these are the haplotypes:I22613.AG R-P312 U5b2b1a1I22614.AG R-P312 U5b1f1aI22615.AG G-L166 N1a1a1I22616.AG R-P312 H1e1I22617.AG U5a1+@16192I22618.AG G-Z6901 T2c1eI22619.AG R-P312 H1I22620.AG K1c1acrazy that actual nordics entered italy in the early bronze age
>>18522857crazy these are actual northwestern europeans
>>18522857the nordic elites of italy
>>18522861>>18522864P312 proto Celtic invaders from beyond the rhine. They were eventually squashed by the time etruscans conquered the po valley.
>>18522857you can literally see how the iberian-like cluster of etruscans/latins was created, you have local eefs, briton/germanic-like beakers and the mixed offsprings
>>18522870nigga no, the etruscans, that largely carried p-312, are those men+local farmer women
>>18522871Two of the samples are haplogroup G, dumb nig
>>18522875Etruscans were never P312 but z2103, G, J2a, and maybe J2b. P312 in Etruscan era were another wave of Celtic invaders. P312 is proto celt. Spoke celt forebearer.
>>18522876no, only 2 sample are G, the local eef and 1 of the mutts, the other 2 mutts are r1b
>>18522878you don't know what you're talking about, etruscans samples are largely P312, with a minority of G and J2B, no J2a among them, unless it's from outliers with east med ancestry
>>18522861It's not that strange. Italo-Celtic was pretty much a Bell Beaker language.
>>18522886yes but you would think they came to italy in a somewhat diluted form, these are pure bell beakers
>>18522878Etruscans were mainly R1b U152
>>18522882>>18522964False, those are not Etruscans but Celtic intruders.
>>18522981Celts from Verona.Distance to: verona:33080.01855699 BelgianC0.01900361 French_Paris0.02023193 French_Nord0.02163511 French_Alsace0.02164199 BelgianBDistance to: verona:32670.03620455 Swiss_French0.03662065 French_Auvergne0.03720976 Italian_Aosta_Valley0.03757190 Spanish_Soria0.03768099 French_OccitanieDistance to: verona:32140.02319584 French_Auvergne0.02408395 Spanish_Catalunya_Central0.02569753 Spanish_Penedes0.02639031 Swiss_French0.02643363 French_OccitanieDistance to: verona:32100.01878636 Swiss_German0.01910153 BelgianC0.01921411 French_Paris0.01953021 French_Alsace0.02009302 French_NordDistance to: verona:32980.02539389 French_Auvergne0.02573651 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona0.02583580 Spanish_Barcelones0.02592343 Spanish_Catalunya_Central0.02606497 French_Occitanie
>>18523015The Celts browned the Bell Beaker folk.>Genetic evidence suggests that there was significant migration to Southern Britain of people from the adjacent mainland at the end of the Bronze Age around 1000 BC, around a millennium after the initial Bell-Beaker migration. This migration may have introduced the Celtic languages to Britain.[17] Patterson et al. (2021) believes that these migrants were "genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France" and had higher levels of Early European Farmers (EEF) ancestry.[25]>Cassidy et al. (2025) propose that gene flow across the Channel throughout the Bronze and Iron Ages is a plausible scenario for the introduction of Celtic languages to Britain. They found evidence for a significant increase in EEF ancestry in Middle-to-Late Iron Age individuals from Southern Britain, indicating substantial population movements across the channel during this period. The authors suggest that the further influx of EEF ancestry in the Iron Age may be the result of a secondary migration of Celtic-speaking groups, potentially resulting in linguistic changes in populations who may have already been speaking Celtic languages.[26]
Romans were Nordic confirmed :)
>>18522857>>18522861Mediolano = Midgardshrimple as.
>>18523017Bell Beakers were celts. Etruscans were not celts, they were from Lemnos, annihilated celts in Latinum, then po and finally in rhateia region. Then, unfortunately celts came back from the Celtic part of Germany called Boii region, before that from modern Czechia.>increased EEF in mid to late Iron Age individuals If these are correctly date, probably not then it is Romans. Or Iberian celts that are known to have settled in Ireland at one point.
>>18523029>>18523017completely irrelevant, stop spamming, etruscans were largely P312, they were the sons of beaker males and local farmers>The Celts browned the Bell Beaker folk.the celts are the descendants of beakers in the first place
>>18523017r-s28 is downstream from p312
>>185228572 samples in the upper right corner are likely elites, italy was probably always dominated by nordic-like elites, we find such samples among the romans too
>>18522857> Another aDNA threadADNA studies will never pass for real DNA studies as they are mere reconstructions.Not only that, they do not follow the scientific method, in that they are non replicable by design, the very method of extraction is destructive to the sample and as such no study can ever be replicated. Why would anyone take them seriously is beyond me.
>>18523066here, the elite roman sample
>>18523089>Germanic haplogroupProbably a mercenary.
>>18523066>nordic eliteNot Nordic YDNA. Anyways these aren’t elite rulers but invader settlers that were eventually evicted, ie barbarian scum.
