>>18536888
In general, kinda. Though they're Slavic, they are RC. They stopped the Turks from taking Vienna, so I think that gives them a Westoid pass. That said, they are politically retarded, and seem to have a penchant for annoying their allies and enemies alike.

>>18536888
I would say they are now, yes. They are white Europeans who use the Latin alphabet and are mostly Western Christian.

During 1945-1991, I would say no. But before and after that, they definitely are.

>>18536888
Ahhh the most powerful European dynasty wants to intermarry with us, better annul the marriage, marry a pagan and set back our relations with Western Europe a thousand years.

>>18536888
Spain and Serbia really should be yellow, Scotland should be red.

> Be Scotland
> Join England, Usher in British Empire
> World War Happens.
> UK sacrifices it all to save Europe.
> No More Empire. No More Zimbabwe Gold, no more Indian Cotton, no more Suez.
> Claim oppression by England
> mfw people beleive it

>>18536888
Is this how american marxists view europe? Surely no one from europe would be this uneducated.

"i wish subhuman 90 iq niggers with white skin existed" Russians:

>>18537233
It's generous to call them American when they're most likely Eastern European detritus.

>>18536888
No

File: scottish fucks.png (1.52 MB, 1200x800)

1.52 MB PNG

>>18537135
how did they convince themselves and the world that they are victims and not collaborators? their contributions to the empire and particularly america is vastly understated

>>18536888
Poland started as an eastern flank of the western civilization due to being catholic since the beginning.
Currently the west is a full tranny leftard retardation (the opposite of its founding principles) - and everybody knows what happens to the east of Poland - so it stands as a single bastion of sanity in a clown world and is neither west nor east. It barely holds tho.

>>18536888
Polish volksgeist has always been that of the bulwark of Europe and it makes sense. While it's currently a fraction of it's original size, before it was ripped apart Poland stretched along the enteriety of only solid land connection between Asia and Europe, aside from the barely passable Scandinavia which still had a chokepoint in the form of Danish Straits.
This will net me a lot of bad looks from Poles, but Poland and Russia are quite alike in a way, standing on the edge between East and West. Neither is fully Western or Eastern and both had moments where they were closer to either side, but where Russia still is deeply stuck with the Asiatic mindset of slavery and lack of individualism, Poland has long since firmly thrown it's lot with the West.

>>18537135
> Claim oppression by England
> mfw people beleive it
Except they didn't. The 2014 independence referendum failed for a reason.
The whole Braveheart momentum was exhausted when Westminster granted devolution in 1998.
Even Brexit wasn't enough to revamp Scottish separatism

>>18538264
>Russia still is deeply stuck with the Asiatic mindset of slavery and lack of individualism
this random buzzword schizobabble is why i completely ignore discourse about russia now, it's always some retards saying nonsensical shit. what the fuck does this even mean? what is an 'asiatic mindset of slavery and lack of individualism', and how is the west following a different mindset? this is just random buzzwords. none of the russians i have met are seriously distinguishable from westerners.

>>18536888
>spain
>rich
poland is now richer than spain bro

Do people still believe the whole Europe got rich from colonialism shit in the big 2026? Do you honestly think conquering and taking the resources of a bunch of illiterate niggers living in huts made Europe successful?

>muh oppression
Expected better from this board. No actually I didn't.

>>18537135
Scotland acts like white women:
>Benefits heavily from the oppression of others, and actively engages in the process.
>When all is said and done, claim to be a victim.
Very despicable behaviour.

>>18536888
if we would divide europe into only east and west, poland would be west by all means. PPR, under soviet rule, was clearly east-ward, but not from their own violition. when SSR died (good riddeance), poland very explicitly decided to separate itself from anything russian and spearheaded joining NATO and EU, with clear goal of integrating into that world, and in which, imo, poland succeded.

interesting sidenote
polish main right-wing party, is firmly antirussian

>>18537007
hungary and bohemia wrnt intermarry way. they've ended up as not much more then austrian subjects

>>18536920
>defending viena
characterising entire nation by single event that transpired more then 300 years ago, is way to reductionist, especially that today's population doesn't have much in common with society at the event

>>18536888
Polish here, just from the wild east of the country. No. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.

