1/3It has become very common for people, particularly from India but also from many other countries with identity complexes like "Latin" America, to use pathetic Yamnaya reconstructions or charts from the amateur and highly inaccurate Genetiker tool to prove that they were supposedly brown.. to project a 3300 BC population onto your own personal insecurities and invent a narrative where “brown Yamnaya conquered white EEF European women” saar/o algo to inflate your ego, that claim is false for several reasons. As I said before, Genetiker garbage is one of the worst tools out there, and he himself admits that his prediction for that sample is poor. serious and testable academic tools like HIrisPlex-S exist. You just need to understand the HIrisPlex-S system instead of imagining things. The categories are biased toward lighter skin tones, and there aren’t many “very pale” people in the world to begin with. The categories are biased towards lighter skin tones. There aren't many "very pale" people in the world. Also, categories like "Dark" don't represent what we generally consider "dark," but rather a specific range of numerical results, converted into a word. Do you understand? For example, something around 15 to 20% of modern Sicilians are classified as "Dark" according to this system. I think nobody would be surprised by this, but it's worth remembering that "Dark" also refers to a modern European ethnic skin tone in this tool.
>>185134312/3Keep in mind what "dark" skin looks like in the HIrisPlex-S system that is used to predict phenotype in all these ancient DNA studies. I have my doubts how accurate the system is, but "dark" basically ranges between these two tones:How accurate is HIrisPlex? You tell me. CM HIrisPlex-S patched for missing alleles giving an accuracy rate of 30%; i.e., coded for Uyghurs and Chinese for dark to black skin. But anyway.
>>185134323/3Finally, it's also useful to note how many Europeans, not just Mediterranean ones, possess the skin tone cataloged as "intermediate" among the Yamnaya. It's a common "shade" throughout Europe since at least the Neolithic period, very common in Mediterranean countries and even in Poland. They weren't "dark-skinned," nor did they resemble Indians or some insecure neo-Latin. They lived in Ukraine, had a European appearance, and were phenotypically described as European in these craniometric studies. And lastly, this obsession with conquering "white, blonde, GAC" women is false because: 1) the Yamnaya specifically had no direct contact with the GAC; it was the CWC; 2) most European farmers also had the same skin tone as the Yamnaya and the CWC.
bonus:
>>18513439>>18513432>>18513431What would be a good representation of what the Yamnaya look like today? Nothing against reconstructions, but real people are always better.
>>18513444>but real people are always better.I agree. Although not in terms of phenotype, limiting ourselves to skin tone issues, something like that. Perhaps even "lighter".In fact, most people up until the middle of the Bronze Age had that appearance.
so, are you guys aware of how ridiculous the existence of darkwtich is as a whole? like, really, no archeologist, no medic, no geneticist, no scientist ever suggested the shit darkwitch suggest, is literally something that only was created as a cognitive dissonance... no. as a matter to discuss at all in 4chan becaus eof darkwitch spam, this is not a logical situation.the consensus is clear; yamnaya were northern european related, more so were corded ware.anatolian farmers were middle easterners and southern european.ANE was a mostly west eurasian group related to upper paleolithic european natives and jomon, this group preceded amerindians and the northernmost europeansindia was conquered by sintasha, who were northern europeans as well.these are simple consensus, there is nothing to argue here, the conclsusions are always clear, no rape fantasy, there is nothing to even discuss.the whole argument is literally invented by darkwitch making convoluted charts and lying and people falling or even engaging into his shittalk, is literally like discussing against a guy talking about dragonsall studies and geneticists proved the nordicness of indoeuropeans and the superiority of white people. and now we are just getting our board shitted by an indian tranny that entered a meltdown state for 3 years because he can't cope with those simple factsis simply insane. darkwitch created an alternate reality where we argue about anatolians being white or not because he needed to project somehow when literally all archeologists correctly state they were middle eastern and italicthe level of cognitive dissonance is simply insane, and its entirely a fabricated one attained through spam
>>18513468lol cope and seethe dude darkwitch was a pioneer and genius when it came to archaeogenetics and he was never once was wrong
>>18513431>The Yamnaya were not "brown"They didn't live in America, so they weren't white.
