506172Kashmir was paradise before Islam.
>>18504122Centuries of brain drain to Southeast Asia, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and the west during the century of humiliation and Maoist periods.
>>18506181I'm always amused when Hamza Yusuf or Hakim Murad have sermons about pity to animals, they're talking to brick walls with only the appearance of faces of people
>>18506181It’s not really an excuse. By your own admission (which I agree with) this shit looks like something from 50 years ago in the west. The reason I linked that page to you though is because Chinese people themselves increasingly object to animals being abused. Don’t get me wrong. There is a LOT of ugly trends in modern Chinese culture and society. Just a lack of empathy for animals isn’t inherently Chinese. Further, their authoritarian system strongly favors keeping your head down and not getting involved as a survival strategy. That includes seeing another person in trouble, let alone an animal.
>>18504153>eating dog le badrich coming from "people" who see nothing wrong with bestiality.
>>18506609Most of Europe were completely fine with bestiality, most only seemed to ban it recently, I wonder why?
>>18506612was it due to all the online bullying of furries?
>>18506609Nordic "women" prefer dogs over their own men. Dog brothels were active in Denmark and other Nordic countries up until 2014. No wonder their birth rates are shit.
>>18504153I don't really have a problem with eating dog or cat or whatever; just kill it quickly & humanely, none of this 'torturing it makes the meat sweeter' bullshit .
>>18506609>>18506612>bestiality ought to be banned because it might cause suffering to the animal>industrial slaughterhouses, forced impregnation of cows for dairy production totally fine thoughIt is obvious that they want it banned because they consider it unnatural and disgusting. And that is totally fine, if they only had the courage to honestly argue this way.But the modern “enlightened” West wants to pretend that their morality is strictly based on reason and harm avoidance alone and that they are above taboo, revulsion based moral intuition and appeal to nature “fallacies”, hence they have to provide these hypocritical pseudo-justifications. Same reason that the left-liberal mainstream suddenly start to sound like reborn 19th century eugenicists when they try to justify the ban on incest, while they would strongly condemn any ban on intercourse with people who carry similar congenital risk factors as an outrageous infringement on their right to privacy.The truth is all their aversion to bestiality and incest primarily arises out of an instinctive sense of disgust for which they then provide post-hoc rationalizations, because if they were honest, one could also argue against homosexuality this way.
>>18506609>>18506612Retarded jeet, try to actually understand European law systems. Bestiality has been illegal in Europe since the Middle Ages (basically when the proto-states of the modern European Nation states first came to be). The reforms you are tlaking off have nothing to do with with normalising that practice, the prosecution was just done on an indirect legal basis because European law became more compley and was based on objective thinking (arguing it was illegal because of harm rather than the act of bestiality itself).The recent changes were just closing down loopholes abused by zoophiles which directly contradicts your statement of Europeans tolerating Zoophilia, but I digress.>>18506615That map comes from a time where much of the Third World had no Internet. Of course Europeans were overpresented. What am I even doing, exspecting critical thinking skills from a Pajeet?>>18506623Missunderstanding things again. Let's take your home country India for example (which btw., legalised zoophilia for no legal reasons a few years ago). Until recently zoophilia was technically illegal, but not condemned by communities and considered a serious offense by authorities, hence why it is underreported and neglectef by authorities. Btw., I know damn well you haven't actually even read the article and just copied the picture from another Indian, but I'm asking anyway: Does the map factor in technicalities? Like the one I mentioned in Europe?Also, stop watching fucking porn. The birth rate crisis in Europe has nothing to do with nordic women not being interested in fucking men, birth rates are going down globally, including your own country.
>>18506641>It is obvious that they want it banned because they consider it unnatural and disgustingSeems more to be about worrying about public perception.>Oh no we will be seen as a furry brothel!>Oh no we look bad being the only country not banning it yet!If it was really about finding it revolting, what prevented them from banning it much earlier? Like in the 1950s or 1920s when much of the population weren't illiterate peasants?
