Why is there a serious lack of archaeological findings from this place before the Persian and Greek contact? Did they have no weapons or sculpture or art before?
>>18507439India is really densely populated and prior to the second urbanization not very societally complex. So a lot of it might've just been looted or destroyed long ago.
>>18507523Doesn't mean there shouldn't be rich artifacts being discovered like the Nordic Bronze Age stuffThe historically high population should also mean there should be more shit being foundYou can probably handwave it by saying it does get found but Indians being Indians just sell the metal artifacts for scrap and throw other stuff away and their archaeologists are just incompetent fucks
>>18507439As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm an archaeology enthusiast, and the situation in many regions of South Asia is depressing due to two main factors: first, it's an extremely neglected area of study in those places, and the looting of archaeological sites continues, see Afghanistan, despite the Taliban government's promises to "protect" them. Secondly, India, Pakistan, Kashmir, and Afghanistan are not exactly the easiest places to conduct archaeological studies at the moment. Most recent excavations in the period over almost 30 years...In archaeology, the idea of "continuity of pottery" does not prove that there was no migration, especially since horses only appear after the Harappan collapse, and Painted Grey Ware is a new tradition, unrelated to Late Harappa. These cultures may represent Vedic cultures. Therefore, Painted Grey Ware represents a new cultural tradition, not a continuation of the Harappan style. You can read this article: https://www.academia.edu/38059410/A_Study_on_the_Painted_Grey_Ware>the two traditions have 'no stylistic and technological similaritiesFurthermore, several archaeologists have postulated that the PGW, Gandhara Grave Culture, and the Pirak site connect the migration from the steppes to the subcontinent. Pirak possesses pottery with parallels in the Yaz I culture of Central Asia, connecting to the Andronovo sphere. North-south corridors through Afghanistan reinforce the route, but excavations are scarce. Remember that there is evidence of Andronovo presence at Shortughai III.
>>18507584Or I could also add to my post something that is absolutely no news to anyone: "archaeology" in India is not taken seriously by absolutely anyone. It's not just biased, but the articles are complete rubbish.. for example, you'll find exorbitant C14 dates for various sites, like Sinauli, where there will be claims of "4000 BC" and other such absurdities. But archaeogenetics is a nightmare for these people, isn't? There are researchers in Indian academia who seriously believe that Sanskrit originated in India. And I'm not kidding.
>>18507584>>18507602>Mleccha revisionism LOL Everything you wrote is biased and unscientific nonsense. Everything! There was no migration of Sintashta, Andronovo, Srubnaya, or any of these cultures based on irrelevant fragmentation that proves any invasion. There is NO material culture of this in India, zero! There is no connection with the Steppe. IVC is older than previously thought, from around 6000 BC, with many supposedly "Indo-European" practices. Idiot! There is no archaeological evidence of invasion. Where are the chariots? Where is the evidence of battle? And how do you deal with the discovery of Yamnaya ancestry in the Chalcolithic Zagros? Indo-European comes from the Zagros, whose ancestry was the same as IVC. These samples demonstrate the most recent Iron Age Iranian artifacts, as well as samples from Sinauli and the southern megalithic period, dating from between 2000 BC and 300 BC.
>>18507617???? You simply used ad hominem arguments and judged my arguments as "false" without saying exactly why they are wrong. That wasn't an argument. And what exactly is the purpose of your image? I've never seen anyone model steppe_MLBA in this way. And what do Yamnaya or Zagros have to do with this? We are dealing with archaeology and specifically its connection to steppe cultures and how this correlates with the Vedics Please stay on topic.
>>18507654You have threatened his izzat and now he is flailing away in a pathetic attempt at a counter
>>18507662>>18507654Nazi lol Are you that weirdo who lies about Europeans calling themselves Aryans? It's clear from the way you write.We have no evidence of any migration from the steppes to India, much less of "Andronovo," Sintashta, Srubnaya, or any of that nonsense that weren't even real cultures, and there's no evidence that they were Iranian and spoke Indo-European. BMAC probably spoke Iranian and was the source. Besides, these Vedic Indian cultures PGW, OCP, and CHC are ALL LOCAL and are Harappan, not "Indo-European" These precise Andronovo of yours had no stratification or division of labor and lived like smelly illiterates with cattle going up and down. Good luck invading Harappan with forts and giant walls, you idiot Regarding the Yamnaya, this proves that they were not from Europe but from the Zagros, who in turn were related to the IVCs through CHG-iran_N ancestry. Learn more, eurocentric
>>18507671nta but I can smell the raw cortisol leaking from your stinky, poopy jeet pores
>>18507439because they threw it all into the Ganges
>>18507685More likely some trollI doubt Jeets have the brainpower to come up with an argument beyond "ur mother OF"
>>18507685>>18507693You still haven't responded to my arguments: Where are the carriages? Where are the Kurgans in India? Why do SWAT Valley samples prove female migration? Insulting me and making same-flag comments hasn't changed anything.