>>18513431I believe the old european brown is not the same as arabs / african admixture browns these days and rather more like the whites who can naturally tan really hard to where some even do have darker skin even without tan, while still having naturally light hair and eyes and Yamnaya was probably like that too.
>>18513431>>18513432>>18513439we have been over this using modern samples. Dutch people score "intermediate" despite being near translucent White.>>18513484>>18513468Darkwitch was wrong on everything and claimed ANE was mongoloid and then left xitter when the Tarim mummies were shown to be 85% ANE and 15% chinese and were described by both Western and Eastern Academics as "phenotypically West Eurasian and European".
>>18513498Trump's real skin colour is pink as you can see around his eyes and ears.
>>18513441So they were swarthoids, and /pol/ was wrong again.
>>18513535Lusotropicalism and Duginism won.
Wow. OP left several people bewildered after all, huh? No matter how hard you try, you'll never be part of Europe.
>>18513560Europe is brown.
>>18513513CorrectSee how it took me less than 20 minutes to understand how Hirisplex categorization works. The tool isn't very good for some modern populations either. See how it classifies high proportions of Mongolians, northern Chinese, and Siberians as "dark." It probably doesn't work so well with more divergent ancient populations either, and the older the population, the less accurate it will be. But it's what we have. I hope for better ones in the future. All these limitations are well understood by the tool's creators—it's all described in the manual. Literally. Lazadiris even specifically cited an anthology with the "Mediterranean skin tone," which, as you stated, is present in places like the Netherlands, as well as Poland and, to a lesser extent, the British Isles.>>18513468Indians are desperate after inevitably accepting that their language was brought by shepherds from the steppes who ultimately came from Europe, so they use Yamnaya and based it on Genetinker's shitty tables >u guys were invaded by brown people tey were brown and they conquered white womin? saar See pic..Other articles have tested its accuracy. The limitations are well understood by the researchers who use the tool and highlight general and specific issues in their published work, often in supplementary materials.
>>18513585>anthologyanalogy
>>18513431>The Yamnaya were not "brown".The real question is if they had a brown underclass, not if the elites were brown. If you can't add nuance to the conversation, why even bring it up?
>>18513431AryYamnaya, red box includes the J2b L283 Core Yamnaya sample (I10206) from Crihana Veche, Moldova. 1.81 meters tall, Robust Proto Europoid. Buried with an arrow = Warrior Class Core Yamnaya. Loaded with Afanasievo ancestry, IBD matching w/ Core Yamnaya. Chad, pretty, massive bull
>>18513715Actually, "brown" isn't even the real point here. Fuck them Dravidians. My point is, was it a homogenous society? Probably not, if they were an empire that did lots of conquest. They would have accrued a large underclass of many ethnicities, and you're stupid if you think it's just "white vs brown" in this case. There are many distinct ethnicities that are shades of white and yellow, and skin color isn't the only distinguishing factor between races.
>>18513737EEF girl:>Hiii 3: wow, you're tall!>look at those arms, what a manly face. My friends and I are wondering if.. you'd like to join us for some fun today :D If you don't want to, you don't have to, but.. II..can cook something if you want. I'm a good cook and I'm still young, so..sorry for looking at you like thatThe h2ér-yo replies, with his pastoral and mystical language:>Yes, *gʷḗn
>>18513757>point is, was it a hoogenous society? Probably notIt probably was. Most of the samples we have are homogenous with each other, samples from Samara (~3200 BCE) has documented descendants 2,600 km east in southern Siberia and 2,200 km west in Central Europe. The Logkas samples also show IBD with Yamnaya samples. Now, if you're asking if their slaves had distinct origins, I can't answer with certainty, but I read with someone yesterday talking about how the Proto-Indo-Europeans had a word for slave and it was related to sedentary people.
>>18513779Its a libtard, ignore him who become her
>>18513757They were white.