>>18523312not a germanic haplo, he carries some clade of p312
>>18523043False. See this>>18523331
>>18523334not false idiot, these are the paternal ancestors of etruscans, they carried u152 to italy
>>18523331i said nordic-like elites
>>18523341There's no reason to believe they were elites.
>>18523331>invader settlers that were eventually evicted, ie barbarian scum.Yeah, uh... and then Italy kept speaking a pre-Indo-European language. They remained early European farmers and lived happily ever after. The end.You forgot to take your meds.No, these were the colonizers that established the Italic culture and the Italic languages. They are the Proto-Italic founding stock whose descendants assimilated additional pre-Italic farmer admixture.
>>18523354Were they? Isn't this way too early for this. Proto-Italic is generally dated to Urnfield times, some 1500 years after those samples.
>>18523357Then I don't know then. I wasn't paying attention to the topic. Is there any reason to believe these people were expelled? There could be multiple migration events.
>>18523357likely multiple migrations events, bell beaker proper entered italy and later urnfield, but no one was kicked out
>>18523377yes it's interesting that in italy 100% bell beakers conquered italy while in iberia they were already very mixed, i don't think we have a single iberian beaker that plots with northern europeans
>>18523337Except they never spoke PIE dipshit.
>>18523377They were killed off presumably since you’re speaking out of your ass and the valleys of the alps was a transmission point for constant barbarian invasions. Hence why the Etruscans conquered and then later Romans until they fell.
>>18523382There are some Celtiberians who overlap with the French.
>>18523331>>18523333His haplo is Germanic R1b-U106https://www.exploreyourdna.com/sample/italy/r10339
>>18523447It says 104 bc, you know the time of the cimbri war? Why are you retards even allowed to post weak bait? Fuck you’re stupid.
>>18523421doesn't change their ydna
>>18523447the study doesn't assign him that haplogroup
>>18523483He’s not Etruscan. Clearly an invader that ended up in the grave where he belonged.
>>18523442with the south french at best, none plot with scandis or britons
>>18523501you idiot, they're fathers of etruscans
>>18523455>>18523501100% a slave from the Cimbri or Teutoni taken captive in the war and marched back to Italy in coffles then worked to death by some farmer, unceremoniously thrown to rot into the local mausoleum with 0 grave goods of any kind indicating any status
>>18523514a superior germanic that resembled the ancient bell beaker elite that fathered the etruscans and the latins
>>18523447this is probably correct for this individual but still fuck this shit website, i browsed it a bit and it's full of wrong calls or females having ydna calls
>>18523510>>18523531You’re a faggot that’s spreading disinformation. Etruscans aren’t indo Europeans and came from the Aegean. Celtic R1b invaded several times the Italian peninsula and was crushed by Aegeans - Etruscans, Illyrians, Roman (Trojans) all having different YDNA. You posted a Cimbri war era Germanic YDNA that has nothing to do with R1b-P312, they have a last common ancestor from 3500 bc anyway. Etruscans were not bell beakers or Germanic.
>>18523531The ''superior germanics'' who were backward illiterate barbarians until the Middle AgesNo actual Roman sample is close to Germanics/Nordics whatsoever, they all cluster with Italians, Spaniards and Greeks
>>18523543>Etruscans aren’t indo Europeans and came from the Aegeanthey were genetically fathered by indo europeans and has nothing to do with ageans, how new are you?https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673>To investigate the potential influence of sex biases in these genomic transformations, we computed the frequency of uniparental markers through time. The mtDNA diversity does not seem to change substantially before and after year 1 CE (fig. S5A). By contrast, the newly reported central Italian individuals from 800 to 1 BCE show ~75% frequency of the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b, mostly represented by the R1b-P312 polymorphism and its derived R1b-L2, that diffused across Europe alongside steppe-related ancestry in association with the Bell Beaker complex (16). This suggests that this R1b Y-chromosome lineage spread into the Italian peninsula with steppe-related movements during the Bronze Age.>You posted a Cimbri war era Germanic YDNA that has nothing to do with R1b-P312look at the beakers from parma they're all r1b-p312
>>18523543>Etruscans aren’t indo EuropeansThey are genetically. Recent studies show steppe admixture and haplogroups was common.Pre-Indo-European "Etruscans" may have existed but as soon as they enter the historical record, they're already mixed.
>>18523551>and Greekseast med mongrel detected, none cluster with greeks unless they're mutts with non italic ancestry, east med ancestry is more foreign to latins than germanic ancestry
>>18523553U106 does not descend from P312 shit head. Your greentext are mentioning Celtic invaders. Nothing Roman or Etruscan about them. How can Celtoi father a non Indo European speaking people?
>>18523543>Roman (Trojans)people here fall for 2000 year old propaganda?
>>18523556Yes and how much of that is actually timed correctly to the height of Etruscan civilization and not foreign invaders from the north or captured northern women that were bred?
