Stump v. Sparkman (1978) saw the Supreme Court rule that a judge cannot be held liable for poor judgement or procedural errors in a ruling he has made, only when he actively does something outside his jurisdiction. In July 1971, Auburn, Indiana resident Ora McFarlin and her attorney Warren Sunday requested a court order to have her teenage daughter Linda surgically sterilized. The petition argued that the girl was mildly retarded, sexually promiscuous, and should have her tubes tied to prevent a "mistake" from happening since she was unable to control her daughter's comings and goings or supervise her 24/7. Judge Harold Stump of the DeKalb County Circuit Court granted the petition without ever telling Linda and there was nothing in Indiana statutes which would have granted him that authority. A few days later, Linda was informed she was to get an appendectomy and underwent surgery at DeKalb Memorial Hospital where Dr. John Hines, Dr. Harry Covell, and anesthesiologist Dr. John Harvey performed a tubal litigation on her.
Linda got married two years later to her husband Leo Sparkman. When no pregnancy resulted after two years of marriage, she was informed by Dr. Hines about what had actually happened. The Sparkmans immediately filed suit against her mother and her attorney, Judge Stump, the doctors, and the hospital. Leo Sparkman asserted a damage claim for loss of potential fatherhood. Linda also sought damages for assault and battery and medical malpractice.US District Judge Jesse Eschbach dismissed the case on the grounds that Judge Stump had judicial immunity and therefore none of the other defendants could be sued either. The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals overruled Eschbach. Citing the Supreme Court's rulings in Bradley v. Fisher (1871) and Pierson v. Ray (1967), Judge Luther Swygert wrote that judicial immunity did not apply in an area where a judge has no clear authority. Indiana law since 1907 had permitted the sterilization of persons with mental conditions, but they had the right to defend and appeal. There was nothing in there allowing an underage child to be sterilized merely at a parent's request, nor did Stump exercise a valid judicial function in fashioning new common law. Swygert added that Linda Sparkman was never even told what was happening or given a chance to defend herself.
Stump appealed to the Supreme Court, which ruled 5-3 in his favor and overturned the 7th Circuit Court. Justice Byron White wrote the majority opinion, arguing that Indiana law vested judges with full jurisdiction on any legal matter not expressly prohibited to them. The Indiana sterilization law had since been repealed in 1974, too late for Linda Sparkman, and shortly afterwards the state court of appeals ruled that a parent did not have a right to sterilize their child, but White noted that Ora McFarlin's petition should have been denied on its merits rather than dismiss it for lack of jurisdiction.The 7th Circuit Court had argued that Indiana law lacked anything allowing Stump's actions. White noted that nothing in Indiana law forbade a judge from considering the petition and that judges had "absolute" immunity even if they make serious procedural mistakes. Even if Stump mad a bad decision, he was allowed to consider Mrs. McFarlin's petition, and the parties dealt with him in his capacity as a judge, not a private citizen, and therefore he was not liable for his mistake no matter how tragic the consequences.
Justice Stewart dissented. He argued that Stump's actions were "beyond the pale of anything that could sensibly be called a judicial act" and that there was no evidence that any judge in Indiana history had ever performed an action such as his. "A judge is not free like a loose cannon to inflict indiscriminate damage whenever he announces that he is acting in his judicial capacity." Since Linda Sparkman was never informed or given any right of appeal, "The total absence of any of these normal attributes of a judicial proceeding convinces me that the conduct complained of in this case was not a judicial act."Justice Powell filed a separate dissent. "Underlying the Bradley immunity...is the notion that private rights can be sacrificed in some degree to the achievement of the greater public good deriving from a completely independent judiciary, because there exist alternative forums and methods for vindicating those rights. But where a judicial officer acts in a manner that precludes all resort to appellate or other judicial remedies that otherwise would be available, the underlying assumption of the Bradley doctrine is inoperative."Linda Sparkman later changed her name to Jamie Renae Coleman and co-authored a 2003 book, "The Blanket She Carried", with her friend Paula Headley.
>>18528611>>18528615I hate this state so much. Please nuke it.
>Tubal ligations require the consent of the female only, and like with other forms of sterilisation or birth control,[3] only the consent of the patient (not partners, their spouse or families) is required.[4]
>>18528611how did the girl not figure out what happened for a couple years? if you get an appendectomy you would have a surgical scar in a rather different location than a tubal ligature, wasn't she like "hey wait this isn't where my appendix is."