>>18513785Probably
>>18513795why are they so angry
>>18513807The cattle died of some disease, the chief's sister died in childbirth, and to make matters worse, Winter is coming and there's nothing to eat. Another long-distance migration will have to be made for the third time this year. Again.The priests blame the people's lack of sacrifice others blame the ghosts of the agricultural peoples returning to haunt their lives. Who knows?
>>18513812Sounds like a sitcom
>>18513816I would watch it. And you?
>>18513769Cute love story cuteeeee
>>18513769I want the continuation of the story. And then? What happened? Did they get married? How did she introduce him to her Neolithic parents? Did they accept him?
>>18513824Only if there's a comic relief priest character and long suffering king character
>>18513832An authentic comic relief priest would be a proto-enaree and that's transphobic you chud
>>18513830Judging by their harsh and violent culture, with cattle rustling and pillaging every year, in addition to their rough appearance and "institutionalized" wife-stealing, it was a real-life 50 Shades of Grey. But in 3000 BC, It wasn't so pretty.
>>18513830nta,He never met her parents because he kidnapped her.That's how Anatolian languages were spread.
>>18513838>>18513837Literally this. Lol
>>18513807
>>18513839She accepted her fate because steak and dairy products were better than porridge and moldy bread. She fell in love after he made her bathe in the river to wash the fleas off who killed her younger siblings.
>>18513838>>18513837You treat them as if they wouldn't like being kidnapped and abused, right? Just like today, unfortunately, women prefer far more "rapey" porn than men. At degrading levels... the most acclaimed women's literature is very clear. Now imagine a guy without even our modern ethics of right and wrong in the fucking Bronze Age?? But surely the farm boys from Neolithic villages couldn't compete with steppe bandits. Some things don't change. Is it sad? Yes. But that's life
>>18513850Romantically speaking, when they were at the river, it was already getting dark and the Ukrainian steppe can be cold at night, so he offered to warm her up in a makeshift tent. She accepted. They looked at each other and then embraced. The next day they woke up together and she had never felt so protected before. They fell in love.
>>18513807Those rode across the entire planet only to find theyre the only White people in existence.
>>18514076
>>18514079
>>18514081
>>18514076>>18514079>>18514083>>18514079Thank you very much for your contribution! The *koryos is, in itself, extremely complex, and a thread about it would be very cool. It's interesting to think that the Hittites, one of the most syncretic peoples that ever existed, still went to the trouble of preserving something as archaic as the cult of the wolf, PIE or "PIA
I don't know why these mentally retarded white nationalists have such a problem admitting that WHG and the Yamnaya were indeed brown looking with much darker skin than Europeans today, whose lightness came through mixing with GAC and heavy selection for these traits in the Bronze and Iron Age. Yamnaya were also lactose intolerant. These things can change rapidly through selection, but they are mentally stuck in a 2015 racist blogspot level understanding of genetics and the Indo-European phenomenon thinking in memes of a blond haired blue eyed MS paint gigachad mounted on a horse swinging a sword in one hand and a jug of milk in the other. Brainrot. That isn't what happened and it's proven, WHG and Yamnaya did look brown. Now continue making yourselves look even more ridiculous than you are.
>>18513769In reality...>Daddy! Where are you?! Help! Someone help me. Has anyone seen my father??Said the girl from the EEF, While fire and disturbing screams consumed a village. the girl's wounded father found her:>My dear daughter, listen carefully, grab your brother and run as fast as you can, he said, trembling.The frightened girl, crying and aware of what was happening, hugged her father as Srendy Stog or Yamnaya men approached shouting, wearing black wolf skins and under the influence of "plants". The father made one last attempt to defend his family, grabbed an axe and tried to stop the invaders. The girl fled with her father and, in the background, heard him scream. After minutes of escape, amidst death, pillaging and fire, the capture of slaves began. The girl, even trying to escape as much as possible, was found. She tried to flee, but her brother was taken from her and she was dragged into a caravan with other women. Other women are dragged into the forest, where only their piercing screams are heard. The girl knows what happened and all she can do is cry. For her father, brother, and mother.Looking around, there are mothers crying. Wives crying. Fathers, sons, grandparents... brothers. All dead. Daughters stripped of their dignity. Families destroyed. And why exactly? Because of some 20s vandals and their gangs?Sad, isn't it? These are the idiots you idolize. They never contributed *anything* to Europe, the Indo-Europeans are like those Middle Eastern and North African gangs in France and England. Wake up to life, damn it. There's no honor in that.Shitty rapists
>>18514100>I don't know why these mentally retarded white nationalistsNot reading. But your read my thread and you lost.
