>Nazism is worse than Communism because the latter have a noble goalThis is such a fucking retarded argument yet I hear it all the time from libtards and even normie conservatives.I reject the idea that communists have a more noble goal than national socialists, if the goals of national socialism COULD be achived using liberal means where everyone is happy and nobody gets hurt, would that really be such a bad thing?>But that's a fantasySo is achieving communism without violence or atleast non-liberal measures.>It makes me feel bad o algoI don't care.>I'm brown and I want to existYou'll die one day, we'll all die one day, whatever. The goal would be national socialism in the long run so we wouldn't have to kill you...THE WHOLE POINT is that the measures that leftists take to reach their goals have just as many, if not more casualties than the far-right, with the added problem that you'll destroy your own civilization in the meantime.I think the real reason why there is such a bias towards communism and against fascism in the mainstream is rooted in two primary factors, one of them sociological, the other psychological:1) When leftists talk about their political goals they have a tendency to only talk about the results they want, but spend far less time talking about how to achieve their goals. They want free healthcare, free housing, better schools, etc. but when you ask them how to achieve said goals they rarely have a more detailed plan than "tax the rich". Right-wingers on the other hand talk primarily about WHAT they want to do, and a lot of the times that makes people uncomfortable.2) Modern people have a deep rooted hatered for hierarchies, the idea that some things or people/peoples are better than others.>I think both sides are just as badThat's fine, but the left is in the drivers seat and controlls our public and "politically neutral" institutions and have done so for the last 60 years.
Fascism isn't intrinsically racist
>>18539397In 1982, China removed the clause in it's Constitution which said that the state must own the means of production. They allowed private property, private production."Socialism with Chinese characteristics", is Fascism. China is today a fascist state not a communist, or even socialist one.
>>18539416>Drooling poltard
>>18539416I guess the USSR under the NEP was "fascist" too then, retard?
>>18539399Fascism is an Italian supremacist ideology per se.It's not racist in the sense of prioritising blue-eyed blond-haired humans but its racist towards peoples Italians don't get along with (Slavs, Arabs and Greeks mainly)
>>18539399I said national socialism.
>>18539397nazism is all about conquering and murdering and turning people into serfs to serve the military
>>18539479All such things were carried out by the anti-Nazi Soviets as well
>>18539484Soviets weren't invading forgein countries in order to murder their citizens, destory their culture and replace them with Russians
>>18539487Here Ivan, this map is in Russian so you should have no issue whatsoever reading itWould you like to tell me Stalin isn't responsible for Katyn while you are at it?
>>18539515Were populations of those conquered regions murdered and replaced with Russians?
>>18539434Good argument.>>18539437> the USSR under the NEPYes of course it was.All socialism and communism is fail. What is socialism? It is state owned means of production.What is fascism? State controlled means of production.To quote Hitler on this matter.> "The party is all-embracing. It rules our lives in all their breadth and depth… There will be no license, no free space, in which the individual belongs to himself. This is Socialism… Let them then own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers." ― HitlerSo. Private ownership of the means of production, but controlled by the party and the state.All socialism eventually becomes fascism when it contacts reality. All socialists become fascists.
>>18539532thats a cool quote from the failed austrian dead tranny but can you point some facists countries to prove it?
>>18539438lol this is bullshit. Italian fascism was never about race. Fuck off boomer.
>>18539519https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification#World_War_IIhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Russians_in_post-Soviet_states
>>18539397Fascism is just a stone toss away from communism.The reason it's always communists who screams "Fascist!" the loudest is because they're terrified of losing monopoly of the word, even more terrified of normies figuring out that virtually every single communist states in practice became what fascism is in theory.
>>18539547>Italian fascism was never about raceI'm sorry to hurt your mulatto heart who hopes for a wholesome chungus inclusive Fascism, João, but Italy literally passed racial laws in 1938
>>18539551so the population wasn't murdered and replaced with russians, that's what your links says
>>18539560Yes, Baltic people still exist today, so do Ukrainians.The former are not fond of Russians and the latter are literally fighting a war with them.I wonder why?