I'll give you an example of a western country - Sweden. All jokes aside(however truthful they are), Swedes some of the most brilliant people out there. The country has like 10 million inhabitants and yet, somehow I can just run my mouth with important Swedish global brands. Husqvarna, Scania, SKF, ABB, Ericsson, Volvo, Saab, Ikea.
Even the latter, a subject of joke has completely changed the way cheap furniture is built. We have quite big furniture industry ourselves but when you buy some other cheap furniture brand(Black Red White, let's say), you will see the same connection bits as in Ikea, the Swedes literally changed the way cheap furniture is constructed and everyone is just playing catch-up. Same applies to the Germans, Dutch, let alone British who are just titans when it comes to brilliance.

We're not that. Anyone pretending otherwise is retarded.
>But we wuz victims of XYZ
The brilliance of the British shows up as early as during the Anglo-Saxon period, you're coping.

>>18541077
>Germans, Dutch, let alone British who are just titans when it comes to brilliance.
german brilliance like closing nuclear plants and moving industry to china for cheap labor only to have chinks steal all know-how from them? British brilliance like being the most draconian western country where natives are treated like second class citizens compared to paki migrants?

>>18541077
brilliance is not a measure of westness
the west is about culture, shared englightment value, humanism, liberal democracy, greeko-roman foundation of philosophy, material wealth, and clear self-declared desire to be part of the west

poland matches in almost all, if not just all, cireria

>>18541312
Ok I'll put it like this.
Germans had coal mines. British had coal mines. Both countries are producing high end coal mining equipment to this day.
Poland is slowly getting rid of its coal mines. It will only turn them into tourist attraction, as no company building mining machinery was ever established here.
This shows up outside of mining, in almost any industry you can think of. Whatevers the state of Britain Rolls Royce still builds world class aircraft engines. However outdated European electronics industry is Nexperia still procuces chips in Britain and designs them in the Netherlands. Meanwhile Poland was at first just slave exporter, then grain exporter, now an assembly line(workhours exporter). Also I'd recommend going outside if you think we're immune to shitskin infestation.
>>18541317
1. Beyond modern culture being just american culture, the traits that have remained particular to is are more eastern. Just the mere fact of being part of vodka belt says it all.
>Enlightenment values
The crown achievement of the enlightenment is the panopticon. The perfect prison, a totalitarian state. Those arose both in the west and in the east.
>Graeco-Roman foundation
You can't read either of these languages, Graeco-Roman foundation is shared to basically all mainline Christians sans oriental churches.
>Philosophy
Name world renowned Polish philosopher. The best you're going to get is a footnote to de Montaigne.
>Material wealth
Saudis are more western than Poles, I get it!
>Self declared desire to be part of the west
I self declare as assault helicopter.

Mere fact of asynchronous development of serfdom, parallel with the Byzantine empire and Russia is stronger basis for our position in the world than any of these.

>>18541385
>The crown achievement of the enlightenment is the panopticon
id argue there were things that not only were more influential, like scientifical revolution and rise of individualism. i hardly want to diminish the panopticon idea, but calling it a crown, is just dishonest
like it or not, it was eligthment that gave us the industrial revolution, the key to european domination and rise of the west

>Graeco-Roman foundation
translations exist, while reading in its native language has benefites, ideas can, and had been, adopted by translation
and yes, all christian churches are closer to western world then any other religion

>polish philosophers
i can give you that, poland didn't produced any world famous philosophers. altough it can be partially blamed on different focus in the century, 19th, which was regaining their country.

>saudis are western
if we would compare only wealth, then peak western country would be a singapur in asia. wealth is one of, not the only one characteristic, so saudies being richer doesn't discredit quite strong polish economy.

>attack helicopter
no human cannot be a helicopter, but the west is entirely made out of countries (last time ive checked, poland was a country), so this comparison is absurd.
nation's selfindentification is a basis for its existance, no modern nation exist without it. some grupings cant be changed by self indentification, like those based in genetics, others, way more fluid, like vague aligance to the west, can be somewhat influenced.
it also clearly shows nation's ambitions

>>18541385
cont.

on the other hand, what does poland have today in common with eastern (russian) bloc?
drinking vodka? choice of one bewerage hardly decide civilisation type

slavic heretiage? that is just prorussian shilling of saying "slavs should unite (under our heel)", the west easily encompas multitude of way more different nationalities.

