>>18527379
Not exactly uncommon, Marx hated unions. Marxism and unions aren't really compatible without at least a certain degree of adaptation/mental gymnastics.

>>18527379
A surprising interesting thought despite it not being on the right board
A communist would argue though, that begging your master is still leaving him at the top and postponing the moment he enslaves yourself again in the future (just like how temporary gains for the workers are now undone and most people can only dream of winning the wagecuck rat race)
It is true though that chinky socially darwinist society fucking suck.
But maybe you could look at the ussr at the places where life was good and take notes, or maybe have a more holistic view and look at the current scandinavian countries...
I'd say the main problem in china is the same as other asian countries like korea, the culture is very vapid and hierarchical, were its socially accepted to sexually harrass your employees, discard ugly people, their social media algorithms are engineered by disgusting antisocial freaks.
Im not saying marxism is the way I'm just a guy but somewhere I know that temporary gains are only temporary

>>18527424
USSR was a shithole that couldn’t feed itself within its miserable below 100 years of history, and Scandinavia was an area of capitalist monarchies that modeled their social safety nets off Social Democrat Theories. Marxism is a failure of an ideology that ran its course, and is wholly inadequate for advanced economies. Hence it only rose in deeply dysfunctional agrarian states.

>>18527379
Well, yeah, Marxists have tried repeatedly to take credit for labor movements in the US when it was overwhelmingly progressive, Christians, yellow socialists, etc. Guys like Samuel Gompers and Hugo Black are clearly not Marxists. They heard Woodie Guthrie suck off Stalin one time and assumed the character of the American labor movement was all hardcore communists. It is also ironic that the CCP is an oligarchy, and yet communists still love them. Likely because in the US it literally is largely a fifth column movement facilitated by foreign interests.

There was no freedom to form a labor union in the USSR, union organizers were put in mental institutions. The labor movement was denounced as a capitalist wage bargaining lobby.

>>18527424
I think that something people get wrong is the association between command economies and Marxism. When playing catch-up, central planning is effective, it's not taboo for "capitalist" economists to say this either even at the height of the Red Scare. Your average capitalist economist in the 1960's wouldn't have looked at the USSR and declared it an outright failure, the issue is that Marxism breeds an ideological commitment to command economics and rigid investment into things like heavy industry. That's when things start going wrong, in South Korea, Park Chung Hee engages in central planning, then later on says "alright, we'll let the chaebols off the leash so they can pursue more advanced industries." Meanwhile the Norks maintain never-ending investment into heavy industry because "steel and coal are the means by which we win our liberation struggle (future war with SK)." Trying to re-route out of that mindset is next to impossible for command economies, which is why the most performant "socialist state" China liberalized their economy and declared that their oligarchs were just "people's oligarchs". Committed anti-communists can and do learn the lessons from the USSR's initial successes to understand that there needs to be a degree of central planning for developing economies, but committed Marxists refuse to acknowledge the successes of market economies in developed countries because that's the very system they are fighting, they just regurgitate the old tired line that an economy is fake if it isn't making more steel.

>>18527379
>I align myself with union and labour politics but refuse to identify with marxism
Anon with relative managing a union here. This is a very popular opinion. As much as lefties love pretending they're unions' best friends, in the real world unions are crawling with far-right retards of the purest kind. Come to think of it, I've never seen evidence of unions leaning left other than the fact lefties have appropriated their aesthetics.

>>18527379
so do you believe in national syndicalism

>>18527560
I fix elevators and work in a union with several different tradies. None of them vote republican or care for attach themselves to the "right wing" label. Where did you get this information? Other terminally online faggots who type a keyboard all day and call that a "job"?

>>18527744
No

>>18527456
TRVTH NVKE

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63 KB JPG

>>18527379
OP has finally come to the realization that commies are just trying to make you slaves to the state instead of a private entity.

how does trade unionism work in modern day china? Can people working in an iphone sweatshop collectively bargain for better pay and working conditions? Or will they be fired and arrested?

Bismarck started building the welfare state because he was very much afraid of a workers' revolution. Unions only built on that foundation of violence.

So you like medieval guilds.
Cool.

Guess what, the French Revolution literally banned them.
Because who guaranteed them, the fucking king did that's who.

Literally the French revolution government dissolved the ancient guilds, banned unions or any trade organizations, made collective bargaining illegal and punishable with prison time as sedition.

They destroyed workplace standards meant to keep labor safe, wage guarantees, price and quality controls for an entire century.
The guilds functioned as a kind of social safety net, helped with disability, they had pensions, gave welfare to the widows and orphans of tradesmen, even provide legal services and protection.

You do not hate leftists enough, they invented capitalism and communism alike.
Just two sides of the same modernist coin.

>>18527750
>I fix elevators and work in a union with several different tradies. None of them vote republican or care for attach themselves to the "right wing" label.
how could they vote Republican in an EU cunt anyway?

>>18527826
>how does trade unionism work in modern day china?
It doesn't
If you're any threat to the production quota you'll be ignored or just fired

>>18527857
Every """worker's""" revolution had only worsened the living conditions of the working class

>>18528293
>only Europe has unions
Is that what they tell wagies these days? Grim.

>>18527750
You did not establish that your union "leans left," only that the people around you who vote Republican don't say it out loud. And even if you did, it's N=1 donkey shit. Meanwhile in the real world, Biden bails out Teamsters, and they repay him with lockstep full-blown cultish allegiance to Trump.

>>18528627
>Biden bails out Teamsters, and they repay him with lockstep full-blown cultish allegiance to Trump.
This is the problem with you people. You fail to understand incentives. Or, if you do, the only incentive you understand is threatening to kill people.
The teamsters have bargaining power because they run the RAILROADS dumbass. There's ONLY two options: acquiesce to their demands or kill them. But somehow, workers bargaining for their rights is worthy of death. LOL "bails out" give me a break, goofy ass.

>>18527379
>While communist shitholes like China, Vietnam and DPRK are the reason we still have literal fucking sweatshops in current year
Ah yes "we exported our sweatshops so now we can wash our hands of it". Thanks Nixon.
>>18527560
>I've never seen evidence of unions leaning left
That's because you don't know anything about economics. Politics is just "niggers and trannies" to juvenile retards like you.

>>18528637
>we exported our sweatshops so now we can wash our hands of it
actually, Unions in America managed to negotiate for reasonable, high-wage working conditions. Massive steps up from what existed before. But unions didn't exist in communist countries. This creates an incentive structure to outsource labor.
Second, it's not like the Soviet Union was built on outsourced labor, and it still had shit working conditions.
>inb4 "not real communism"or "everything bad about the USSR was western propaganda"

>>18528637
Nigger I don't support capitalism either
I blame neoliberal psychopaths like Nicon, Reagan, Carter etc for sending our jobs overseas to sweatshops
I'm well aware Nixon was the one who opened the door to all this shit

But that doesn't justify a supposed worker's republic like China or Vietnam for actually being the ones to have literal sweatshops in their countries