>We need our own country because we are slavs>We gonna name our country "land of the slavs">This is a very unique identityDo they really not have anything else going on?Seems like the most pointless identity. Country literally only exists to bloat the map with extra countries.
How are Slovenes any different from Croats?
>>18505574hotter women (slovenians)
>>18505569This is because they are just Slavic remnant populations against the German and Hungarian frontiers, and they define their identity mainly by being Slavic instead of German or Hungarian
>>18505576What caste of Indian men do they prefer?
>>18505577Bullshit, they are surrounded by other slavic countries, especially Slovakia.
>>18505586Slovaks did not meaningfully interact with Poland or Ukraine historically because of the mountains, with Slovenes I am honestly not entirely sure what determines the border between them and Croats, linguistically it is porous
Imagine if Croatia never united and there was also another country called Slavonia
>>18505630Balkans would look like the Holy Roman Empire map.
>>18505590Slovenia was influenced and ruled from Austria, while Croatia was influenced and ruled from Hungary. Their border is the border between the territories of Cisleithania and Transleithania
>>18505645>while Croatia was influenced and ruled from Hungaryonly half, the other half is italian and was more italian than north was hungarian
>>18505590>with Slovenes I am honestly not entirely sure what determines the border between them and Croats, linguistically it is porousWhenever you see an ethnic map where the ethnicities line up PERFECTLY with the borders of the state you can be sure it's a made up meme ethnicity, every time.Slovenians are South-Slav Catholics who were part of Austria.Croatians are South-Slav Catholics who were part of Hungary.Bosnians are South Slav Muslims.Serbians are South Slav Orthodox.
>>18505660>Whenever you see an ethnic map where the ethnicities line up PERFECTLY with the borders of the statewhich is nowhere in the balkans hence ethnic cleansing to match up demographics and borders
>>18505667We're talking about the difference between Slovenes and Croats, of which there is none.
>>18505660Interesting how Croats and Bosnians are the same identity on that map, but Slovaks and Czechs are seperate.
>>18505678Macedonians are basically just Bulgarians. It's just odd that they get to be their own identity. That's why they larp as greeks. They got nothing else to show for.
>>18505679South Slavs were continually united on almost all maps until the fiction of separate ethnicities took hold after WW2.
Prior to modern nation-state nationalism, the primary identification that people had were their religion, their kin heritage, and their loyalty to a king
>>18505579The white British ones that ruled India for centuries
>>18505569Please explain how should they call themselves when for thousand years they have been called "the slavic people who are part of larger non-slavic country".Your real problem is that you're too retarded to differentiate between those countries. You probably have the same problem with Austria/Australia.
>>18505660>>18505678>>18505686>A people so absent of autonomy at any point in their history other than 2 decades, that they perceive cultural differences stemming from their historical leaders as ethnic differencesGrim. Slavs seem to have a greater tendency for this sort of thing. You see a similar phenomenom in Ukranians thinking they're very distinct from Russians because they descend from cossacks and not urbanites.
I always thought of hungary as central european, but turn oit they are genetically slovenians.
>>18506061The birth of Ukrainians as a "culture" is actually interesting. Until the 19th century they were just called мaлopoccи́йcкий, "Little Russians", it wasn't an ethnic or cultural signifier in any capacity, it just meant the Russians who existed in the lands that were formerly part of the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth.In the late 19th century as part of the rise in nationalism generally in Europe Austria was in a dilemma, it had just been BTFOd hard by the Prussians in the Austro-Prussian war and with it Germany got hegemony over the German people.Austria accepted it couldn't continue to rule a German-supremacist bureaucracy and so enacted the Austro-Hungarian compromise, giving Hungary the same legal rights as Austria had. This isn't the only effect this had though, they also generally adopted a new policy in an attempt to keep their multi-ethnic empire together, they accepted all nationalist movements as long as they paid full allegiance to the Kaiser. This meant that there was a renaissance for all ethnic groups in their empire, Czechs, Romanians, and crucially the Slavs east of Hungary.Those Slavs didn't just want to swap one slave collar for another so they made up the Ukrainian fiction. They alone didn't perpetuate this myth though. It was extremely useful for both the Central powers in WW1 and the Nazis in WW2. Carving chunks of Russia off would be unreasonable, the act of a mad conqueror. Self determination for the "Ukrainian" people under German suzerainty though? That's good. That's liberation. The Germans had long since wanted Ukraine as the breadbasket of their empire. The population was rising exponentially in the 19th century and they were importing more and more food every year, largely from Russia. The Soviets in their naivety actually pushed the notion of a Ukrainian culture, korenizatsiia, imagining it would never be separate from Russia. The problems ensued when the USSR collapsed and this meme culture had taken hold.