>>18507602>But archaeogenetics is a nightmare for these people, isn't?I don't understand this thinking. Hindi is an Indo-European language and any sort of Indo-Aryan migrations into India would be so far back that if would literally be the fabric of the nation and it's not like there's a bunch of blonde haired blue eyed people openly lording over the rest of the population, everyone is pretty clearly of the same "race" and no one would qualify as White. So why is it such an issue?
>>18507718>it's not like there's a bunch of blonde haired blue eyed people openly lording over the rest of the population, everyone is pretty clearly of the same "race" and no one would qualify as White.That's what happened
>>18507721Wouldn't Indo-Aryans look like modern day Iranians/Persians? Pale skin relative to the Indian subcontinent population, but dark hair and eyes (maybe light eyes are seen every now and then)? The Yamnaya didn't have light eyes from what I remember reading.
>>18507730More like South Slavs probably. (Robust) Pontid phenotypes.
>>18507671>Nazi >eurocentric>idiotad hominem>Are you that weirdo who lies about Europeans calling themselves Aryans?I'm not. But I've learned a lot in these threads and I'm convinced that Europeans called themselves Aryans long before Indians did.>We have no evidence of any migration from the steppes to India, much less of "Andronovo," Sintashta, Srubnaya>and there's no evidence that they were Iranian and spoke Indo-Europeanhow do you intend to support that? Indo-Iranian is a branch of Proto-Indo-European, divided into Indo-Aryan and Iranian from Proto-Indo-Iranian around 2200 BC. As far as i know, The "connection" is proven by regular cognates and by phonetic innovations unique to this group, such as the fusion of the vowels _e, _o, _a into _a_ and the liquids _l and _r into _r. This serves as a basis for later debating whether the Harappans were Indo-Aryan. See Kümmel 2022 cited as a reference. And we know that Sintashta and Andronovo spoke Proto-Indo-Iranian because, as the historical cradle of the Uralic languages is the Ural region, the fact that they coexisted with and absorbed terms from Proto-Indo-Iranian proves that PIIr had to be spoken right next door. Sintashta is located precisely in the southern Urals. Nothing to with "bmac". See:https://share.google/WCMOLYwkDm4BY0Zre>Besides, these Vedic Indian cultures PGW, OCP, and CHC are ALL LOCAL and are HarappanDidn't you read the article I linked above? The author specifically addresses this. Late Harappan pottery and PGW have opposing firing techniques, and there is no firm evidence that they coexisted according to Uesugi:>>18507584PGW would be a new tradition, not a Harappan continuation. Green 2020 argues that Mature Harappan society was egalitarian, without palaces or royal tombs typical of a state, unlike what is cited in the RV.
>>185077532/2Regarding the chariot: the RV's specifications on how to build a chariot perfectly match the first chariot with spoked wheels found in Sintashta Leia (cf. Chechushkov & Epimakhov 2023), meaning that it came from elsewhere with the shepherds of the steppes and is not an indigenous innovation.I never understood that argument... do you even know how chariots were made in the Bronze Age? Have you read the RV? High-performance chariots require specific Acacia (khadira) and Sissoo (śiṃśapā) to withstand the mechanical stress the movement. See RV 3.53.19. Irish literature mentions chariots perhaps as much as the Iliad, but we haven't found a single example to date. Does this mean that the Irish didn't actually use chariots? The same goes for the various representations of chariots throughout Central Asia dating from the second millennium in stone; these peoples used them, even if unfortunately we don't have any examples. Furthermore, you are simply lying. Genetics has already established that the ancestral origin of the steppes in India is specifically the MLBA steppe, represented by the material cultures of Andronovo and Sintashta. How exactly do you explain this ancestry? R1a-Z2125 is also a lineage of the Z2124 branch from Central Asia, characteristic of modern Kyrgyz and Tajiks. Both lineages are phylogenetically distinct from the R1a-L657 branch of South Asia, dominant in modern Indians, and we can trace it back to the CWC R1a-M417 and downstream variants. What is the problem here?