>>18539397>if the goals of national socialism COULD be achived using liberal means where everyone is happy and nobody gets hurt, would that really be such a bad thing?That's a big if but I think the bigger problem is that Germans are very unlikely to try it again because the Nazis were evil and crazy and it was a disaster. Some lunatic mass-mobilization war ideology like that? Also populations are getting old so we're just going to fight wars with robots in the future. The country that has had conditions which most resemble Weimar Germany today might paradoxically be Russia after the collapse of the USSR where you have angry patriots like Alexander Prokhanov talking about how a mystical divine history-creating force will resurrect Russia in a bloody war of expansion. But those people have not managed to get into power directly like they did in Germany, and in any case the war they're supporting has been a debacle.>That's fine, but the left is in the drivers seat and controlls our public and "politically neutral" institutions and have done so for the last 60 years.One thing conservatives do point out is that a lot of leftists in North America (or some other rich country like Australia) are a bunch of overcoddled, miseducated spoiled brats. It's more socially to be open about being a communist in their circles but there are countries with experience with communism where the hammer & sickle is treated as a symbol on par with the swastika. Like there's just a huge number of people around who are like communism is a dystopian nightmare, dude. The most direct, blunt anti-communist stuff I've heard IRL has been from immigrants from countries like Peru which was torn apart by a particularly crazy Maoist insurgency in the 1980s. I'm not talking about people from some rich white elite in Lima saying that either. Also different from how American conservatives talk about it, like how they say the Democrats are communists. More this:https://youtu.be/AHI7llBhoqo
>>18539559Kek yes, in 1938, after Italy had aligned with Germany and Mussolini wanted to pander to Hitler.Before that (and before passing antisemitic laws) the fascist Italian party had some of the highest number of jewish party members.Because before becoming junior partner of Germany, the Italian fascists didnt give two shits about race or antisemitism.Nice try tho ignorant boomer retard. You're only parroting outdated myths from hollywood "documentaries".Find me a single sentence in any Italian or Spanish fascist manifesto that even remotely mentions race.You clearly dont understand what fascism is; fascism is about absolving your identity and become the identity of the state. That means all kinds of identity including ethnic. Fascism was about bringing absolute unity to a near religious devotion to the state.
>>18539567becasue they were opressed and russified, but they weren't all murdered and replaced with russians based on racist pseudoscience
>>18539577>Kek yes, in 1938, after Italy had aligned with Germany and Mussolini wanted to pander to Hitler.>Before that (and before passing antisemitic laws) the fascist Italian party had some of the highest number of jewish party members.And?That was still Benito Mussolini who approved of the change. You know, the literal founder of Fascism?Is João from 4chan by any chance more of a Fascism expert than Duce himself?
>>18539578Nazis didn't replace anyone either, outside of historical German borders.Warsaw wasn't Germanized, neither was Beograd or Athens or MinskThe exception is what is today Western Poland, which belonged to Germany before 1918
>>18539586yes they did https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Zamo%C5%9B%C4%87https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81%C3%B3d%C5%BA_Ghetto
>>18539397>free healthcare, free housing, better schools, etcWelfare Capitalism isn't socialist though
>>18539593>>18539586also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pabst_Plan
>>18539582>That was still Benito Mussolini who approved of the change.It's not in the tenants of the fascist ideology you retard. It was something Mussolini did as a personal preference, because he wanted to align with Germany.That's like saying that racism is in the ideology of democracy because USA had Jim Crowe laws and Australia had a 'White Australia' policy. You cant just cherrypick attributes from a state and say it's now the core tenant of the ideology they operate under. You have to look at the ideology itself to make that conclusion.And no Mussolini was not the single founder of fascism. Fascism had been developed by a number of thinkers and academics over a period of time, and it had been implented independently in other states such as the Falangists in Spain. Even Mussolini did not singlehandedly found fascism in Italy, the manifesto was written by Gentile, and if you read the manifesto from Antionio De Rivera, you can see direct paralells to Italian fascism.What you dont see however is any mention of race or antisemitism, because it didnt exist in the ideology.Again, you're just some sorry idiot whos been taken in by the boomer myth of fascism because mustach man created an offshoot movement that was entirely based on race. You have no clue what you're talking about. The best thing you can do is to stop parroting this myth, especially in a history discussion board.
>>18539593>>18539597>they were murdered and replacedBut they still exist tho????>it’s the thought that countsThen the Russians and Poles are just as bad. Poland was moving ethnic Balts and Urukrainians off of their core territory as wellPoland wasn’t even Polish it was only 65% historically Polish according to their own census.
>>18539532You are unfathomably stupid, but that's the fate of anyone who spends years reading /pol/ brainrot
>>18539627How is it /pol/ to say that both communism and fascism are authoritarian collectivist ideologies? Where does /pol/ fit in all this?
>>18539622Poland hasn't bothered moving Ukrainians until 70 years ago, when the rerards still tried fighting WW2 many years after their nazi handlers killed themselves. So instead of waging war against UPA hidden in mountains they repopulated every village in the region 100s km to the west to cut off food supplies to the rebels pillaging the towns to survive
>>18539622>But they still exist tho?They do but they were murdered and replaced in 1939-1944 by nazis, i don't see the problem >Poland was moving ethnic Balts and Urukrainians off of their core territory as wellThere wasn't and industrial scale murder and colonisation of those regions by Poland like nazis did
>>18539397nazis always get raped and colonised by Slavic Chads
>>18539479No, those are the MEASURES the nazis took to achieve their goal of Lebensraum, if it could be achieved by liberal means... what would be so bad about it?>serfsOk that's a result you couldn't achieve liberally... but now we have tech to serve basically the same function.
>>18539668how do you conquer and murder people by liberal means
>>18539671You don't, you encourage "gentrification" and mass migration to replace the natives over longer periods.
