Was Jesus a young earth creationist?
>>18536583No. Mark 2:27- sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath Sabbath = 6 day creation
>>18537064Your brain is worthless.
>>18536583Yes, and what's more he was the Creator that made the world
>>18537064Sabbath was made for God. God calls it HIS holy day all throughout the old testament. He says stop desecrating my holy Sabbaths etc.It's a holy and sacred day, if it was just a day for man to rest and no big deal God wouldn't have commanded death to those who violate the Sabbath.
>>18537421No, he isn't
>>18538002There's a ton of /his/torical evidence for Jesus' divinity. Have you hear about how two governments at the time of Christ looked into him and his activities, and the heads of state of both came away believing that he genuinely had divine power?The Roman Emperor Tiberius because of the reports he received from his officials, and same for the king of Osroene. Except in the king of Osroene's case he was then the object of one of those miracles when an Apostle came and healed him!All of this we have reported in official documents from government archives. The historians Eusebius (at http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250101.htm) and Movses Khorenatsi (at http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0859.htm) record how the king of Armenia, Abgar, requested a healing from Christ and one of the Apostles came and did so. The official archives in the capital city Edessa recorded this, and recorded King Abgar's letters discussing the events. They transcribed them straight from the archives and he talked about being healed.Armenia is the oldest Christian nation today because its king at the time of Christ was healed by an Apostle.One of them was to Emperor Tiberius, and as you can read there he isn't shocked at any of this, instead he says "we had already heard several persons relate these facts, Pilate has officially informed us of the miracles of Jesus".He is, like the king of Osroene wrote there, "creator of fire and water".
>>18537081>>18537737Patriarch Kirill considers the 6 day creation as entirely metaphorical. Here is what the orthodox study Bible says of the creation account. By giving you 6 days of work and 1 of rest, god is inviting you to partake of rest from arduous work with him.
>>18536583SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT THE FUCK UPPPPPPPP BITCH!!!! IT’S A FUCKING METAPHOR I HATE YOU
>>18538755>official documents from government archives>Looks inside>either forgeries or nonexistent
>>18538759The historical, Biblical, and scientific evidence all supports a literal Genesis. If Genesis isn't literal, why do non-Jewish ancient historians and sources all agree on so much of what it says? Look at https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Armenians_(Movses_Khorenatsi). In chapter 4 he writes about how "Berossus, Polyhistor, and Abydenus" "are all in agreement on the Flood and its destruction of the world. They also agree with each other and with scripture that the number of patriarchs prior to the Flood was ten, including 'Xisutra' (yet another name for Noah)." Why is this if the Flood, Noah, and the Tower of Babylon are all some metaphor in a Hebrew book?
>>18538784The biblical flood myth was derived from the Mesopotamian one, not the other way around.
>>18538781>forgeriesBy any objective standard these records are authentic. Firstly, to set the scene, they were in the official archive in Edessa, Osroene's capital. These archives were one of the most secure environments for documents in the ancient world. This was somewhere where you have centralized, organized document storage and control for information critical to the functioning of the state.Khorenatsi talks about when these archives were first established at https://historians.armeniancathedral.org/book/t06Khor2_38.htm, writing that the Roman governors furnished Edessa and “in a grand manner and established their treasuries for the taxes collected from Armenia, Mesopotamia, and Assyria. They gathered there all the archives...They also transferred there the register of taxes and the temple archive”. So this archive was a big big deal. Like you might imagine for the repository of correspondence between heads of state!And that government was non-Christian, often viciously anti-Christian.In addition the records show a detailed knowledge of the time period. Take, for example, how the account states that Thaddeus cured “a man with gout, Abdu…much honoured in all the king's house”. The first-century Roman historian Tacitus verifies that there was in fact such a man. In his Annals, Book 6, chapter 31 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0078%3Abook%3D6%3Achapter%3D31), while discussing an incident where “some Parthian nobles came to Rome, without the knowledge of their king” to speak with Tiberius about Armenian affairs he states that “The chief adviser of the Parthians in sending the secret embassy was Sinnaces, a man of distinguished family and corresponding wealth. Next in influence was Abdus, an eunuch, a class which, far from being despised among barbarians, actually possesses power”.So even when it comes to minor details like the names of incidental officials, it is accurate.