>>18507765>>18507753LOL No. You haven't proven anything here and you used low-quality semantics and articles. The migration steppes in India were done by women, not "steppe_MLBA" Vedic samples of swat are not white, much less do they prove any migration. I already explained this in the other thread you ignored The migration was female, not male Besides what is this crappy map supposed to prove? The first ones were from the Zagros, as proven before. bmac was Iranian, not androtrash who was 1.40 meters tall hahahahah. White skin was criticized in India. Aryan is not European>>18507730No. They looked modern Punjabs
>>18507775I accept your concession. Really.I have been neglecting my girlfriend in order to respond to you, and there's a lack and any genuine desire to learn or to share knowledge. You have not read a single word I have written and continue to base your arguments on points I have already addressed. Why do you persist in behaving in such a petty manner? The so-called Aryan invasion was not mediated by women; that is an error frequently made in certain Indian circles. The BMAC was not a monoculture, and we have no concrete knowledge of the language they spoke..Nevertheless, the archaeological and genetic evidence establishes with certainty that they were neither Iranian nor Indo-European.>The first ones were from the Zagros, as proven before. What are even talking about?>bmac was Iranian, not androtrash who was 1.40 meters tall hahahahah. what?>White skin was criticized in India. >Aryan is not Europeananything else? >>18507730NTA You are conflating distinct issues. The Yamnaya were not "dark-skinned" and certainly did not resemble present-day Indian populations. As indicated by academic tools such as HIrisPlex, "intermediate" pigmentation corresponds to the complexion of modern Mediterranean populations. I would further note that "intermediate" accounts for nearly one third of the pigmentation variation across European countries, with the exception of the British Isles. Moreover, the Yamnaya did not migrate to India. The relevant groups were Andronovo populations or related Andronovo para-cultures, which geneticists designate as Steppe_MLBA. Accordingly, we can infer Vedic pigmentation on that basis. See picFrom David Reich Lab https://share.google/p2cd7HlOBftgWLlxG
>>18507812Here, you European (Mleccha) nordic "aryan"Andronovo culture males were only 1.40 tall hahaha >Mesopotamian ancient DNA reveals Iron Age consolidation of diverse Bronze Age genetic structure following resettlement>The development of complex urban societies in Mesopotamia fundamentally shaped human history, yet the genetic dynamics underlying this process remain poorly understood. We generated ancient DNA from 17 individuals spanning the Bronze and Iron Ages at Bakr Awa, one of northeastern Iraq's largest ancient settlements located at the border between Mesopotamia and Iran. Genome-wide analyses reveal northern Near Eastern ancestry drove a major genetic shift between the Pre-Pottery Neolithic and Bronze Age, with local, Levantine, Zagros, and Caucasus/Yamnaya-related ancestries subsequently shaping Bronze Age population structure. Integration of ancient DNA with stable-isotope analysis captures multigenerational dynamics, identifying the Zagros mountains as the likely recent origin of Caucasus/Yamnaya-related ancestry – complementing archaeological and textual reconstructions of a Hurrian ethnolinguistic presence at Bakr Awa. >Following Late Bronze Age abandonment, Iron Age reoccupation involved genetic consolidation rather than population replacement, demonstrating that cultural transitions need not entail large-scale ancestry transformations.LOL They were from Zagros, not from Europe.
>>18507765>>18507753>>18507584I liked your posts, you're very dedicated to this. I hope /his/ has more people like you.
>>18507439probably because the concept of archaeology doesn't exist in India. Like use your fucking bran.
>>18507832It was difficult for me to locate this "source". Nevertheless, a top-of-funnel profile published an ""article"" from a website reporting the discovery of a new Andronovo settlement that contained the remains of an atypical woman who likely did not live past the age of thirty due to a condition related to gigantism. Ok? How is this relevant to our debate? Andronovo males were not 1.40 meters in height. I did not find any serious anthropological study citing this cipher it literally appears solely from a single online article discussing the aforementioned discovery. Since it is not a academic article, it should not be taken as authoritative. Now, is this what you are referring to as “Yamnaya comes from the Zagros”? Its a preprint, and if I understand it correctly, the paper merely notes samples from Iraq carrying R1b... and? What's the main point here exactly?
>>18507850This Indian is repeating a trend from xiiter where this preprint supposedly found R1b in Iraq, but it's literally a sample with super low coverage to be relevant.
>>18507850>>18507857Transtigris/Mesopotamian samples challenged or finished the FAKE Sintashta/Andronovo/Indo-Iranian connection and of course the CHG-IRAN admixture present in the continuum between the Eastern Caucausus-Caspian Sea-Northern Iran-Central Asia-BMAC and the Zagros/NW Iran/SW Caspian Sea samples are decisive to explain the steppe admixure in Yamnaya >Integration of ancient DNA with stable-isotope analysis captures multigenerational dynamics, identifying the Zagros mountains as the likely recent origin of Caucasus/Yamnaya-related ancestryLOL you lostI was correct again.
Fucking hilarious that Nazis call Indians shit for being brown skinned but simp over fair skinned Iranians yet it is Indians who have much higher ancestry from Bronzeage steppe pastrolists, greater R1a percentages and probably linguistically and culturally closest to them.
>>18507439because there was no poopy vedic age, just mythos.>>18508142they were right as we can see who eats shit drinks piss scams and rapes
