>richest man in the world >had no access to markets, luxuries or tech
>Emperor Caracalla, who ruled an area roughly composed of all of Western/Southern Europe, the Mediterranean, and Britain, had to specially request that fresh fish be delivered to him while he was in Syria and threaten to kill an entire town by the next morning>I can pull up my phone right now and have sushi at my door in 30 minutes
I think whether or not he was the wealthiest person in the world depends on how you define wealth. He was wealthy in liquidity but since he had no access to a real economy, it meant he had no solid assets. You can have all the gold in the world but if you can't buy anything with it because nobody is selling anything, then your gold is worthless. It's why he had to travel to Arabia just to have chance at flaunting his wealth.
>>18519860>He was wealthy in liquidity but since he had no access to a real economy, it meant he had no solid assets.He did. He was the total sovereign ruler of the land though.In theory you could maybe say the same for the sovreign of British crown at the empire's peak but you'd really have to ignore the countless individuals or families in the UK at the with equal or larger wealth/power and none of the social, political and cultural obligations tied to being the Head of Government in that era like Cecil Rhodes. The Royal Family as an institution was super rich, but the actual King Ed himself was a pea in comparison and is paid what is effectively an allowance.For Mansa Musa it's more straightforward but since the Mansa and the state were a 2-in-1 kind of deal in this case it's safer to say Mali was super rich, but that would mean having to give due credit to an African state economy which is apparently verboten online. Both cases operated in total different time periods and economic markets but it demonstrates how political institutions operate.>You can have all the gold in the world but if you can't buy anything with it because nobody is selling anything, then your gold is worthlessHe did purchase the services and advice or locals and foreigners in the empire.>It's why he had to travel to Arabia just to have chance at flaunting his wealth.He traveled for Hajj.
>>18519849>richest man in the worldUnfounded claim. He was pretty rich, but there's no reason to believe that he was the richest man in his or our time.>had no access to markets, luxuries or techObjectively false.>>18519860> real economyWhat is a "real economy"?> no solid assetsSlaves, salt, land?> You can have all the gold in the world but if you can't buy anything with it because nobody is selling anything, then your gold is worthless. He would've compensated his royal court with gold. The sahelian states have been intentionally limiting the circulation of gold so that it may be used as currency since at least the 11th century.
>>18519849they did, and it was an early case of dutch diseasegold in mali empire was easy to mine, no need for elaborate mine shafts or deep excavation, and they had army of slaves to do it for free. why develop an economy when you got free gold cheat and can just use it to buy things from other countries?
>>18519911> and they had army of slaves to do it for free.Last I checked, the Malians did not use their slaves to mine gold or other resources (they at least weren't the majority of the workforce). It was instead done by communities on the outskirts which were given some level of independence. They were largely just a status symbol + resource to be exported.
>no access to marketsu wut m8? He's famous for flooding markets with gold across North Africa en route to Mecca
>>18519982His Hajj is famous precisely because Mali itself was so isolated.
Always felt like it was some made up bullshit to instill confidence in the young niglets I grew up in nyc and in elementary school we devoted a whole three days to this guy, the niglets ate it up
>>18520035>Saar you can't have confidence because of your history just like everyone else does, only we canKys faggot
>>18520035>three days to this guyIs there even enough known about Mansa Musa to where one could spend three days being taught about him? > Always felt like it was some made up bullshit to instill confidence in the young nigletsAs a racist myself, know that his Hajj and it's impact are simply exaggerated (Warren Schultz only found evidence for a small, ephemeral inflationary episode) and we only know that he was stinking rich, not that he was the richest man (Mali did not keep written records).
>>18519849>Had to go to the magic box for Hajj>Decided to flex his immense wealth along the way>Centuries later whiteys are fuming about it for some reasonWhat a gangster.
>>18520503The point flew over your head. His hajj was irrelevant, when he went back to Mali he didn't keep importing goods because he couldn't. What is that gold worth if you can't use it? Are you really rich if your money can't be spent?
>>18519849His story not real.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nzafFycvJc
>>18519853You give tip?
