Where the FUCK did they come from??
>>18516043I was about to create a thread about this. Maybe autism is interconnected? I'm literally reading about it. I think we have some interesting etymologies for their names, and most apparently consist of ethnonyms related to Greek, Anatolian, and Sicilian. Basically a combination of Mediterranean pirates
>>18516043I'm very sleepy now, but tomorrow I'll write about some interesting things I've discovered about them, and apparently there is some connection, even if indirect, with the Urnfield culture of Central Europe.
>>18516043the sea, dumbass.
>>18516053So they just spawned from the water?
>>18516060They lived on the water. They were people of the sea, hence sea peoples.
>>18516043Cetina culture, Illyrians, Albanian ancestral tribe
>>18516043The Egyptians literally called them by their ethnic names which indicated their geographic origin, such as Lykka (Lycians), Karkiya (Carians), Peleset (Philistines), Shekelesh (Sicels), Sherden (Sardinians), Weshesh (Oscians), Ekwesh (Achaeans), Denyen (Danaans) and Terresh (Tyrrhenians), also known as Hau-nebut (Ḥ3w-nbwt), "Inhabitants of the Aegean", one of the Nine Bows (Greatest Enemies of Egypt). Your own pic depicts them as Minoans/Mycenaeans.The most curious thing is that before the Bronze Age Collapse (that, remember, happens between 1200 BC and 1150 BC), Ramses II himself faced coastal incursions and mercenaries from the Sea Peoples (the Sherden of Sardinia) as early as the second year of his reign in 1278 BC i.e before Bronze Age Collapse. Decades after Ramses II's long reign, in 1178 BC, Pharaoh Ramses III defended the empire from a massive land and sea invasion by the Sea People.In other words, the Sea Peoples did not cause the Bronze Age collapse, they had already been navigating the Eastern Mediterranean since before 1250 BC, but only went en masse to Egypt in 1178 BC when all the civilizations around them fell. My theory is that after local powers to which they were vassals, such as the Hittite Empire, collapsed because of the Bronze crisis, this created a power vacuum that led them to ally to conspire with an alliance to to replace their place. However, because they were disorganized due to the lack of a single/centralized leadership, they also ended up declining. This is why the Aegean Palatial Civilization fell and the Greek Dark Ages occurred.Ramses III also said that they came from islands, not coastal nations, of Mediterranean.>He says:>"Foreign countries conspired on their islands. At once the lands were cleared and the people scattered in conflict. No country was able to resist their weapons; from Hatti, Qode, Karkemish, Arzawa, and Alashiya they were immediately wiped out. A camp was set up in a locality of Amurru
>>18516130>They humiliated their people, and their land had never faced such a situation. They moved toward Egypt, and a barrier of fire was placed before them. Their confederation was formed by the Peleset, Tjekker, Shekelesh, Danuna, and Weshesh, lands that united. They laid their hands on these lands, with confident and hopeful hearts: ‘Our plans will succeed'.">And the Pharaoh continues:>"They reached the border of my lands, but their seed no longer exists, and their hearts and souls are finished forever and definitively. Those who advanced together at sea had a great flame before them at the mouth of the river, and a whole barrier of spears surrounded them on the shore. They were dragged to the shore, surrounded and defeated, killed and torn to pieces from head to toe. The ships sank, and the merchandise fell into the water."
>>18516043Like most steppe peoples they were a confederation and tribes of that area that were robust, warlike, patriarchal. The best bet is some kind of amalgamation of southern europeans/proto greeks with IE culture. Steppe shenanigans, only on the sea instead of dryland.
>>18516163The Sea Peoples literally accelerated the collapse of the Hittite Empire, the greatest Indo-European kingdom in the Middle East, allowed the Levantine city-states to become independent of them and the Egyptians, and the Philistines switched from Linear B/Proto-Greek (?) to Canaanite and worshipped gods like Dagon.
>>18516130>ShekeleshOi vey
>>18516130>the Sea Peoples did not cause the Bronze Age collapseEven as a casual history enjoyer I don't think I ever heard the Sea Peoples being the root cause of the BAC. The narrative is usually that something over time worsens the stability of settlements, increasing the amount of pirates/raiders who then hit also weakened larger powers. Like the displaced Anglo-Saxons (consisting of many tribes), who had occasionally attacked Roman Britain, invading for good after Rome basically retreats and building their own kingdoms (that never reach Roman "levels" of culture). >islands, not coastal nationsI would not take their depth of geography too serious. The Philistines and Lycians are probably not islanders (as far as anyone knows)
>>18516043The Isle of Patmos. They ransacked the civilizations Afrikans built and left behind desolate wastelands.
