Has emily wilson's odyssey completely replaced every other translation? When i read the odyssey the standard translations were fagles and lattimore. Today there are reports that bookstores only sell the emily wilson translation and it has become the standard for educational curriculums. Some say you cannot find other translations outside the internet, comparing the situation to the story 1984, in which they government destroyed records of the past in order to rewrite historyHas this modern translation really become the standard reading for the odyssey?
The standard should be Pope's Iliad and Odyssey.
Reports from where, by who?
>>18520440twitter users
>>18520446EOP Xfags absolutely btfo. People who can read in literally any other language and/or know how to download books in public domain can't stop winning.
Can anyone explain what even the point is of altering an ancient text to conform to 21st century feminist standards? If she's trying to make a point on how the society that produced the Odyssey was sexist, wouldn't it make much more sense to translate the text as accurately as possible, and then just add moralfagging footnotes and annotations?
>>18520473>a guy who can't read ancient Greek but wore a prop helmet to shill his chat gpt translations>>18520476>AI crying about technicalities and being mean to poor little Odysseus because he's, ironically, complicated!
shouldn't this be on /lit/
>>185205331/3 of the book is her translators notes explaining exactly what choices she made and why.
>>18520425First pic I ever saw of her where she looks kinda cute. Probably those little Hershey kisses pointing out.
>>18520425>emily wilsonShameless jew whore that thinks she can change history with her pen, I hope she gets pitched into a bonfire along with the rest of her people.
>>18520536>but wore a prop helmet to shill his chat gpt translationsLike it or not Emily Wilson's version is the last actual translation of the Odyssey that there will ever be. Everything else will be slop. Anyone can crank out/hallucinate a translation with AI with ease now.
>>18520672What did she change?>>18520679There's been 2 others since Wilson and Mendelsohns was well received.
My favourite part of the bimonthly Emily Wilson disk-horse is that those most frothingly angry at her clearly haven't read her works. Just flying into a rage because someone else told them to.
It doesn't really matter. Scholars read Homer in Greek. They might use a translation before they get a PhD. For anyone not involved in Homeric studies it doesn't matter. It does not matter what your average person reads out of Homer, the Bible, or any other ancient text because for them the text is just fantasy entertainment slop like the Lord of the Rings. Details don't matter, so just read the old translations. Everyone knows they're wrong but that's fine. It's not like you care.
>>18520728>Everyone knows they're wrongI agree but I think you should post some examples of howwith all the shitting on Wilson's choices I want to see some shitting on the alternatives
I hate this ugly sheboon so much. Nuke nu-hollywood
>>18520732Mendelsohn translates it as roundabout ways. Like Odysseus is a fucking road junction or something.
>>18520732I'm not in Homeric studies. I just know from experience when comparing conventional translations of Ancient Greek to what I can manually translate with the aid of an up-to-date dictionary shows that most translations are woefully imprecise and outdated. You will basically find no up-to-date, fluent, literal translation of anything unless it's a single paragraph or sentence that's the focus of a paper. Translation of ancient text is a painstaking process.With Homer the situation is really bad because that dialect is loaded with archaisms and it seems like every year there's a paper discussing an obscure word or phrase and its etymology.
>>18520699>Just flying into a rage because someone else told them to.And you defend Wilson because someone else told you to
>>18520813Do I? Weird, because I've actually read both her Odyssey and Iliad and they're fine. Have you?
>>18520817>they're fine.Source?
>>18520822My own opinion. Imagine such a thing as having an opinion of your own, not passed to you by someone else and filtered though 27 layers of irony.
>>18520831What is your opinion based on?
>>18520852My reading of both books. You have done that, right?
>>18520857Not an answer
I haven't read it since high school but I will never forget how in the Iliad (we read Fagles), Diomedes or Patrochlus or Telemonian Ajax at one point plunges his spear down the throat of a Trojan and uses it to lift him out of his chariot like a fish caught on a hook.I was also bewildered when people very smugly talked about how uhm actually did you know the Greeks were the bad guys and the Trojans were good. Usually because Hector is a family man and a patriot, while Achilles is tempermental and vindictive and vain and refuses to accept Agamemmnon's apology, and the Greeks are supposedly just there for plunder.It wasn't just deconstructionists or feminists who would say this. This was like white nationalists would say! Richard Spencer or Dominique Venner would make this point, presumably as a prelude to urging the reader to embrace being "evil" the way the Greeks in the story are evil, according to our alien and slave Christcuck morality.It was baffling because it was like they forgot about the Judgement of Paris. Paris stole Menelaus's wife! The Greeks are on a morally just mission! The amoral, dishonorable gods, Aphrodite and Ares, are on the side of the Trojans.You could say that the triumph of Achilles over Hector, and by proxy Apollo, represents the victory of individual rage and vain glory over order and civilization, maybe an admission of guilt by the Greeks of the truth of the real historical siege, that it was a pirate raid during the Bronze Age Collapse. But that's not a question of morality. The Greeks were right to take back Helen.
