What's Catholic Mary's power level?
Prolly higher than Dio Brando, but not as high as Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
>>18532522omnipotent, she is the commander of Jesus
Gee I don't know, she is the only human witness to both his incarnation and crucifixion or whatever.
>>18532529Would she be immune to To Aru Majutsu no Index's Kamijou Touma's Imagine Breaker?
>>18532532Yes and she needs no divine powers according to Catholics
>>18532522why do you people only focus on Catholics? all of you believe her womb contained the creator
>>18532529If that guy wasn't beheaded he should be exhumed just to be beheaded post mortem.
>>18533947Because you turn the grace of God on its head with your version of Mary. It is self-evident that most of your ideas about her came about in the era in which tens of millions of pagans were forced into the churches. One the greatest cults of the age was that of Mater Deum. Expecting the millions of adherents of the great Mater to drop all their ideas and doctrines overnight is so naive it is absurd.
>>18534478Solitaire laying out the facts as always
>>18534478You don't know what grace even is.As in, if you had to define it you would fail.I know you would, because you have previously failed to adequately define "sin" (you said it was like breath, hilariously backwards almost the total inversion of the truth) and fruit (which you said is doctrine, again demonstrably wrong). Fantastically mistaken on both counts, that's a pattern you seem dead set on not breaking out of.It's embarrassing that you even put up the arrogant pretense of pretending to know what Jesus taught enough to school Catholics.The earliest prayers to Mary predate the adoption by Rome of the one holy catholic and apostolic church as it's state religion by more than 100 years."Sub tuum presidium" is from the mid 3rd century. Art from the catacombs dating from the 2nd century depict her holding the baby Jesus, just as Roman statuary does till this very day. There even a depiction of the Ascension. You would say they were pagans secretly worshipping Isis or some other lunatic prottie smear of which there are hundreds.Protip, St Gabriel hailed Mary and said she was full of grace. That's just a fact, the compound word used literally contains the word translated elsewhere by the KJV as "grace". She is the Mother of God. You are basically a Nestorian but fundamentally worse catechesis and faith formation.
>>18534478>tens of millions of pagans were forced into the churchesYou can thank Paul for that
>>18535321>Mary is "full of grace"Yes, very well.>Therefore Mary is a sinless being, "Queen of Heaven"Non sequitur.>Out of the thousands of meetingplaces for Christians the first centuries after Christ, a few of them had idolatrous imagesYes, very well.>Therefore, not only is this a normative practice, it is therefore a requirement to worship idolatrous images or else be anathemaNon sequitur. >You can thank Paul for thatYou can thank Emperor Theodosius, actually.
>>18534433Mary enjoying a status of omnipotence (or at least omnipotence-by-proxy) is the only possible interpretation of Christian doctrine. The ten commandments include "honor thy father and mother," meaning that Jesus was bound to obey Mary. And since Jesus was also God, and God is infallible, then God must obey Mary.
>>18535343>The ten commandments include "honor thy father and mother," meaning that Jesus was bound to obey Mary....>And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.>Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.>His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
>>18535333Let's leave aside the issue of her immaculate conception, since we apparently don't share a common understanding of the doctrines which inform that position.Personally, I find it far too obvious that she alone totally reverses the disobedience of Eve through her fiat.She is undoubtedly however to be considered the queen mother of heaven due to the kingship of Christ, just as Bathsheba was the queen mother of Jerusalem because of her relationship to Solomon.It's really just that simple.>few of them had idolatrous imagesThese are the martyrs you're talking about.People who celebrated the holy mass upon the tombs of their own blessed saints.They literally gave their lives for the faith because they refused idolatry. Get learned.Please, just entertain my request. It's for both our good. Define grace, this is a very basic exercise which you seem to be neglecting.
>>18535346>They literally gave their lives for the faith because they refused idolatry. Get learned.They had more faith than the idolators that came after them. Second, I don't recall any images of the saints pre-Nicaea I. The first icons centered around Christ and Mary, at least. >Define graceUnearned favor. Faith in God reciprocates grace. It is not earned, in that no work was done. It is not a wage.
>>18532522no more or less than any other child of God in Christany other answer is heretical
>>18535344...and then Jesus turns water into wine, satisfying his mother's request.
>>18535385sigh...>While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.>Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.>But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?>And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!>For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
>>18535344>greentextI accept your concession.
>>18535353The first icon I can think of is the most holy and blessed cross.The body of Christ, crucified in the world but not of it, united to this suffering cross. Being under it's sign, hearts uplifted with Christ, over the earth.The second is the image of a fish, or anchor, which signifies the mission to nations.Which reminds us of his glorified eating of the fish, bodily before his men.
>>18535512>The first icon I can think of is the most holy and blessed cross.Post-hoc attribution. The cross is not an icon and never has been, you are just projecting the cult of icons onto something which was never apart of it and never acknowledged as a part of it
>>18535524The sign of the cross is truly ancient in the church.Witnesses to it abound.A blessing, worked through his own precious blood.The image of God, through which man was made and completed.
>>18532522Pretty high, within the Catholic Hagiographical Universe (CHU). Would probably beat most spirits, some minor gods of select traditions. She'd get Neg diff'ed by Mahayana Buddha. >>18532529I don't trust this Richard of St. Laurence fellow. Apparently his only work, ever, was a long book praising mary. Published two hundred years after he lived.>>18532526Gets low diff'ed by Anti-Spiral, at best.