>>18528682Apparently they didn't in Indiana back then.
>>18528611Did the mom genuinely not think her daughter would eventually want to get married and have a legitimate family at some point and this was clearly a horrible idea? I can't believe she didn't have some personal beef with the girl and decided to sterilize her just out of sadism.
>>18528699I think she actually assumed tubal ligations are a reversible procedure.
oh well, hopefully her husband dumped her and had a family with someone who had slightly less retarded parents
I'd argue that not only did the supreme court get this one right, so did the Indiana judge.
>>18528611>The petition argued that the girl was mildly retarded, sexually promiscuous, and should have her tubes tied to prevent a "mistake" from happening since she was unable to control her daughter's comings and goings or supervise her 24/7. Judge Harold Stump of the DeKalb County Circuit Court granted the petition without ever telling Linda and there was nothing in Indiana statutes which would have granted him that authorityGod we used to be a real country. Make america great again
>>18528611>>18528615this state has a reputation for a reason. this is some Deliverance tier redneck shit. also the mom clearly was totally irresponsible and admitted she couldn't stop her daughter from fucking everything that moved.
>>18528743so basically you're saying if the judge ordered you to give a black guy a blowjob on a public street corner you'd have to do it since he has judicial immunity.
>The petition argued that the girl was mildly retarded, sexually promiscuous, and should have her tubes tied to prevent a "mistake" from happening holy based
>>18528782That's not the argument. The judge would not have the legal authority to order you to suck a black dick in public. It applied only when he was acting in his allowed capacity.
>>18528817can you still claim to be acting in allowed capacity if you do not follow established procedure in the matter
>>18528699I think she believed she was an i can count to potato retard and she would sterilize her for her own good. Once the daughter got married and otherwise be a functional adult it was a little too late to go back on it.
>>18528782mutt's law strikes again
>>18528782
If you read about Stump carefully, it gets even more fucked up. The mother's case for claiming her daughter was "somewhat retarded" is that she "was associating with "older youth and young men" and that it would be in the daughter's best interest to undergo a tubal ligation "to prevent unfortunate circumstances."tl;dr they didn't want to risk her getting pregnant and embarrassing them
>>18528828>oh, you screwed up the paperwork while filing a warrant? go to jail
The US has a pretty dark history with regards to sterilizations. It's never really talked about though. California for one sterilized _thousands_ of people who were deemed "undesirable" to the rest of the population. Everything considered, the OP case is not shocking.
>>18528934all those potential baby daddies and baby mommas that never made it onto the welfare rolls...has there ever been a greater loss of human capital in recorded history?
>>18528911Here's the thing. There was no evidence that the girl was mentally retarded or anything but a rebellious teenager and the judge granted the sterilization order without any evidence, he just accepted the mother's claim at face value. This was a new level of fucked up.
>>18528934>It's never really talked about thoughI wouldn't agree with that. I learned about Buck v. Bell, and the early 20th century eugenics movement in my high school AP US history class.
>>18528944I wonder how much she eventually realized she completely fucked shit up?>no grandkids>daughter who hated her for the rest of forever
>>18528912that's why judicial immunity is a thing, so you don't get canned/criminally charged if you make a mistake somewhere, only if you do something you're clearly prohibited from doing.
>>18528934I think they've happened recently too. Usually inmates
>>18528934that's why planned parenthood was founded... i don't give a fuck what they do today that organization needs to be dismantled and something new put into place... i know, i know, they don't target minorities anymore...it just totally a coincidence that planned parenthood services mostly the undesirable...i mean, minority populations
>>18528690It was 1971, none of that information was available to a random teenager in rural Indiana.>>18528912That's an absolutely false comparison. Stump didn't even try to be a judge, totally violated all principles of judicial procedure, and didn't even act in accordance with any law. It was an utterly lawless and criminal act that directly violated the bodily integrity of a teenager for no purpose. >>18528779>>18528656Say what you will about Wisconsin, but at least they're real people. Indiana is valueless land full of willfully immoral people. I've seen a Chicago pride parade and it had less degeneracy than an average weeknight in Indiana.t. FIB
>>18529024Wisconsin is mostly Germans and Scandis so have that culture of Teutonic Ordnung. Indiana otoh is Welsh and Ulster Scot cousin fucking hillbillies who wanted to move to Chicago from Kentucky but didn't make it and stopped halfway there.