>>18506124Nowadays with the war between the two, it seems that Ukranian culture will drift further and further apart from Russia, with any chance unification being long gone, exception being those who in the Donbass and Crimea
>>18505767No retard.The point is that they're surrounded by other slavic countries.Yet these countries exist because they are "the land of the slavs" (that's the literal meaning behind Slovenia/Slovakia). I am wondering why this even exists as an identity.What's the point of having a country built on the identity of being a slav when they are surrounded by other slav countries.And dont give me a fucking chatgpt response. If I wanted that I could have asked it myself. I came to /his/ because I wanted a more grounded explaination.And yes I understand that this argument can be made with for example Netherlands, Denmark and Germany, since they are all 3 germanic, but these 3 countries developed their own history, culture and national identity from thousands of years, A Dane isnt a Dane because he is "Germanic". If that was the case then Netherlands and Denmark would both call their countries "Germania" (land of Germanics), just like Slovenia and Slovakia.
>>18506124A country the size of Russia will never be a nation-state. It is inevitable that people from its vast corners will develop their own national identity.All you say is probably true but I still think a Ukranian identity was inevitable with time.Russia is essentially a colonial empire, but because the expansion did not happen overseas, it was easier to bind the land to the central government. Had Ukraine and Belarus etc been overseas territories, they would have developed their own identity just like the Americans did from the English.
>>18505586Slovaks were lumped into a country with a Hungarian majority and a ton of Germans and other ethnicities for most of their history. Their entire thing was “We’re subjects of the Kingdom of Hungary that speak Slavic and live in the mountains” for 1000 years. Also, despite the similarity in language, there was surprisingly little interaction with Czechia before 1919. The only real interaction after Great Moravia was some small incursions into western Slovakia and Czech influence on Slovakia’s Protestant bible. They have no common history between 907 and 1919. They barely interacted under the Habsburgs.
>>18506086Which makes them what, instead?
>>18506165>developed their own history, culture and national identity from thousands of yearsThose things are what separate these countries as well. You’re getting too fixated on the name. The names come out of their context as having existed as a minority in a larger country for most of their history. They still developed separate histories, cultures, and national identities (albeit late). It wasn’t based solely on being a slav, obviously. Being a slav is a key differentiator from the Austro-Germans and the Hungarians, but they’re also not the same as the neighboring slavs because of their history and cultures.
>>18506191Balkanites, SE
>>18506155Russia dropped the ball diplomatically, or rather, the US is just too good at color revolutions. Ukraine had a pro-Russia president until 2014, when he got ousted in a US backed coup (Euromaidan) That is when Russia invaded Crimea and set up the Donbass and Luhansk puppet states to keep the pressure on them.The mistake they made was not going in fully in 2014. Instead they gave Ukraine almost a decade to be fully kitted out with not only NATO equipment but NATO training. In 2014 they could have handed Ukraine's ass to them, the Ukrainians were still using Soviet surplus at this time, by 2022 they had modern weapons, modern training, actual combat experience from the Donbass conflict, and fortifications built. Russia really couldn't have picked a more retarded way to conduct it's invasion. Imagine if Hitler created a Danzig puppet state in 1939, kept talking about how they needed to solve the Polish issue for 10 years, all while Britain and France funded and armed Poland, and then finally invaded in 1947.>>18506180Russia's geography means there'll never be separatist movements like the CIA meme maps propose. Not because it's contiguous though, but because it simply isn't viable for parts of Siberia to be independent. For a US example you'd be talking about something like an independent Wyoming, and even that has more population density than Siberia. There simply aren't enough people to form any breakaway movements there.