>>18538784You posted “god made them male and female.” I posted “sabbath was made for man.” We can both quote mine Jesus to say either viewpoint.
>>18538787You could say the same things about Middle Eastern accounts and their similarities to Genesis as you could about anywhere. If the Israelites had lived in Dakota instead of Mesopotamia, people would be accusing them of stealing the Mandan legends. Read their tale of the creation and first man (from here: http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/FirstCreatorandLoneManv2-Mandan.html):"In the beginning, the surface of the Earth was covered with water and everything was dark.The First Creator and Lone Man were walking upon the surface of the water when they saw something move - a little duck.They sent the duck diving right down to the bottom of the ocean, and it brought back some sand. First Creator and Lone Man used this sand to make the Earth...First Creator was not very impressed with the land Lone Man had made. 'There's nowhere to hide', he said."The earth beginning as water, formless, dark, and void? The Creator being displeased with the first man's actions, and telling him he could not hide?Or take the Norse Prose Edda, which can be read here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre04.htm. It says that when Odin and his brothers killed the giant Ymir “there gushed forth so much blood out of his wounds that with it they drowned all the race of the Rime-Giants, save that one, whom giants call Bergelmir, escaped with his household; he went upon his ship, and his wife with him, and they were safe there. And from them are come the races of the Rime-Giants...Of the blood, which ran and welled forth freely out of his wounds, they made the sea”.If the Israelites had been in Scandinavia, critics would say that clearly the Israelites had stolen Genesis 6 from their neighbors since it says that before the Flood “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after”, who drown in the global Flood that then becomes most of the sea.
>>18538784There is actually really good evidence that a global flood never happened. water is very conspicuous.
>>18538796>"In the beginning, the surface of the Earth was covered with water and everything was dark.this is obviously referring to the primordial waters. chaos. this is before any animals at all.which by itself is an amazing concept, that ancient peoples had a grasp of the origins of life as coming from the dark waters. It's a damn shame that it's being twisted into some silly literalist perspective.
>>18538794I'm not the OP but saying Sabbath was made for man means Genesis is actually taking place over millions of years doesn't make sense as an argument. It's the polar opposite. It wouldn't make sense for the seventh day to be made for man if there were no men on the seventh day, or on any seventh day until nearly the end of the universe's history. So if anything it's mildly against your viewpoint if we want to go there.But what's definitively against your position is Paul in 1 Corinthians 11. In 11:8, he writes that "man did not come from woman, but woman from man". Clearly referring to Genesis. But from an evolutionary perspective this is impossible. You can't evolve males and then females come from them; males are by definition not what bears the eggs that become independent organisms. So there could be no point at which you had a population of men and women evolved from them.
>>18538762You're a brown fat catholic groyper
>>18538799>this is obviously referring to the primordial watersIndeed, I'm not even talking about the Flood specifically there. My point is that you could make the exact same arguments with parts of Genesis' creation accounts with the creation account of cultures all over the world. Because they all come from the same source.Like say the Hebrews settled in India instead of the Middle East, people would be saying they took the Flood account from the Indian account of Manu (their analogue to Adam) surviving a global flood in an ark with the animals because of Vishnu. According to https://navnathglory.in/matsya-purana-describes-the-creation-of-the-universe/"A significant portion of the Matsya Purana is dedicated to the story of Matsya Avatar, where Lord Vishnu assumes the form of a fish to rescue the sage Manu and the Saptarishi (seven great sages) from a catastrophic deluge.The narrative explains how Lord Matsya guides the boat carrying Manu, animals, and the Vedas through the floodwaters".>It's a damn shame that it's being twistedNo one who read the next prior to the 1800's ever said it was actually all along a metaphor for the world being billions of years old and humans evolving from animals. No a single person. Ever. That interpretation which, conveniently, exclusively comes about once there's pressure to believe that, is patently what the twisting is.>into some silly literalist perspective.Peter took the water literally. Look at 2 Peter 3:5 - "the earth was formed out of water and through water". This is what Genesis says. But it makes no sense from an evolutionary perspective, according to it the earth was formed from an accretion disc.