>>18539674i don't think nazis wanted for other miniorities to live alongside with germans "over longer periods"
>>18539677Well you encourage policies that will reduce birth rates among the natives and you slowly push them out. Simple.
>>18539681and how do you do that
>>18539682Idk, but it shouldn't be that hard, just look at what's happening in the west right now. Well... it hasn't exactly been liberal in this case since no one voted for the replacement and the left has taken over our public institutions to promote their propaganda... but if you think that is fair play then you should be able to do something roughly equivalent in eastern europe... only this time the immigrants will be rich aswell, like Australia with the Chinese only more extreme. There are large areas of the country that are basically Chinese colonies at this point and whites tend to leave those areas.
>>18539685>look at what's happening in the west right now.I see, you will bulid them big cities and give the minorities freedom and life of luxury so at some point they will start having less kids as the povery dropsWhy didn't Hitler ever thought about it? Or maybe that' was the true reason why Auschwitz had cinemas, pools, football pitches, jaccuzis, horse race track and internet cafes
>>18539397>If the goal of a completely conformist society where each individual is a tool of the state and worships a dictator and believes unquestioningly in pseudoscience cooked up to glorify their race, if that could all be achieved by liberal means, would that be so bad?Yes, I would say so.
>>18539688Nah, the real reason for a drop in birth-rates have to do with the 60s boomer-communist revolutions across the west.
>>18539693That's not really the goal of nazism though, it's about breeding a world-dominant master-race.
>>18539697so you want to spread communism in the name of nazism?
>>18539701To destroy your racial enemies? Sure.
>>18539705USSR had a far higher fertility rate than nazi germany tho
>>18539720Unsure if that's true, but the USSR was different from western civil-rights communism (the new left) and had state policies to increase fertility.
>>18539653Ok...
>>18539397>drinking piss is better than eating shit
>>18539783The point is that one is normalized and the other isn't. One is viewed as benign, if missguided, and the other isn't. One is orthodoxy within the academy, media, cultrual sphere etc. and the other is anathema.Untill communism is viewed as being equally (or more) evil than nazism by the populace we will keep drifting leftward, and that's a bad thing.
>>18539727>and had state policies to increase fertilitythey did not, they had 4,7 children per woman while nazi germany who had million different pro child policies had about 2,3 children per woman >>18539810people are just not big fans of biological racism, genocides and militarism
>>18539825>they had 4,7 children per woman while nazi germany who had million different pro child policies had about 2,3What time periods are we talking about here? Also are we including jews and concentration camp inmates in the population total for the German case?>biological racism, genocides and militarismThe soviets also commited genocides, militarism doesn't have to be bad, and biological racism was the norm among western intellectuals before the end of the war, even if it wasn't exactly the nazi variety.
>>18539825Germany had a birthrate of 14.7 per 1000 in 1933, 20.3 in 1939, for Russia it went from 42.2 per 1000 in 1928 to 31.0 in 1932 before they started pushing more trad policies to increase the TFR.You have to keep in mind that Russia had a rural populace untill the 30s, and Germany was already urbanized aswell.
You know, it's funny. The same lefties who believe eugenics is flawed because we lack perfect knowledge of the human genome and might accidentally select away important traits (Sickle cell contra Malaria is a common example) think we know enough about how humans work at a psychological and sociological level (not to speak of at an economic level) to be able to determine in what direction society should head and also what policies should be implemented in order to achieve them.A lot is said about the "horseshoe theory" and while I think it's a silly one, nazis and communists are directly opposed in the goals they want to reach, there are usually rough analogies between the two sides in what measures they want to take to achieve the goal, even if it's at a quite deep level...
>>18539399>>18539416>>18539434This is the right answerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi-Maoism
>>18539779Indian obsessing with rape.
>>18539697>lives in the most unchallenged capitalist era of modern times>"dude...le communist libtards are shitting my pants again..."Severe schizophrenia.
>>18540894Taxes have increased and you now have limited freedom over your own workforce due to quotas and middle management, but sure. In what ways are we more capitalist than ever in your view?
>>18540894No really, explain how I "live in the most unchallenged capitalist era of modern times"? I'm genuinely interested...
>>18539547If they didn't care about race at all what was the point of the Lebensraum plan intended for Africa?
>>18541224Since 90s, humanity has been living the era of the blackest reaction.T: different anon
>>18541366And yet the west is closer to communism than ever, the "opressed peoples" are on their way to becoming the opressors themselves and the position of international communism stronger than ever, especially if you consider China to be communist (debatable).
>>18539397haha OP I love froggo XD
>>18541991Cool :p
Communism is obviously worse than fascism and if you don’t see how you need your brain checked
>>18542295Sure, but ~90% of the population disagrees.
>>18539612It would be much easier to take EFLs seriously if they knew how to spell tenet.
>>18539630He’s likely just a retarded tankie that almost certainly goes on twitter and calls anything he doesn’t like fascism. I actually know people like that and it drives them up a wall when you compare their beloved communism/socialism to fascism