>>18520899I am extremely racist, and this video is literally just pop-history for chuds. Stop shilling it.
>>18521051He of course makes some valid points, as is impossible to not do when debunking pop-history (There's no reason to believe that he was the richest man + his Hajj is clearly exaggerated), but outside of the obvious, it's an extremely poor video due to both insufficient research and sheer bias.In example: he cherrypicked oral sources to support the retarded idea that Mansa Musa did not pay back his loans due to going bankrupt and blowing his money like a retard when that idea as a whole can be easily debunked thanks to the fact that Ibn Khaldun spoke to a few Malian officials while Mansa Musa was still in living memory. They give him nothing but praise (I recall one of them actually crediting Mansa Musa with *stocking* the treasury) and, despite having a negative opinion of his brother, Mansa Suleyman, credit him with no wastage either. Instead, financial irresponsibility was attributed to his grandson, Mari Djata the second, who died one year before speaking to his main source (A Qadi from Gao, which was in Mali's territory) and marked the beginning of Mali's decline.Another example is how he concludes that Mali's gold was solely alluvial due to them not having complex mines despite earlier and contemporary sources attesting to the digging of pits to obtain gold and other resources.
>>18519922You're acting like we have any idea of how they workedThe only contemporary source about medieval Mali are al-Umari and Ibn Battuta and none of them described how they mined goldEverything else = wanton assumptions by modern historians
>>18519872What is his legacy? Did he leave behind any great infrastructure projects? Any innovations that we still use today? Is there anything we can point to and say "Mansa Musa did this"
>>18521128> You're acting like we have any idea of how they workedWe do.> The only contemporary source about medieval Mali are al-Umari and Ibn BattutaNot true.> and none of them described how they mined goldLast I checked, picrel literally comes from al-Umari.
>>18519872>Mali was super richthey were a few groups of mudhut villages that had gold on the surface of the earth. if your "currency" of gold there cant buy you anything then its worthless.
>>18519982literally never happened. made up story with no historic basis.>>18520035>Always felt like it was some made up bullshit to instill confidence in the young nigletsit was >>18520899>>18521051>no argument>"Stop shilling it"oof, truth hurts. sorry you waz never kangz.
>>18521082>Another example is how he concludes that Mali's gold was solely alluvial due to them not having complex mines despite earlier and contemporary sources attesting to the digging of pits to obtain gold and other resources.obviously if you know something is valuable to sell elsewhere and you see it on the ground you will also dig a couple meters into the ground too with your hand. that doesnt change anything, they werent mining shit.
>>18521278> they were a few groups of mudhut villagesThis became true long after Mansa Musa's reign.> if your "currency" of gold there cant buy you anything then its worthless...Except gold did buy you things in the sahelian states.>>18521283> literally never happened. made up story with no historic basisThis is objectively false, lol.>no argumentI literally gave specific examples of some of the retarded claims made in the video and refuted them in my reply.>>18521290> They weren't mining shitI really don't care about that. You're missing the point.
>>18521307>nuh huh
>>18521331>>18521278> if your "currency" of gold there cant buy you anything then its worthlessal-Bakrī’ in the middle of the 11th century describes the king of Ghana limiting gold's circulation so that it may be used as currency. This tradition would continue far into the future with the Asante, and is suggested to have bled into Mali, seeing how Mansa Suleyman was recorded as compensating his royal court with gold dust by Ibn Battuta.
>>18521375
>>18521450Salt was preferable as currency, though gold still had value.
>>18521496>>18521450Better example.
>>18521331>>18521278> they were a few groups of mudhut villagesThis was roughly the territory of Mali during the time of Musa. Ibn Battuta describes different areas as being cities, towns, and villages, and he also calls the home of Suleyman a palace.
>>18521528Shit, forgot the pic.
>>18521331>>18521283Is testimony from both Malians and North Africans not sufficient?