>>18523557You are delusional. Many roman samples cluster with Greeks, even in the Republic. Southern Italy was heavily settled by Greeks, retard
>>18523562You post a 100 bc Germanic slave sample as if it was a patrician from early Iron Age Etruria. You are spreading miserable propaganda.
>>18523564This trolling is not very entertaining. They have Indo-European Y-DNA
>>18523559>U106 does not descend from P312 shit head.u106 was not mentioned by me, the samples that OP posted are P312 not U106>Your greentext are mentioning Celtic invaders. Nothing Roman or Etruscan about them. How can Celtoi father a non Indo European speaking people?no my greentext is from the etruscan study and is about etruscan samples>How can Celtoi father a non Indo European speaking people?bell beakers fathered a non indo european speaking people with their dicks i assume, just like they did with the basque, is this the first time you heard of populations speaking a different language from their fathers?
>>18523567no i'm not delusional, no sample clusters with greeks without having foreign ancestry that is foreign to IA italy>Southern Italy was heavily settled by Greekssouthern italy is irrelevant to the argument and greeks aren't romans or they would be called romans and not greeks
What type of nationality are found in these threads?brazilian?
>>18523568There are no lows those nordishitters will not sink to, their inferiority complex about their mudhut ooga booga ancient history is hilarious
>>18523578It's not irrelevant because Greeks moved to other parts of Italy, including Rome, retard. There are Roman samples that cluster very close with Greeks/modern southern Italians, even in the Republic, this is a fact
>>18523588>It's not irrelevant because Greeks moved to other parts of Italy, including Rome, retard.it's irrelevant to the argument and greeks moving to other parts of italy does not make the latins greeks>There are Roman samples that cluster very close with Greeks/modern southern Italians, even in the Republic, this is a factyes indeed foreigners
>>18523331you're not med or roman paco joao de silvia sanchez
>>18522857Spanish bvlls win again
>>18523581>>18523568>>18523551>>18523557see>>18523592
>>18523568not everybody who replies to you is the same poster
>>18523442Modern Iberians overlap with southern French in many cases too so it's irrelevant
>>18523573And it is Yamnaya R1b-z2103, PF756 and J2b-l283 found in cetina culture. 2 out 3 found in Etruscan samples = real etruscans. Any P312 are proto Celtic and literal Celtic intruders. One anon posted Germanic R1b-U106 as proof of basically nothing because it was dated to Cimbri war and any P312 haplos of Etruscans are not etruscans but slaves and bandits.
>>18523941no it's not, it's p312, there's not a single R1b-z2103 etruscanhttps://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673>To investigate the potential influence of sex biases in these genomic transformations, we computed the frequency of uniparental markers through time. The mtDNA diversity does not seem to change substantially before and after year 1 CE (fig. S5A). By contrast, the newly reported central Italian individuals from 800 to 1 BCE show ~75% frequency of the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b, mostly represented by the R1b-P312 polymorphism and its derived R1b-L2, that diffused across Europe alongside steppe-related ancestry in association with the Bell Beaker complex (16). This suggests that this R1b Y-chromosome lineage spread into the Italian peninsula with steppe-related movements during the Bronze Age.
>>18523968Dog, the fact remains that Etruscan language comes from Lemnos and the Bronze Age Balkans lack P312 results at all. Meanwhile, Balkan Bronze Age genes are found in Etruscan samples. It’s quite clearly that aegeans transmitted their genes on the Italian mainland. Your only claim to etruscans is that the real elites of aegeans ruled over bell beakers who previously massacred and rape the farmers of the Italian peninsula. The Etruscans and Romans both came from the Balkan Aegean area and ruled as warrior elites.
>>18524105>Genome-wide studies of Iron Age individuals from Tuscany and Lazio show that Etruscans were genetically similar to their Latin neighbors, despite linguistic differences.[71] Both groups carried Steppe-related ancestry, introduced via migrations in the 2nd millennium BCE, likely associated with the Bell Beaker culture.[61] A 2021 study found no signal of recent admixture from Anatolia or the Eastern Mediterranean, supporting the Etruscans' autochthonous origin.[61] The large majority of Etruscan males belonged to the haplogroup R1b-M269 (75%), particularly R1b-P312 and its derivative R1b-L2 (descendant of R1b-U152), while mtDNA was dominated by haplogroup H.[61] Overall, Iron Age Etruscans from central Italy could be modelled as deriving 50% of their ancestry from Central European Bell Beakers (represented by Germany Bell Beaker), with around 25-30% steppe ancestry. Two Etruscan samples were modelled as having 80% Germany Bell Beaker ancestry.[61]>A 2024 study on individuals from Tarquinia (9th–7th century BC) confirmed earlier results: ancestry was 84–92% Italy Bell Beaker with additional 8–26% Steppe admixture. Two males carried haplogroup J2b, and maternal haplogroups matched post-Neolithic European patterns. Physical traits included pale to intermediate skin tones, light/dark brown hair, blue and brown eyes.[72]