>>18521891Pro-Trojan sentiment comes from antiquity, not just modern times.The Romans saw themselves as Trojan descendants, that's what the Aeneid is about. Even from the Greeks themselves you had Euripides writing a sympathetic lament about the Trojan Women.
>>18521891>>18522050I would love to appreciate this more but women still have rights and it's destroying our civilizationit's hard to enjoy anything while on this slow-speed train wreck
>>18520455>being a polyglotpsychological colonization
>>18522063When the women go down, we'll probably go down too. In all prehistoric matriarchal cultures, whenever they inevitably got wiped out by patriarchal ones, very few to none of the matriarchal cultures men were allowed to join Team Chad. If we use the early Bronze Age "Aryan" invasion of Britain as an example, about 1 in 10 of the native men survived post-invasion and had descendants. So buckle up!
>>18522348Nigga, women were "down" for nearly the entirety of human history and the average man wasn't a virgin
>>18520860The poltranny, xir brain fried by almost a decade of culture war, is baffled and frightened at the idea of reading a thing and then forming a unique and individual opinion of the thing without a grifter-influencer telling them what to think.
>>18522362Ok so Wilson's translation is good because /pol/ doesn't like her? I figured
>>18520425Is Stephen Fry's version any good? I liked Mythos well enough
>>18522364Who said that?
>>18521891You unironically don't understand these epics and ancient Greek culture. >The amoral, dishonorable gods, Aphrodite and Ares, are on the side of the TrojansBy the end of the war all the gods are against Greeks and nearly all of the heroes are punished, often by dying in a pathetic way.
Imagine still believing the greeks amassed 100,000 soldiers and destroyed the richest city in the east for a woman lol
>>18522446I don't believe that I believe that's what was in their national myth>>18522440>urp you are not a member of le respected Greek clubAnd then all you can offer is an irrelevant point that does not address the question of good and evil in the Iliad itself. Aphrodite Ares and Apollo help the Trojans. Hera and Athena help the Greeks. This is basic indisputable shit that Richmond Lattimore and Robert Fagles would agree with. The battle between Achilles and Hector is somewhat of a proxy between Athena and Apollo. Athena, who promised military prowess to Paris and was rejected, prevails. The pure warrior spirit she divests into Achilles by putting burning fire on his shoulders, triumphs over Apollo's civilizational order embodied by Hector.
>>18522356Half of men who have ever existed haven't reproduced, regardless of time period, so your statement is pretty much crap
>>18521891Another retard projecting his wignats delusions on ancient history
>>18522364Maybe try to read it for yourself first
>>18522525So no actual answer?
>>18522497Yes because of deaths of war, famine, plague, etc., which is unrelated to women being kept down
>>18522521I was actually critiquing the standard white nationalist reading of the Iliad - where they accept the framing of Achilles as "evil" but argue that our concept of "evil" originates in alien, Christian, resentful, slave morality, and that the evil warrior aspect of our nature should be embraced. You'd know that if you'd read my post
>>18521891"The Trojans were the good guys" is millennia old, it was a cornerstone of Roman identity.
>>18522541I know, that's been repeated several times. I wouldnt find it weird for a Roman who's read the Aeneid or a Greek who read Euripides and learned Odysseus threw infant Astyanax over the walls to feel that way. I'm saying that this sentiment emerged organically among classmates who didn't need any secondary text to develop that interpretation. They just had an urge to subvert or deconstruct the tale. They were uncomfortable with truly noble protagonists. The Greeks may have been temperamental, vain, greedy, plundering seekers of imperishable glory, but they were noble. Their quest was a chivalric one.
>>18520425People who can't recite it in the original greek are subhuman anyway, who cares
>>18522547The Greeks weren't noble, lol.
>>18522483Athena represents civilization and cunning in warfare. Ares represents barbarism and primitive strength. Athena of course defeats him. >warrior spirit The Greeks literally win this war by trickery and even Hector is killed because Athena tricks him.
>>18522585Achilles and Hector is Athena versus Apollo, not Ares. Apollo represents civilization and order, that's why he identifies with Troy in the first place. READ MY POST BEFORE REPLYING HORY SHITTUThe wooden horse isn't part of the Iliad and it wasn't Achilles's idea. Hector is killed because Achilles beats him. What I'm trying to get at is the "lesson" of the Iliad, like if you were a high school teacher trying to sum it up for a bunch of listless groids. If you were asked the meaning of the Iliad, and how it reflects on the Greeks, you wouldn't bring up outside material like the wooden horse or the fate of the doomed Greek heroes on their way home in the Odyssey. The victory of the Greeks is the victory of Hera, the sovereign, and Athena, the warrior, over Aphrodite, the lover/cultivator, and Apollo, the civilizer. It is the price Paris pays for scorning sovereignty and military prowess at the Judgement. It is the triumph of priests and warriors over the Third Estate, the peasants and their family man Hector and his pretty boy brother and their nice clean sedentary life in the hustle n bustle of the city.