>>18516043They were probably not a single group.
>>18516219>I don't think I ever heard the Sea Peoples being the root cause of the BACWhat can cause this misconception is thinking that the Sea Peoples emerged during the Bronze Age Collapse.>1345-1325 BCE: The Lukka raid the Nile Delta, pharaoh Akhenaten complains in Amarna Letters about the fact with the king of Alashiya (Cyprus), accusing him of the fact that some of the pirates were also cypriots and he let them raid his territory, the king answers that he's surprised that his men would do such a thing and tells him to send him the men so he can punish them>1278 BCE: The Sherden raid the Nile Delta, the pharaoh Ramses II captures them and uses them later on as mercenaries and royal guards during the battle of Kadesh against the Hittites>1213–1203 BCE: Under the reign of Merneptah the Libyan king Meryey proclaims war on Egypt, he attacks from the West with a vast army composed of foreign troops: they are Sherden, Shekelesh, Ekwesh, Lukka and Tursha, the invading army is defeated in the Battle of Perire: the pharaoh takes 9,000 prisoners, 6,000 soldiers were killed>(Bronze Age Collapse begins)>1180-1170 BCE: Ugarit is destroyed, some letters from Ugarit, which were written shortly before the destruction of the city tell us about the correspondence between the king of Ugarit and the viceroy of Cyprus, the cypriot viceroy informs the king of Ugarit that some "enemy ships" sailed to his mountain residence to threaten him, he then adds then they departed to attack Ugarit, he warns him of that and adds not to blame him for the attack (suggesting that the invaders, or at least some of them, might have been cypriot)>Meanwhile Egypt is under attack, this time some of the peoples who invaded under Merneptah do not appear anymore, but instead of them some new names are listed among the invaders: The Peleset, Denyen, Weshesh and Tjekker, who invade with the Shekelesh both by land and by sea, after having "set up a camp" in Amurru
>>18516235
>>18516256>These two invasions are the only ones to have been depicted in battle by Egyptians, the invading soldiers, especially those with a feathered headgear, are strikingly similar to some contemporary depictions of warriors from Enkomi (Cyprus). Ramses III informs us has that Hatti (The Hittite kingdom), Arzawa (Western Anatolia), Alashiya (Cyprus), Qode (Cilicia) and Karkemish (An important city in northen Syria) had been "cut off", he tells us that he utterly crushed the invading armies, among the prisoners he list the Weshesh and the Sherden of the sea, that he hadn't mentioned before among the main invaders this time>1100 BCE: We know from the Onomasticon of Amenope that the Tjekker, Sherden and Peleset settled in Canaan>1080 BCE: We know from the tale fo Wenamun that the Tjekker ruled over the city of Dor>The Sherden are still employed as mercenaries in Egypt and are mentioned in a wide variety of documents, they are also given a lot of lands in Egypt itself, they assimilate quickly and by the 9th century BCE they disappear completely from historical record
>>18516043A bunch of different places across the Mediterranean. They weren't one single entity
>>18516043They was just pirates and shit. After the Greeks wrecked themselves defeating Troy there was nobody left to keep them in check so they started raiding and sacking everywhere.
Indo Europeans from all over Europe that still had a weak sense of overarching unity , experienced a population boom thanks to the advance of the bronze age Med civs, too many folks.Exact same thing as germanics and steppe bros in late antiquity benefiting from Rome's success, then backfires in overpopulation.
>>18516130I think the Sea Peoples were a similar phenomenon to the Vikings. There is no one clear cut explanation for why the Viking Age began, seems to be just down to the increasing development of societal organisation in Scandinavia at the time, likely influenced by the slow osmosis of culture all over Europe over the centuries since the collapse of the Western Roman empire. The widening of the geographical horizons of the post-Roman Germanic kingdoms during the 7th and 8th centuries was not exclusive to the mainland, it also affected the tribal communities outside of formerly Roman territory. With the Sea Peoples, civilization that had been centred exclusively in the Middle East for millennia drifted west in the same process of osmosis through trade, and there creating the same conditions which led to the Viking Age: a larger, denser, more interconnected world, but not one that was not yet fully unified by culture or religion. The decentralised nature of tribal communities meant they were not rooted to land in the same way urban civilization was and so could migrate, raid, and colonise the lands of larger civilizations which were becoming fractured by civil wars and economic problems and couldn't properly defend themselves. Essentially the same process that allowed the Vikings to take advantage of Francia's internal strife and the lack of a unified central power in England.