>>18514100Yamnaya people were white.
>>18514124Wow, I almost cried reading this, but then I remember how violent the EEF was, just like the Indo-Europeans, and in some cases, perhaps even worse. Compared to those Mexican cartels did you know about the ritualistic cannibalism of children that was widespread in the EEF world? Or their obsession with skulls and beheadings? Or perhaps mass graves with signs of torture of people of all ages? They weren't any better. Do you really think the WHG lived in harmony with them when they entered Europe?? As you said, grow up
>>18514124This lunatic really thinks that the EEF peoples didn't target rival communities or commit atrocities..kek EEF world is marked by violence on an American Latinx level
>>18514152I personally started laughing out loud while imagining the person angrily typing all that out
>>18514161There's a girl who hangs around here whenever the subject of "EEF" is mentioned, I think it's her.
>>18513439The Irish are literally the whitest population on planet earth.
>>18513769They would buy women of course. Along with magical copper weapons.
>>18514124There's more archaeological evidence of trade and integration than there is of violence.>They never contributed *anything* to Europe,Average height of 175cm.Horses.Language.Beef.But by far the most important... Patriarchy.
>>18514083
>>18514300
>>18514301
>>18514253Okay, but you don't need to invoke a leftist academic here. The distribution of the Yamnaya suggests that they may have lived in relative peace, alongside farmers, since they did not prefer the same type of land. And don't forget what happened in the British Isles. If the Yamnaya settlers did not adapt in a way that allowed them to expand into non-steppe lands, their impact would have been self-limiting.
>>18514242Fanfic
>>18514304>>18514301>>18514304>>18514300And? Ireland and Germanics were matrilocal and matrilineal
>>18514253>EEF y-DNA lineage nearly wiped out>EEF material culture wiped out by Bell Beaker derived material culturesIt clearly wasn't some vast sweeping conquest, the 1000 year timescale and things like Etruscans and Latins speaking an EEF and PIE-descended language despite being almost indistinguishable genetically prove that, but both sides of this were absurdly violent. IMO based on what I know about archaeology and how barbarian tribes in the classical era behaved is that aside from some sweeping conquests like the initial invasion of the Danubian Basin and the actual genocide that happened in Britain it was mostly a back and forth churning of peace and war where friendly tribes intermarried and stuff like >>18514124 is what happened to the loser regardless of who they were. The PIE side won out in the long term but both sides would only have been dimly aware of the PIE/EEF conflict we see looking back on it.
>>18514317>>18514317NTAThe problem is that these supposedly "friendly tribes" left no surviving languages and had their cultures replaced. So what happened to them? If they were truly allies, mixing while singing around campfires and sharing food, their disappearance wouldn't make sense.The latest study on the Neolithic of France and Iberia noted that the appearance of steppe ancestry "coincided" with the Neolithic decline, even though the authors devoted only three paragraphs to Indo-Europeans. Strange, isn't it? Things were far more violent than post-1960s archaeologists and geneticists admit. The CWC literally burned forests in areas that were originally EEF territory to create pasture. Also remember: contrary to older assumptions, Indo-European migrations included women, not just wandering men.