>>18506124This war is unironically their very ethnogenesis
>>18506202Oh without a doubt. The Russians should have played their hand more than a decade ago. After 4 years of war the situation is beyond any redemption.Even assuming the Ukrainian defensive line collapses tomorrow and the entire country is overrun by fall there's no possible way the Ukrainians will accept being in a union with Russia now.
>>18506200>when he got ousted in a US backed coupso tired of this Russian bullshit being repeated endlesslythere was no fucking coup
>>18506205Euromaidan was a coup whether you agree with it or not. The lawfully elected president was removed extralegally, that is the definition of a coup.The US also backed and supported this coup, as evidenced by US senators going to support it in publichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPBRjtDxUVAAnd of course, the US deciding who would and wouldn't be in the new "democratic" government in leaked phone calls.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5kYou can not seriously tell me the US assistant secretary of state HAND PICKING who is going to be in the Ukrainian government isn't a coup. If you're supposedly pro-Ukraine you should be for the Ukrainian people picking their own government, not the US deciding who shall rule them as American puppets.
>>18506165>Yet these countries exist because they are "the land of the slavs" (that's the literal meaning behind Slovenia/Slovakia).Slovenia means 'land of the Slovenes' actually, as Slovenec is a Slovene while a Slovan is a Slav
>>18505678>We're talking about the difference between Slovenes and Croats, of which there is none.Slovenes are not Serbo-Croatians, we do not share Serbocroat cultural hallmarks like the kolo folk dance performed on the tambur (Turkish mandolin), their signature ethnic dishes of sarma and borek, their Christmas custom of badnje veće, their -vić patronymic surnames, their traditional personal names (like Veljko, Damir, Milica) and of course their Serbo-Croatian language.
>>18506124>>18506200>>18506215>It's another episode of Vatniks claiming that Ukrainian culture isn't real and that they're all Nazis while at the same time saying that they totally care about them and that they had to invade Ukraine in order to protect it's citizens from the imperialist NATO pigdogs
>>18505569Made up trianon countries that exist to spite Hungary.
>>18506315Slovenia was never part of Hungary, moron>>18506325the name Bratislava was made up by 19th century panslavists, sort of like Maribor in Slovenia. Ljubljana is an old name, dating back to the Middle Ages, tho
>>18506297>Ukraine could've been a neutral Russia-leaning democracy>westoids seethed and now it's a war-torn dictatorship with bussification and like half the population is dead or in exile>having a problem with this makes me a vatnikGreat powers, NATO and Russia alike, destroyed Ukraine
>>18505689This really isn't very true. You have plenty of pre-modern sources where people identify themselves as Croats or Serbs. I assume the same goes for Slovenes
>>18506240your father is bosnian
>>18506235>Slovenia means 'land of the Slovenes' actually, as Slovenec is a Slovene while a Slovan is a SlavNah, Slovenec means Slav in Slovene and Slovan means Slav in Panslavic discourse.It's the same in Slovakia where Slovak is the Old Czech term for Slav which is nowadays fully reestablished as the name of that ethnic group and Slovan is the replacement term for Slav. "Slovan" in both cases being a word that coexisted with the other and meant the exact same thing until the Panslavic period where this form turned out to be much more internationally consistent and recognisable among the various Slavic languages than the counterpart with k/c.>https://korpus.vokabular.ujc.cas.cz/view?ctxattrs=word&attr_vmode=mouseover&pagesize=40&refs=%3Ddoc.zkratkaPramene%2C%3Dfolio.cislo%2C%3Dkniha.zkratka%2C%3Dkapitola.cislo%2C%3Dvers.cislo&q=~Ts6hgtaTabyy&viewmode=kwic&attrs=word&corpname=STB&attr_allpos=all
>>18506459A Russian leaning democracy can't exist because Russia has no cultural or economic pull. It would be like having a Nigerian-leaning democracy.Even Armenoids ditched Russia for this reason. It's barely worth bringing up Orban getting the boot since Hungary was economically or culturally never Russian-leaning.So the only way to have a Russian-leaning state is to make it not a democracy and have a potato dictator like Luka in charge, the people don't want to be Russian-leaning. This would change if Russia was a normal state, in which case even Poland would be Russia-leaning, but Russia can't be a normal state because they want to be led by Andropov/Gorbachev/Yeltsin/Putin types who are only concerned with shekels and chimping out.