Judaism and by-extension Christianity and Islam are complete nonsense. There is no evidence of a complete Torah existing prior to the 5th century AUC (after of the founding of the city [of Rome]).The Exodus myth was written as a polemic against Manetho, not the other way around (again, no complete Torah prior to the 5th century AUC).Manetho was citing earlier sources and he has been proven correct by history. He was writing about the Shasu and his ONLY mistake was confusing them with the Hyksos. The Shasu were a group of nomads from the southern Levant who worshipped Yahweh and would later contribute to the ethnogenesis of the Jews. They were considered a nuance due to their tendency to raid the Egyptian borders and at some point in the late Bronze Age, they nearly succeeded in plundering Egypt but got their asses kicked and expelled. Manetho wrote this in his Aegyptiaca and the Jews, being mad that people remember this, wrote the myth of Exodus in response.Only those with a mental illness and leprosy would deny any of this. Also, Egypt didn’t even have the type of chattel slavery depicted in Exodus.
>>18538784>The historical, Biblical, and scientific evidence all supports a literal Genesis.There is nothing whatsoever in history nor any scientific evidence that supports a literal Genesis. Genesis has been disproved. You just don't know anything about science or history.
>>18538808The overwhelming majority of people and cultures do not have a global flood myth.
>>18538755>There's a ton of /his/torical evidence for Jesus' divinity.No, there isn't. Almost all the documents you're referring to are forgeries, as in, christians inserted their own writings into them.
>>18539425Are you going to respond to the argument I gave?>>18539445See >>18538792 for their authenticity. And that's just what I could fit into a 2000 character limit. There is much more.>>18539442So far in this thread we've looked at Europe, the Middle East, and India. Let's continue our eastward journey and see what we keep finding.We first get to Southeast Asia, according to https://books.google.com/books?id=4SsMAAAAIAAJ on page 262 in Burma the Karen tribe told of “the flood that submerged the world, except the ridge on top [of Mt. Thaw Thi]”.Heading east to Australia, according to http://www.sacred-texts.com/aus/mla/mla09.htm, the Aborgines told of a flood that “filled the deepest rivers and covered the land. Only the highest mountain peaks were visible, like islands in the sea”.Continuing east to North America, according to http://www.native-languages.org/creestory4.htm, the Cree had an account of when “the Great Beaver and the little beavers kept busy making all the waters of earth to rise until not one spot of dry land could be found. In great haste, Wisagatcak built a raft of logs and took many animals aboard with him”.I'm at the character limit, but we can keep going with this. Basically every region we look at, we find a global flood account.
>>18539503Do mexicans really?
>>18536583>Was Jesus a young earth creationist?I think Jesus actually understood Genesis.So, no.
>>18538784>Genesis isn't literalIt is. But not in the context you think.
>>18539503>Are you going to respond to the argument I gave?You gave no arguments.We have the list of cultures who believe in a global flood, it's something like one-quarter of them. No, we do not find global flood myths all around the world. Genesis is also mathematically disproved. There is nothing whatsoever in science, history, or math that supports a literal genesis.
>>18539506Yes in Mexico they did as well, among both the Aztecs and the Mayans. If you look at http://www.bigorrin.org/archive33.htm, the Aztecs believed the previous world (the fourth world, our present one being the fifth) had been destroyed by a worldwide flood because "the people grew very wicked and ignored the worship of the gods". Yet "Tlaloc, the god of rains, announced that he was going to destroy the world with a flood. However, Tlaloc was fond of a devout couple, Tata and Nena, and he warned them of the flood. He instructed them to hollow out a great log and take two ears of corn-one for each of them".Similarly, according to https://www.laits.utexas.edu/doherty/plan2/wren.html, the Mayans did as well, believing the men of the previous age were wiped out by a flood: "The second experiment created wooden people. This batch of mankind proved somewhat more successful as they could talk. Their bodies were sturdy; however, their skin was dry and crusty, which made it difficult for them to move in a coordinated manner. Worst of all, they had no memory and no emotions. Because of this they were unable to properly respect their creators.Furiously Hurricane sent a flood to do away with the failed wooden people. This flood is similar to that present in The Old Testament; however, the Mayan flood is the result of the gods failure to create a sufficient human race, whereas, in The Old Testament God floods the Earth because He is unsatisfied with the evil that has developed in the human race."After that came "third and final experiment" to make a sentient race, which was modern man.