>>18529022>it just totally a coincidence that planned parenthood services mostly the undesirable...i mean, minority populationsclearly they need their funding cut considering how badly they failed at that
>>18528618>5-3 rulingWilliam Brennan was out sick and not present for this case so that's why that was.
Stewart and Powell were completely right here; White took a too rigid/legalistic approach to the case.
>>18529040>Welsh and Ulster ScotWhy did the british isles create so many subhuman races? Is it a result of their origins as celtic/germanic barbarian mongrels? Is it inbreeding? Did their environment ruin them?
>>18528611>>18528615this 100% totally is something that would happen in Indiana
The Buck v. Bell ruling from the 1920s was never overturned so technically it's still allowable to sterilize undesirables in the US.
>>18529078it so happens to be that the judicial branch in the US is the one whose acts cannot be overturned by the other two branches short of a constitutional amendment (as for example the 16th Amendment was required to overturn Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co.)
the hospital and doctors were more to blame than the judge tbqh
>>18529022>i don't give a fuck what they do today that organization needs to be dismantled and something new put into placewoman moment
>>18529024>It was an utterly lawless and criminal act that directly violated the bodily integrity of a teenager for no purpose.the supreme court said otherwise, and they knew more about this than you do
>>18529078>>18529087no, a simple act of congress can overturn the judicial branch on non-constitutional matters, which buck v. bell was. Since all states that had them have repealed their forced sterilization statutes the ruling has been overturned.
there were 16 states that had sterilization laws so it was still a minority of the total
I felt like this was wrong until I read she was 15 when the sterilization happened tried to become pregnant two years later at 17. Yep, somewhat retarded.
>>18529124it's Indiana. having your first child at 17 is a bit late there.
>>18528611At least post the wikipedia article, if you aren't going to post a link to the decisions text:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stump_v._Sparkmantext of decisionhttps://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/435/349/#
>>18528743>judges can rule on anything that they want in any way they want even if they have no jurisdiction to do so and have no culpability for those actionsThe legal bureaucracy is not a privileged caste.
I think Byron White was more concerned with the apocalyptic disaster that would result if judicial immunity wasn't upheld. Judges could be sued, jailed, etc on a regular basis without that.
>>18529216this is why appeals courts exist, and why the legislature can always change the law if they dislike the way a judge interpreted it. And the law DID grant the judge the authority to rule in this way, that's the entire crux of the supreme court's argument. Indiana only changed the law to remove that authority later.
>>18529255The USSC claim was not that he was allowed to order that procedure, but that he was not not allowed to order that procedure.They instead claimed that a judge has fiat to claim authority wherever he is not explicitly denied it and any citizen effected by this has to accept said authority. Appeals Courts can overturn bad decisions at great personal expense to the individual that was harmed by judicial malpractice. But they do not provide an avenue for that individual to sue that judge for restitution for said malpractice.
>>18529272You have a problem with common law rulings?
>>18529216Then you should pay them like they aren't. The only reason competent lawyers with decades of experience are willing to take underpaid jobs in the judiciary is because they have hardly any liability. Pay them 300k+/yr if you want to hold them responsible for procedural errors
Please explain to me how lawyers aren't all extremely evil people and sincerely the only people who truly deserve to be killed? It is the only job humanity does not need because lawyers only exist to hurt the average person and defend rulers, never have lawyers helped a common man or woman
>>18529279Federal Judges are paid at 220k, and if someone has come from being a partner at a biglaw firm that is more than a 95% paycut. Biglaw partner salaries are now 3-6M on average, some are much higher. Roberts actually complained about this a few years ago, saying judicial salaries needed to be massively increased because people used to become a federal judge as the capstone to their career, but now people were doing it for a few years then retiring for a much more lucrative job as an arbitrator, despite their lifetime appointment.But they would need to pay them MUCH more than 300k for it to make a difference.
>>18529282what a foolish thing to say
>>18529282What's funny to me is that you get gun nuts who think their little collection of handguns is what keeps the government from becoming a police state, while they never actually do anything but waste a huge percentage of their paycheck collecting overpriced guns and ammo. Meanwhile criminal defense attorneys and civil rights attorneys, as well as neutral judges are the ones who actually force the government to follow the law and not become a police state every single day.