>>18521540*regarding the occurrence of his Hajj and his great spending while doing so
>>18521155According to "AI":
>>18521591Opulent
Are you guys genuinely retarded? Everything we know from Mansa Munsa comes from a series of fantastical tales, written for the Arab/Persian world. The tale of Mansa Munsa is not actual history. It's fiction. And it showcases what Arabs thought about Black people (God didn't bake White people enough in the oven, so they are White and underbaked, Arabs have a perfectly cooked color like God intended and Blacks are overcooked)Blacks are unwise and foolish with their wealth. The later scene where Mansa Munsa even lost all of his supposed wealth and had to take out massive credit only shows how idiotic he is supposed to be in the story. You guys are genuinely braindead. Leftist historians basically succesfully shat into your brains and made you believe in Ancient Wakanda with rich Wakandan kings, who crash the economy wherever they go.No wonder Jews started the stereotype that being blue-eyed means to be incredibly naive.
>>18521662> guy calling other people retarded is themselves retarded.Fucking kek. Damn near everything you said is wrong. No one in this thread was even making Mali out to be Wakanda or whatever.
>>18521662> stereotype that being blue-eyed means to be incredibly naive.I have literally never heard of this in my entire life.
>>18521591Spectacular!!!
>>18521591Ask your AI more details about the "scientific" scholarship in medieval Timbuktu.Ask it to name the alleged famous famous mathematicians that lived there.Ask it to cite the scientific discoveries that happened in medieval Mali that supposedly rivaled those of medieval Europe...etc
>>18521591>"one of the most prominent universities in the medieval world"Ridiculous claim.First of all it wasn't even an university and was never refered as such in any historical sources until the 1890s, when a French colonial administrator called the Sankore madrasa a "university" in order to make France's new colonial possession look more impressive.And secondly, not even Dubois had the nerve to claim it was among the top "universities" of the islamic medieval world (let alone the entire medieval world).
>>18521528>>18521529The actual geography of the Mali Empire remains almost entirely unknown.Your ebin wikipedia map is just based on loose assumptions.We don't even know what the capital city of Mali was (neither the name, nor the location...) nor the actual name of the Mali Empire ("Mali" is an exonym given by arabs).Thinking we know its exact borders is ridiculous.
>>18521375>al-Bakrī’ in the middle of the 11th century describes the king of Ghana limiting gold's circulation so that it may be used as currency.That's just proving the point you were trying to refute.
>>18521736> Thinking we know its exact borders is ridiculous.I said "roughly" for a reason.> "Mali" is an exonym given by arabsIs this even true? I believe it's still up to debate, with some suggesting that the name "Mali" came from the Mande word for hippos.
>>18519849I don't know if everyone is stupid or just continuing an ongoing comedic bit, but things only have value relative to other things. West Africa had disproportionate amounts of gold to other commodities. Ergo, having a lot of gold in West Africa did not make one "rich" in the same way having a lot of gold in Europe or the Middle East would.
>>18521766The value of gold in West-Africa being artificial does not confirm anons point; It could still buy you something, which directly contradicts what was said.
>>18521768>I said "roughly" for a reason.Yeah but it's beyond "roughly" in this caseThe entire coastal half (the one without any named city) for exemple is assumed with virtually no evidences>Is this even true? I believe it's still up to debate, with some suggesting that the name "Mali" came from the Mande word for hippos.Will probably never be settledIn al-Umari and Ibn Battuta's writing, "Mali" seems to be the name of the main city of the Empire.
>>18521797When someone says they've been waiting "for ages" do you think they literally mean thousands of years?Obviously gold wasn't worth nothing at all, the point is that it wasn't worth nearly enough to qualify Mansa Musa as the richest man in history.
>>18521278This is incorrect. The Ta'rikh al Fattash gives a larger description of Mali than "groups of mudhuts"
>>18521626Looks pretty fuckin cool to me
>>18523125The modern version of this building was made in the 1900's by locals. I don't think Mansa Musa is actually credited with any of it's iterations.
>>18523125I hate that they don't paint these.
>>18519853Why did he threaten to kill the town?
>>18523125That was built in colonial times.
>>18519849The blingiest nigger is still a nigger.
>tfw Mansa Musa was the ancient equivalent of rappers flaunting their dollar bills