>>18539514>We have the list of cultures who believe in a global flood, it's something like one-quarter of themThis seems to be the root of all of your objections so bring it forward, let's examine it.
>>18539533>This seems to be the root of all of your objectionsIt isn't, it's just one point raised against your erroneous claim that "all history confirms a global flood". The root of the claim is that it genesis has been scientifically and mathematically disproved.
>>18539540Are you going to actually show me this list, or not?>The root of the claim is that it genesis has been scientifically and mathematically disproved.There have been a lot of discussions along those lines. We're on /his/ so I think it would be much more interesting if we treat it as a historical claim and evaluate it on historical evidence.In the zone of history, your counter-argument is relying on referring to that list. Please show me where I can see this list for myself, and we will evaluate it.
>>18539548>we will evaluate itAre you one person or several? (and no, it can't be both)
>>18539574Oh by "we" I was referring to you and I
>>18539579Why are you claiming the guy you're talking to hasn't examined his own claim? Seems smug and rude as fuck tbqhwy, though maybe that's the intention.
>>18539581...You don't have the list, do you?
>>18539585I'm not the guy you were debating it.Will you answer my question or do you refuse?
>>18536583YEC is born from seeing the world as a test of faith, and then doing anything to prove loyalty. We may laugh at them but the wine aunt who is anti-racist is not that different- her faith is merely placed in social circles and equality - the god of her protestant style religion.
>>18538759>Patriarch Kirill considers the 6 day creation as entirely metaphoricalIm pretty sure everyone saw it this way for thiusands of years, including rambam, philo, all the gospel writers, Augustin, etc. Its a totally modern deception to interpret the bible litetal. Even the catholic idea of literal interpretation is more about preserving nomenclature, bot forcing the modern meanings. Catholics still interpret the words with different meanings, they just dont explain it to anyone anymore. They just develop personal Polysemy, and keep the religious word meanings holy (seperate/sacred).
>>18539645Idk about Maimonides and I know Philo had some sort of numerological interpretation, but Augustine only thought creation was instantaneous rather than actually taking 7 days and aside from that believed the rest of the account literally.
>>18539645>Its a totally modern deception to interpret the bible litetalIf that were true, Christians wouldn’t try to defend the historicity of exodus or claim that figures like Daniel existed
>>18539649Exactly. Augustine was an ultra-young earth creationist who thought even a week was too long. It's hilarious to see Catholics use him here, just hoping you never look up what he actually said
>>18539645Fucking cope. So the fall didn't happen?
>>18539710Truth still is that the vision of the tale was seen as metaphorical, not literal sequence of events. Augustine went with what he thought was reasonable, that an omnipotent God would create all at once, the story merely sequenced for the simple minds of mortals.
>>18539723The fall is a 4th dimensional event that caused the 3D reality show we have around us. We entered a highly dense metaphysical matrix that works on a zero-sum logic and cycles us on the lower bands of existence. However, love is the way out.
>>18539802>Truth still is that the vision of the tale was seen as metaphoricalIn the OPPOSITE way that you need. Augustine thought it couldn't possibly have taken a full week. The difference between Augustine and Ken Ham is Ken Ham believes the world is one week older than Augustine does. Kent Hovind believes in an older earth than Augustine. You're pointing to a hyper-YEC trying to make it a hyper-YEC text to say it doesn't teach YEC. >the story merely sequenced for the simple minds of mortalsWhy isn't the sequence in the order that evolutionary theory says it is?And tell me anon, when does Genesis become literal and stop being a metaphor? Is Abraham a metaphor? Is Joseph?