>>18506182>Also, despite the similarity in language, there was surprisingly little interaction with Czechia before 1919. The only real interaction after Great Moravia was some small incursions into western Slovakia and Czech influence on Slovakia’s Protestant bible.t.
>>18505683>That's why they larp as greeks.I genuinely thought this was a meme up until few years ago. I thought it they had some weird Slavomacedonian identity because it's obvious they themselves, their culture and their language are Slavic. Funnily enough they have been beefing with the Bulgarians lately about many things among them the Macedonian language which they claim (?) it has nothing to do with Bulgarian even tho it was clearly Bulgarian until they changed the alphabet a bit and added a lot of Serbian influence on the language post ww2. Is there any Slavic country or people that believe that bullshit?
>>18506165Are you done throwing a tantrum? No one ever claimed they have a right to exist because they are slavs. You made that up so you can get angry about it. They are independent countries because people there are independent nations. That's their claim for having a country. Also you're so unintelligent you don't even understand what those names mean. Slovakia doesn't mean "the land of the slavs" - it means "the land of the slovaks". "Slovak" doesn't mean "slav". The word has the same root, but it doesn't have the same meaning anymore. It's like saying "Rusyns just mean russians, because it also starts with rus-". Countries are named either after the land or after the people. Slovakia couldn't be named after the land, because the only name that was used for the region is felvidek, which is a hungarian word. And the people weren't known under any unique tribal names, because they were originally referred to as "those slavic people from hungary". Over the centuries the word "slovak" emerged for these specific people from this specific region with this specific language. They have become a separate ethnic group different from other slavic people.
>>18506622>Over the centuries the word "slovak" emerged for these specific people from this specific region with this specific language.It's just about a century at this point, tho. If you read the notes of Czechoslovak legionnaires, they're still talking about "Slováci" and "Uheský/Uheršťí Slováci".Likewise the locals were still freely using Slovak to mean Slav before Czechoslovakia's founding and education redefined the term for everyone. You can very easily see it with the mismatch in Slovák/Slovenka/Slovensko/Slovenčina which combines two different words for the general ethnonym and the rest. A natural development would net you either Slovák/Slováčka/Slovácko/Slováčtina or Sloven/Slovenka/Slovensko/Slovenčina.There's lots of other bullshit in your post as well.>Slovakia couldn't be named after the land, because the only name that was used for the region is felvidek, which is a hungarian word.This is wrong. Besides the fact that there's absolutely no problem with a foreign name in principle and many nations use such, you can easily check texts of people resettled from the place who had a very clear nomenclature both for where they're going and where they're coming from within Hungary. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Rusyns and their Гopнїцa (Horňica) versus the Hungarian plains (Dolná zem, whence Dolnozemský Slováci).Within Hungary these people were known first as Bohemians (until about the 13th century) and by Austrian times the crown referred to the land as inhabited by Czechs in the west and Poles in the east. E.g. Neue und Kurze Beschreibung des Koenigreichs Ungarn (1664) or Statistische Aufklärungen über Wichtige Theile und Gegenstände der österreichischen Monarchie (1795)Definitely not applicable for international recognition but not really because they were to them seen as "those slavic people from hungary".Late 1800s ethnographer noted they also called themselves "Touti" (from Tót) and "Slovyaks".
>>18506297they are both mongoloid nations and should be enslaved under Golden Horde
>>18506532>because Russia has no cultural or economic pullcurrently but that is no wonder, under kremlin like kleptocracy no country would have economic or cultural pull, not for longPutin and his cronies are just pawning what left of USSR legacy for a spare change, throwing under the USA bus all their old allies and sympathisers just so they plunder Russia little longer
>>18505683>>18506572ancient Macedonians were Slavic tribe ruled by greek royal family
>>18505574Only NW Kajkavian dialect Croatians are genetically identical.