>>18514304>>18514301Yes. It's a Indo-European tradition
>>18514346Bingo.The problem with modern archaeologists is that they expect to find mass graves containing thousands of people at every archaeological site before even considering the possibility of violent expansion. And when there are cases like Great Britain, this should simply be treated as an exception The most viable view would be to say that these migrations were indeed accompanied by violence although perhaps it wasn't only that. But now the real question is, what happened in the case of non-violence? Coexistence? CWC and GAC coexisted in Poland for a time, but eventually the latter was replaced, so exactly in these cases? We cannot appeal to a narrative of "interactions" when the EEF cultures were replaced and their languages are lost forever. Those settlements in Helladic Greece with fire signs, some link to Indo-European migration even though the Mycenaeans only had 15-20% steppe. Humans will always rape each other. That's generic.
>>18514351>But now the real question is, what happened in the case of non-violence? Coexistence? CWC and GAC coexisted in Poland for a time, but eventually the latter was replacedYes. And speaking of that, and following up on what he shared>>18514301there's a really cool article I downloaded that deals specifically with this. I'll share some pages.
>>18514358
>>18513431>not "brown"obviously, you'd have to be retarded to believe otherwise
>>18514360Also:>the reason for the massacre is unknown, it is possible that it was related to the expansion of the Corded Pottery groups, which may have resulted in violent conflicts" "All individuals had been brutally killed by blows to the head"I can't post the source because 4chan thinks it's spam, but look for it: >Unraveling ancestry, kinship, and violence in a Late Neolithic mass grave
Marriage
>>18514346>>18514351>The problem is that these supposedly "friendly tribes" left no surviving languages and had their cultures replaced. So what happened to them? If they were truly allies, mixing while singing around campfires and sharing food, their disappearance wouldn't make sense.I didn't say anything like that, I was pointing out that it was a slow process and it's not believable that they were always at war all the time but they clearly did fight a lot and the PIE lineages clearly won those wars in the long term. The>EEF y-DNA lineage nearly wiped out>EEF material culture wiped out by Bell Beaker derived material culturesright at the top of the post should probably have clued you in that I wasn't doing this thing.>left no surviving languagesExcept that isn't true. I mentioned the Etruscans but other examples are the Sardinians, Raetians, Vascones, and maybe Minoans. You're basically making the opposite error, assuming it was all genocidal tribal warfare instead of none.>The CWC literally burned forests in areas that were originally EEF territory to create pasture.The timeline of this is not clear and the evidence base is weaker than you're treating it. It's equally possible the EEFs practiced slash-and-burn agriculture and their populations collapsed when they exhausted their farmland.
>>18513431define brown. to me, someone with fitzpatrick type 1 skin, most europeans including scandinavians are brown.
>>18514100post hands
>>18514377>I mentioned the Etruscans but other examples are the Sardinians, Raetians, Vascones, and maybe Minoans.None of these languages can be definitively classified as “EEF.” Etruscan, for instance, exhibits a substantial Indo-European substrate, and Paleo-Sardinian is poorly attested beyond hydronyms and phytonyms. “Vasconic” is not an attested language; Howard Hayes Scullard suggested it may have been Indo-European, with plausible links to Illyrian and Celtic. The Minoan language may derive from a CHG or Anatolian source rather than an EEF one. It is important to note that the Minoans were not solely Aegean in origin, but rather a composite population of Anatolian Neolithic, Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer, and Peloponnesian Neolithic ancestry. Their could be related to any of these options.>The timeline of this is not clearActually, the evidence is quite clear. During the Early Bronze Age, the Corded Ware engaged in large-scale forest burning across Northern Europe to create open grassland.Even if that were not the case, the evidence presented above indicates that violence was far more prevalent than you want to believe. and it remains unexplained why these supposedly "friendly tribes" would have abandoned their languages and cultures.Moreover, it is convenient to assume that these tribes necessarily represent the apennine nd Minoan peoples. The Etruscan and Rhaetic languages, if indeed related, are poor examples, given that Etruscan material culture derives from the (proto) Villanovan culture, directly derived from Urnfield,
>>18514538>Howard Hayes Scullard suggested it may have been Indo-European, with plausible links to Illyrian and CelticThe Rhaetic*