>>18506676>Missunderstanding things againSorry but fucking dogs is immoral, why do love zoophilia so much? >Let's take your home country India for exampleThe Jeets are irrelevant, I'm talking about your race. You love fucking dogs maybe if you fucked your men or your women instead of animals you'd save your race from going extinct but no you just want to engage in barbaric hedonistic zoophilia while screeching online about da jooz or any other made up boogeyman.>Also, stop watching fucking pornI don't but you should stop engaging in zoophilia, seriously. >The birth rate crisis in Europe has nothing to do with nordic women not being interested in fucking menYou have to fuck men to get pregnant but nordic women prefer dogs. Vile. >birth rates are going down globally, including your own country.Most of Europe is below replacement rate tho. Which is you should stop engaging in Zoophilia and start being normal for once...is it really that hard?
>>18506699>cannot comprehend simple legal definitions awardNigga, read what I said. Zoophilia is not common, at least here in Germany and has been prosecuted even before the closing of the loophole, it was just prosecuted under different legal terms.It has nothing to do with normalising zoophilia.>Most of Europe is below replacement rate tho. Which is you should stop engaging in ZoophiliaThe entire developed and developing world is below replacement. Nordic countries have better birth rates than many slavs and mediterrean countries. So tell me, is Zoophilia also common China? In all of Eastern Europe? In France? In Brazil? In Argentina? In the United States? In Japan? In South Korea?
>>18506699I looked up what >>18506676 said. turns out their medieval laws regarding intercourse with animals were just for show. France for example rarely executed people for it. The only time they bothered was when they wanted to accuse someone of witchcraft.So basically a law the elite only enforced it when they wanted someone dead. Many European nations actually decriminalize bestiality in the beginning of the 20th century. I can't find their rationality behind it.I guess they were like "Look no one really gives a fuck, this medieval law was just a phony law we used to justifying killing outcasts anyway, let people fuck their cats and dogs legally".
>>18506718>turns out their medieval laws regarding intercourse with animals were just for show. France for example rarely executed people for it. The only time they bothered was when they wanted to accuse someone of witchcraft.Now I'm interested, what is the source?
>>18506718>I can't find their rationality behind itApparantly you didn't look too much into it. European countries were moving away from medieval codes because they were oudated and as I said, zoophilia cases were moved to different legal terms ebcause Christianity was not the accepted basis for modern law anymore.
>>18506727"From at least the thirteenth century and until the French Revolution, French criminal law had theoretically punished sodomy with death (burning at the stake), although in practice law courts only occasionally meted out so drastic a penalty. When the revolutionary politicians of the National Constituent Assembly (1789-1791) set out to remake French government and society, their reforms included new criminal laws inspired by the progressive ideas of the eighteenth-century Enlightenment."https://web.archive.org/web/20140910195256/http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/napoleonic_code.htmlalso(pic related)https://books.google.com/books?id=Z-GbOvrbniQC&dq=Russia+law+zoophilia&pg=PT9Despite their harsh punishment, it was for whatever reason "well-established in ordinary life in Europe ". Either they were so yiffy that punishment didn't deter them or the authorities only enforced the law at their discretion.
>>18504122> everything you like about Japan comes from ChinaThis is a wumao talking point, it’s not true
>>18506711>Zoophilia is not commonOnly 55% of Danes voted to outlaw dog brothels. The Nordic countries were infamous as the "destination" for sex tourists willing to engage in the vile and horrid act of Zoophilia. Sorry, fucking dogs is immoral and defending zoophilia ignored or at times indirectly promoted by the state is disgusting. >at least here in GermanyThe Germs de-facto legalized Zoophilia back in 1969. For over 40 years degenerate Germs were engaging in the disgusting act of Zoophilia unless there was "harm" to the animal as if the animal can complain about "harm". By 2012 the "animal brothels" were widespread in Germany. The government only criminalized it after things got out of hand. Even then organizations like ZETA publicly protested against the government.>It has nothing to do with normalising zoophilia.Animal brothels were common in Germany until 2013. You people are vile. > So tell me, is Zoophilia also common China? In all of Eastern Europe? In France? In Brazil? In Argentina? In the United States? In Japan? In South Korea?No Kraut, you get killed outside Europe for fucking animals. Your governments actively promoted it and you people engaged in it. Now stop defending dogfuckers.In no world I can believe that dogfuckers are "superior" than me nor can I tolerate their existence.