>>18522585Athena tricks hektor but the thing is he's supposed to die. They already know how this is supposed to end and they're supposed to help move it along. hector was delaying the inevitable by running
>>18522096fucking kek
>>18522611I read your post, you're wrong. For some reason you ignore Ares fighting on the side of Trojans. The epic cycle is essentially about how the heroic age ended.
>>18523116>ignore Ares fighting on the side of TrojansI was the one who brought that up in the first place lmfao. Your first reply was responding to me pointing out Ares sides with the Trojans.He sides with them, but Troy is not an embodiment of Ares the way it embodies Apollo. He's not as important. Poseidon is convinced to side with the Greeks, but that doesn't mean Achilles is Poseidon's hero.The Trojans, by stealing away Helen and refusing to return her, shoulder the blame for inciting war, it's their "fault" that blood is being shed. Thus Ares, who lusts for indiscriminate carnage, identifies with them.Ares fights the Greeks when he's not supposed to, he loses, he runs to Zeus, and Zeus castigates him for his wanton bloodlust.It reflects poorly on the Trojans that Ares sides with them and that should be evident to you in Zeus's lecture to Ares.
>>18522446True. If it was for a man, it would be more believable
>>18522547>>18522576It's probably a more accurate translation to make the Greek fellas rate their heroes in terms of their greatness rather than their nobility.It's big dick energy they liked, which naturally included being an absolute dick, rather than the whole set of attributes associated with nobility.
>>18520425>Has emily wilson's odyssey completely replaced every other translation?No>When i read the odyssey the standard translations were fagles and lattimore. They still are, any University that's actually assigning you Homer is going to pick one of those two, or something like Samuel Butler's translation because it's public domain>Today there are reports that bookstores only sell the emily wilson translationAre the reports coming from a crack den, by any chance? Every bookstore sells the Fagles translation at least, most big chains still sell Lattimore's and will have some kind of print on demand version around too.>it has become the standard for educational curriculumsAmong high school English teachers, maybe.>Has this modern translation really become the standard reading for the odyssey?No, unless you think normalfaggots determine what "the standard reading for the Odyssey" is>>18520437No>>18520536Emily Wilson can't read Greek either>>18520679Peter Green's translation is newer>>18521891All the major characters of the Iliad are heroes, except Paris. Anyone trying to graft morality onto The Iliad is a mental retard unable to break out of their Christian conditioning.
>>18524630Who told you Emily Wilson can't read Greek and why did you believe them?
>>18524644if she could she wouldnt translate πολύτροπος as complicated
>>18524648Green translates it as resourceful mendelsohn translates it as roundabout. Does that mean they can't read Greek?
>>18524654roundabout is wrong. resourceful is correct
>>18524644>Who told you Emily Wilson can't read GreekThe Pythia
>>18521891Actually the Trojans are the good guys because they are the Romans ancestors
>>18524662How is resourceful correct?
>>18524683πολύτροπος means he of many-ways. recourseful.witty
>>18524685No it doesn't.
>>18524687yes it does
>>18524689It literally doesn't and I don't know what else to say. Who told you it means resourceful and why did you believe them?
>>18524700 Ο Όμηρος
>>18524706He doesn't stay resourceful. You can't read Greek.
>>18522547The Odyssey quite clearly says the Greeks were not noble, and their entire generation of heroes was being punished by the gods for behaving like savage brutes and impiously despoiling the temples of Troy.I have to ask, have you actually read these books? You say you have, but your analysis is so poor, missing things are very clearly stated in the text.
>>18524708σκατα στο μουνι που σε ξερασε βρωμιαρη
>>18524713Cute. Still doesn't mean resourceful.
>>18524720So why did every past translation render it as respectful?
>>18524732Respectful?
>>18524732Whoever told you every past translation has translated it to resourceful lied directly to your face. I don't know what else to say. You can skip the English translations of Homer wiki and compare them at a glance.
>>18524739I meant resourceful. Autocorrect
>>18520473Why are women like this?
>>18524802Like what? Like the straw woman a grifter made up to get people angry so they'd give him money in return for more strawman articles to make the more angry?
>>18524807what a despicable lying whore this wilson is. godamn
>>18524812The complete opposite of what I wrote but do go on.
>>18520425No, I did see her translation alongside the others like Fagles and friends.