>>18506530>Nah, Slovenec means Slav in Slovene200 yrs ago the word for Slav was Sloven, but still not Slovenec
>>18506061>A people so absent of autonomy at any point in their history other than 2 decades, that they perceive cultural differences stemming from their historical leaders as ethnic differencesSo you're saying that nations can develop differently due to living in completely different civilization (Slovenes in Germany, Serbocroatians in a Muslim Caliphate)? It's likelier than you think!
>>18505574Austrians
>>18505574Slovenes are not a Balkanic people unlike the Croats, Ottoman and Byzantine cultural and ethnic influences are almost completely absent in Slovenia, replaced instead by Alpine Germanic influences and some Italian ones. Though through immigration and intermarriage, Serbocroatian, Balkanic culture has also made its way into Slovenia.
>>18506124>Carving chunks of Russia off would be unreasonable, the act of a mad conqueror.>meat analogy>le madmanyep its a midwit.
>>18507298>>18506493
>>18507303no, both my parents are Slovene, Karahasanhodžić
>>18505660>Whenever you see an ethnic map where the ethnicities line up PERFECTLY with the borders of the state you can be sure it's a made up meme ethnicity, every time.How can you claim that from a single map? When the modern Žumberak region was settled by Orthodox Serbian refugees in the 16th century, it was detached from Austria and given over to Hungary so they could be together with their Croat brothers. When Croat nobles began exploiting ore mines at Čeber, it was given over to Hungary, even though later Slovenian emigration there caused the area to speak a dialect more closely aligned to Slovene than to Croatian, which is still the case. The dialects around the bend of the Sotla around Kumrovec, birthplace of Tito, are also noted to be closer to Styrian Slovene than to Croatian.
>>18506204>Even assuming the Ukrainian defensive line collapses tomorrow and the entire country is overrun by fall there's no possible way the Ukrainians will accept being in a union with Russia now.Isn't that the Russian strategy now? Bleed out Ukrainians until they either flee the country or get killed on the front lines.
>>18505569>>18505574The basic gyst of it is that after WWI, Woodrow Wilson and the west (the same people who invented Ukraine later in the 90s) created a bunch of different states to neuter German and Austro-Hungarian hegemony in Europe and prevent Europe from becoming a threat to them. We are living in the shadow of this.
More about the Slovenes: Slovenes have strong regional identities established from the mid 18th century onwards, almost all of which have their own dialect group and regional stereotypes. The Slovenian dialects have endured despite compulsory education, unlike many of the Croatian ones. The Croats across the border are not seen as belonging to any of these regions. There are current plans to federalize Slovenia after the Austrian model.
further, the Slovenes have no been called that for 1000 years as someone has claimed. Up until the 14th or 15th centuries this nations used to be known as the Carinthians (Korotanci) but German immigration to Carinthia, the old political heartland of the Alpine Slavs, led to a change in ethnic perceptions and the increased importance of the modern Slovenian heartland, in Carniola (Kranjska). Slovenes were also frequently known as Carniolans (Kranjci) up until the 19th century, but that name was ultimately considered too exclusive of the other Slovenes. Slovenes were also called Windische (Wends) by the Germans, denoting the hybrid Slavo-German culture present here as opposed to the rest of Eastern Europe.
As for the name Slovene, it was first used in writing by German mercenaries in a poem printed in Vienna in c. 1516 after they quelled the Slovenian Peasant War of the previous year. The Lutheran preacher Primus Truber (Primož Trubar) printed books in Slovene starting in 1550 in which he addressed his proselytism to 'his dear Slovenes' (moji lubi Slovenzi).
>>18507351>Slovenes were also called Windische (Wends) by the Germans, denoting the hybrid Slavo-German culture present here as opposed to the rest of Eastern Europe.All of Eastern Europe is Slavo-German. Some bits of it also add some bits of Byzantine influence but by and large it's all people eating German food, observing German customs and being ruled according to German laws. Anything that's not Russian was called Wendische at some point or another.