>>18506755I see that you took the 2 sources from the wikiepdia entry. A failry limited perspective, but these sources themselves appear to be credible, so I cannot complain.Anyway, I interprete these different than you do. The limited prosecution of zoophilia doesn't strike me as Apathy or even sympathy towards zoophilia like the other Anon desperately wants to sugges. Otherwise why would a society with a law-code based on morality even include a clause. If like you said, it was only a tool to get rid of someone, what purpose would that tool have if nobody, whether it is the Elite themselves or the common people who they try to sell it, care anyway? Same with the witch trials. Obviously it saw a stark rise during the hysteria, witches were seen as a immediate threat and thus their elimination was of the highest priority, that's why more resources were invested into the legal trials to get rid of them more quickly.I admit, I migh have exeggerated in my first comment, but the sources do not suggest that European culture had a particular high affinity to zoophilia unseen in other parts of the world, only that the crime was underprosecuted because crime itself was more prevalent during the times due to the lack of education, resources and tools of the executive forces. or would you say that Thievery and murder was also accepted as normal because it was underprosecuted?Your own source also makes no pretense of trying to portray the ''oriental'' countries as any better. You focused on France and hey, I agree. They are disgusting, even as fellow Europeans. Shouldn't have included them as an example. But the Anon who incited this discussion was not talking about France.
>>18506797>No Kraut, you get killed outside Europe for fucking animals. You specifically brought up the Nordic Countries to deflect from China.China has no laws for zoophilia. It also has no laws for animal cruelty to charge people indirectly with zoophilia like Germany did before 2013.Is that proof that Chinese People are zoophilic?
>>18506797Now to your actual ''Arguments'':>Only 55% of Danes voted to outlaw dog brothels.Wrong. It was a parliament decision, not a national election. The actual poll states 3/4 of Danes supported the law against bestiality. >defending zoophilia ignored or at times indirectly promoted by the state is disgusting.Again,you dense motherfucker. It was not tolerated because people agreed with it, it was difficult to prosecute, hence why Europe changed its laws in the 2010's. And again, zoophilia was still prosecuted, just under the pretense of animal cruelty.>Animal brothels were common in Germany until 2013.They were in fact not. Perhaps they are now, since we imported all the Arabs, but there was not a widespread brothel network in the early 2010'.
>>18506826Same Anon, forgot to include something:>>Only 55% of Danes voted to outlaw dog brothels.The vote was not on dog brothels. It was on changing the law. Dog brothels existed, they still exist in your beloved China, but there was not a giant widespread network which was commonly known to the normal citizen. It was too niche to even be fully investigated.Anyway, back to the vote. It was done for other reasons, mainly to close the loophole in Danish law I have mentioned several time to prosecute bestiality more easily. those who voted against it didn't do so because they wanted zoophlia to be legal, they did so because they thought the flaw was with the Judicary system, not the legislative code.
>>18506184Racial and social inequality is an institution of hinduism that pushes lower castes to form crowded ghettos along riverbanks, worsening pollution. Usually, this kind of severe economic disparity causes a high population explosion, unlike Kashmir's low 1.4 fertility rate. Kashmir also owes its muslim leaders like sheikh abdullah that broke up the estates of wealthy elites, ending Dogra forced labor and redistributing land to the despondent people. The Brahmins used to hold all the power, and land before this.Because of this, modern Kashmir is fairly prosperous and has very little extreme poverty. Without all of this, a Hind Kashmir would have ended up looking like Uttar Pradesh. Which is not a pretty sight.Culturally also, Kashmir also owes its identity to its muslim dynasties, which planted the chinar trees, made it's gardens, the houseboats, unique architecture, pashmina shawls, traditional pherans, local cuisine and much more. The rich cultural history you associate with it comes from that. Culturally and economically, like other parts of India. Which is not a pretty sight.Maybe the Buddhists would've been better, but the Hindus and their Ilk genocided them.