>>18528611This is like attempting to sue a doctor for medical malpractice and the doctor being given the option of having the case tried by a panel of doctors who then rule that doctors can't be held liable for their mistakes. This is why shit like the supreme court has always been a mistake; obviously a cabal of legal professionals are always going to rule in favor of legal professionals.They have always been a disgusting class of pure parasites that would put the most shameless jewish banker to shame. A huge part of why modern America is so fucked up is the direct result of our legal system and the vermin controlling it. >A judge will not be deprived of immunity because the action he took was in error, was done maliciously, or was in excess of his authority, but, rather, he will be subject to liability only when he has acted in the "clear absence of all jurisdiction,"Any moderately intelligent person would read this and immediately recognize that it's utterly insane for the highest authority in the nation to be quote "immune" to any reprimand or repercussion despite "taking action maliciously". If a judge has a personal vendetta against you and "maliciously and in excess of his authority" does everything he can to fuck you over, he has from a legal standpoint done nothing wrong so long as he has not "acted in clear absence of all jurisdiction".Who decides what qualifies as "clear absence of all jurisdiction"? Why, the judge himself and his other judge buddies, of course. People who think that law enforcement has a "us vs them, support your fellow cops even when they're wrong" problem have no idea; what they do is baby shit compared to what people in the judicial system will do to protect one another.
>>18529406>personal vendetta against youConflict of interest would usually be identified beforehand >does everything he can to fuck you overThen go to an appellate court>us vs them, support your fellow cops even when they're wrongAppellate courts often do the opposite
>>18529298>What's funny to me is that you get gun nuts who think their little collection of handguns is what keeps the government from becoming a police state, They're right. The US government literally lost to random rice and goat farmers. History shows that an armed populace stands a pretty good chance against even the most powerful military in the world
>>18529406and yet in this case the 7th Circuit Court and the dissenting USSC justices clearly agreed that Stump had grossly abused his power
>>18529420The commitment the US government has to preserving its territorial integrity in the face of domestic rebellion significantly exceeds any commitment to a questionable foreign adventure where losing poses little if any risk to the US
>>18529437Perhaps, but it's still not the kind of thing they'd want to invest in. Ever consider why gun owners are often stereotyped as right-wing conservatives even tough left-wing gun owners exist? It's because Republican politicians make it an effort to appeal to the firearm community in the first place so they can enact policy with less fear of pushback from them, so in some sense firearm ownership has a great deal of influence over domestic policy in subtle ways
>>18529420Whiskey rebellion (+ a few other rebellions) early on in the US, the coal wars in the early 20th century, COINTELPRO in the mid-late 20th century, the MOVE bombing, the GWOT era infiltration to the point where "angry convert jihadist cia agent" became a meme in american muslim communities. Your movement will be infiltrated, subverted, and dismantled before it becomes a major threat, and if it ever does escalate to that point, they'll just bomb you into oblivion >The US government literally lost to random rice and goat farmersBecause of geographical unfamiliarity, poor intelligence, lack of political legitimacy, unpopularity from being foreign occupiers, the fact that dirt poor thirdies had little to lose, along many other factors. None of those factors would exist in a domestic insurgency
>>18528779Indiana is the South but without all the Bible Belt stuff and quaint, polite culture. It's the redneck trash shithole people think Alabama is.
>>18529406>casual antisemitismargument invalidated, loser
>>18529516>Whiskey rebellionI shouldn't even have to explain to you why this is a bad faith argument so I'm just going to stop responding to you in earnest now
>>18529715You didn't reply to me before, and you shouldn't reply in earnest because it's not really up for argument: if you try to rebel against the government you will (at best) be arrested for some years and at worst be tortured to death
>everyone got away with it Why is evil never punished
>>18529715not that anon, explain to me why its a bad faith argument
>>18529733What was evil about it? The parents and the judge did humanity a favor by not letting that retarded thot breed.
>>18529735The Whiskey "Rebellion" was a small group of farmers that got uppity because they didn't understand the early legislative process or how they were represented in the newly formed federal government and their cause didn't have wide appeal amongst the general population
>>18529739You perfectly described your hypothetical larp
>>18529737>>>/r9k/
>>18530359not an answer, the child was her parent's property
>>18528611would you believe it. my sister is 34 has two kids, very much does not want any more, but they won't give her a tubal ligation told her nah if you're 35 and up we'll consider it but apparently 34 is too young?
>>18530378Do you think the parents should have been allowed to forcibly arrange marriage her to a black guy off the street? Is it ok since she was their property?