economical ties to the east? polish trade is completly focused on trading weasternly and southernly. trade with the east doesn't even account for 10%

nations' relations? you would be hardly pressed to find any more rusophobic country as poland. relations with ukries are strained at best

political organisations? poland was in one, under soviet rule. it hated it and wanted out. and they did get out, paying with blod. now poland is in the EU, most western organisation there is

military cooperation? eastern block is considered as only real enemy, and all armanents are made to fight the east. poland also is in the NATO, the very organisation that started west-east divide

history? throught basically all polish history, poles were focused on activly fighting the east, not indentifying as them. by joining latin catholic church, and keeping within it, it gave clear signal it wants/consider itself as a western-aligned country

>>18536888
>hungary poor

yeah happens if you take away all of the resources bases of the country FAGGOT, even so we were quite prosperous in the 1920-30-40s, especially compared to something like romania

>>18541545
>on the other hand, what does poland have today in common with eastern (russian) bloc?
Being part of the political bloc isn't being part of the west, you're purposefully mixing these things even though they are self-evidently different(was Germany not part of the west during the war?).

The Polish people, like all slavs are more survival focused than the westerners. This is something I've beaten you over the head with, the fact of no significant contributions to philosophy and economy that at every single point of time was underlined by cheap labour rather than technological or structural brilliance is a great indicator of that.
The psychological makeup, dictated by genetics shows tendency to sub-clinical psychopathy rather than sociopathy. This shows up with the leadership being usually more openly corrupt, willing to accept senseless sacrifice both in present and in retrospespect(nobody in France celebrates the latter parts of the Franco-Prussian war, meanwhile try to say something bad about the Warsaw uprising). The westerners are more likely to be sub-clinically sociopathic, they achieve success both in politics and war via stratagem(1940 French campaign, Tony Blairs entire political career)

The form of political organisation within the Polish politics is again more eastern than western. If you look at the structure of successful political parties in for instance Sweden, Denmark, Germany or the UK they're all democratic-oligarchical in character, in Poland the most successful model after the last 36 years is evidently the model centering around a single leader. The electoral victories of PiS and PO can he lined with greater involvement of these leaders - Tusk fucks off to Brussels, PO loses, Kaczyński gets less involved because of age(while Tusk comes back), PiS loses.

Being part of the vodka belt is a good indicator btw dismissing it offhand is idiotic, alcohol is a centerpiece of socialisation in Europe so the preference says something.

>>18541799
The longer the Polish spend pretending to be western, the longer they'll feel inferior to the westerners. Even the economic development in the last decades isn't some kind of westernisation, all that happened was extremely inefficient system was abolished and Poland came back to the position it held in GDP/Capita stack in 1938. Expect relative stagnation from now on - if the amount of immigrants brought here within the last few years hasn't made it clear for you already.

>>18541807
Oh and I forgot to add. You claim is that the most important achievement of the enlightenment is the scientific revolution. Great at least that's concrete and measurable. Poland is a country with significant scholarisation ratio and almost endless workforce in academia due to the amount of masters students doctors can use to do tedious research to contribute to their grand projects. The spending on r&d is smaller than OECD average(remember what I've said about economy based on cheap labour not innovation?), but if you have minions to do labour for free it can outweigh it.
Publication volume-wise, Polish academia is roughly on par with the size of the economy, but they are about 30% less likely to be cited by anyone than the average(4 times less likely than the Dutch, 3 times less likely than Germans). Only 2 Polish universities are in the top 300 institutions rankings while the Netherlands, with smaller population has over 10.

The backwardness of our academia is reflected in the private sector. Polish businesses spend 0,9% of GDP on R&D, the EU average is 1,5%, core western countries have it closer to 3, while Romania, Poland, Bulgaria and the Baltics drag it down(real west right there). Polish firms are 50% less likely to introduce innovation than EU peers, we produce less than average amount of patents.

And mind you the only slavic country which I'd consider western, the Czech Republic, isn't like Poland when it comes to those metrics. The fact that we're civilisational easterners just so happens to manifest itself everywhere. This shouldn't dictate our foreign politics, but trying to pretend we're western is civilisational transsexualism. It's like the haitians wearing european garb after murdering their masters or liberians thinking they'll build a functional society because they've copied the American constitution

>>18541821
Just on the sidenote, Polish academic history is roughly in line with everything we've said so far. There's good grunt work but very little methodological innovation and application of methodology in places it normally "doesn't belong" to is scoffed at(structuralist comparativism is celebrated when it comes to Modzelewski who applied it to society but when Banaszkiewicz who applied it to legends did it he was deemed controversial).