>>18516043I’m reading Iliad right now and in the introduction the translator says that they were most likely Achaean raiders after they conquered Crete, since they have certainly raided coastlines on the eastern Mediterranean and the name for Creteans disappears about the time where they and the mentions of “sea people” appear. Does that sound likely? I’m not much of a historian.
>>18516504The Viking Age can be seen, in part, as a continuation of very old social patterns in Northern Europe. The Neolithic Revolution, which introduced agriculture, sedentary lifestyles, and later the foundations for the emergence of the first cities, states, and more complex civilizational legal systems, reached Northern Europe later than Southern Europe and the Near East during the Funnelbeaker culture (4100–2800 BCE). As a consequence, certain social structures based on clans, warrior chiefs, and networks of personal loyalty remained influential for longer in Scandinavia. The Nordic peoples also possessed a long maritime tradition dating back to the Nordic Bronze Age, participating in trade networks that reached the Mediterranean and maintaining indirect contacts with the Mycenaeans. In this context, the acquisition of wealth through war, plunder, and maritime expeditions continued to be socially prestigious.Since political centralization, the formation of strong states, and the monopoly of organized violence occurred relatively late in Scandinavia for reasons I have already mentioned, practices that in other regions had already been incorporated or restricted by state institutions remained legitimate for longer among the Norse. Thus, the Viking Age can be interpreted as the late manifestation of warrior traditions inherited from ancient Indo-European societies, enhanced by the new technological, geopolitical and economic capabilities of the Middle Ages.
Corsica and Sardinia and maybe some from Italy. You can tell because the Egyptians depicted the sea people in artwork wearing Corsican and Sardinian style bronze helmets.
>>18516504I think its just that the norse culture and religion permitted and encouraged raiding and that English monasteries had a bunch of very valuable cider that could be sold on the mainland for 10x its worth in Britain with nobody guarding it right next to the water.
>>18516043>In the Odyssey Menelaus went to Egypt after the Trojan War and gathered much riches>Odysseus tells a "lie" about going to Egypt and sacking its citiesThe Sea Peoples was the Greeks and their neighbors. Way too much coincidence here for it to be otherwise.
>>18516043>Who the fuck were the Sea Peoples?DISPLACED PEOPLES FROM THE HELLENIC PENINSULA, AND FROM THE LEVANT, AFTER THE CATACLYSM THAT ENDED WHAT WE KNOW AS «THE BRONZE AGE».
>>18516043>The dude in the background to the left of the main sea peoples chad is wearing a boars tusk helmet like Odysseus is said to have wornnice touch
>>18516060Yah. The Egyptian marketing is a bit deceptive. They’re just freeze dried brine shrimp eggs that hatch into little critters when you put them in water. Apparently they’re pretty good for destroying Bronze Age Mediterranean civilizations though. Some folks use them to feed their pet fish.
>>18516043Most likely some type of Greco-Anatolian people. They were highly likely had created colonies in the Levant, actually. Book related. They conquered enough to introduce various motifs from their religion all over the place including ancient Israelite religion.
The Philistines, generally identified with the Sea Peoples group called the Peleset, sette in the southern Levant around 1200 BCE, they appear to have practiced a mixed religion that combined Aegean traditions closely related to some elmeents of Minoan religion with local Canaanite beliefs. Biblical sources associate them with the god Dagon, though we have way more evidence that they worshipped deities common throughout Canaan, such as El, Baal and Astarte. El become fused with elements of other gods and those figures in later Isrealite religion. We know for example that Philistines shared with other sea peoples the worship of a storm God, Baal. These features combined with Yahweh from southern Caanan, a wilderness God.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6hF2VTWwwo
>>18516130I don't believe anyone beyond Sicily could have invaded so far
>>18517546>THE CATACLYSM THAT ENDED WHAT WE KNOW AS «THE BRONZE AGE»In other words the Trojan War aka World War between the Mycenaean Greeks and their allies against the Trojans and their allies including the Hittites. Both sides were so weakened by the war that their civilizations collapsed and chaos ensued.>inb4 the Hittite records don't mention this. That's because the Hittites got their butts kicked and the scribes were ordered not to write about these defeats.
>>18517735NO; A CATACLYSM.
>>18517738Yes the Sea Peoples came from Atlantis in search of a new home after their island sank
>>18516043South East Asians, hence the name
>>18516043There's no mystery. They even made a movie about one of the Sea People invasions back in 2004. Of course the armor they're wearing is inaccurate but it always is in these films.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLOLxyBFwAE
>>18518516This. The first Thai ladyboys were made from the defeated Hittite army.
>>18517652This genuinely made me lol. Well done, anon.
>>18516043https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorians
