Is it just me, or is there a real attempt to rewrite the history of the Pacific War? I’m seeing more and more claims that it was actually the Soviets who won the Pacific War, or that it was a Chinese victory.Can’t we just accept reality? It was a 95% American victory. The United States is the one that destroyed the Japanese navy, bombed Japan, and wrecked its industries. No other Allied power was capable of doing that. Not China, not the UK, and not the USSR.
>>18540946Tankies and vatniks pretend that Russia defeated the collective west alone in WW2. Historical revisionism, ideology and the cult of WW2 has completely destroyed their brains.
>>18540946America begged the Soviet Union to invade Manchuria and Korea for them. It's why the DPRK exists today
>>18540995The Soviets attacked the 9th. Japan surrendered the 15th. They had already lost by then.
>>18540995Manchuria and Korea were strategically meaningless.
>>18541056Then why did the US beg Russia to invade Manchuria and delineate it to the Soviet sphere of influence, betraying America's other ally the KMT?This occurred at the Yalta conference which the Chinese had specifically not been invited to.If Manchuria was strategically meaningless then America betrayed its Chinese ally for no reason
>>18540995Just like how the Soviets begged for lend-lease, or how they begged for the invasion of Italy and France?
>>18541068FDR asked Russia to invade Manchuria because he was a commie who wanted Russia to expand its sphere of influence and for the KMT to be defeated.
>>18541068Because FDR had intended to invade Japan and wanted the Soviets to assist in that invasion. He didn't just want them to invade Manchuria but Japan itself.
>>18541068Because at that time they thought it would help to get Japan to surrender fast. In 1945, it was no longer needed, Japan was going to surrender and the Americans knew this.
>>18540946The Chinese are notorious for just randomly rewriting history. The East doesn’t have the same desire for facts and logic we do when it comes to history.
>>18540946China was pretty much irrelevant until recently when it came to the greater world wars of this earth. They had internal Civil Wars and were preoccupied with being impoverished and stupid during that time. They rewrite this as The Century of Humiliation.
>>18540946The movie Pressure tried to make it out that a random Scottish Meteorologist won the war and Americans were just fumbling along. They really are the most stupid pieces of shit.
>>18540946It was always a convoluted topic. Soviet attack on Manchuria being a factor in capitulation is already mentioned by that French journalist who spent the war in Japan for instance(forgot his name). There are some factors that kind of point that way, the main point was that the Japanese saw 2 exit plans from the war that didn't involve surrender:>They get Stalin to mediate peace>They manage to push back initial invasion of the home isles no matter the costs and get a negotiated peace Their fears were:>Soviets get anything to say about post war government in Japan(their main goal was preserving the position of the emperor in any possible form)>The Americans firebomb the ricefields right before harvestsThe USSR joining the war made the mediation impossible and their influence on post war Japanese politics a real possibility. This didn't take away the fact that Americans could still firebomb Japanese food supply or that the suicidal attempts at beating the invasion back may have failed, but it seems that the danger of soviet influence and impossibility to find a mediator made the civilian administration able to overpower the army(also, even though the defeat of the Kwangtung army in Manchuria was predictable, it was still a loss of prestige for them internally).I think it's fair to say that as with every decision there's not always a single one factor that decides it all and additional factors piling up can change it.As for China, it was always a resource drain but I'm not sure whether it would've ever moved the needle on the eventual result of the war.
>>18541418This was the most stupid thing I've ever read in my life. Ye Gads give my minute back.
>>18541418I think the most reasonable answer is that both the Soviet invasion and the second atomic bomb was what tilted Japan to surrender.These two events occured on the exact same day, with only hours apart. It was a shock-and-awe of two combining factors that immediately forfeit Japan of its plan for "Kantai Kessen" to mediate favorable peace terms.Like you said, the entry of the USSR meant that Japan was diplomatically bankrupt and could thus not mediate any peace through the weight of the USSR.Likewise, the Japanese believed that the bombing of Hiroshima was something the Americans couldnt repeat again, that they were faking their nuclear arsenal. The bombing of Nagasaki came as an equal shock to the "big six" of the Japanese cabinet.Some historians stress that Japan had wanted to surrender for quite some time, but that they were still missing a legitimate reason to surrender towards the die-hard military office that insisted that Japan must resist to the last rock. The atomic weapon and USSR entry provided the civilian office with the perfect argument that surrender was the only option remaining. It's a sad story because Japan had largely accepted unconditional surrender with just a couple of reservations, but the allies said no, only to accept Japans unconditional surrender with a couple of reservations, but only after an addtional million Japanese had died.
>>18540946"Stalin had been in league with Hitler since August 23rd of 1939.And that devilish diabolical relationship had benefited both sides until Hitler turned on Stalin on June 22nd, 1941. And then Stalin all of a sudden became our friend and wanted help. And at wars end, it is true the Red Army, the Russian Soviet Red Army killed three out of four German soldiers. That's where most of the bloodletting was. 20 million Russians died on the Eastern Front."
>>18541443See >>18541444
>>18541445See what?The post is not even related to Japan you retard. You're in the wrong thread
>>18541443>It's a sad story because Japan had largely accepted unconditional surrender with just a couple of reservationsYou should be intellectually honest and describe what these reservations were.>no disarmament of japanese armed forces>no occupation of japanese territory>japan to conduct their own independent war crimes trials>position of emperor preserved (the only one they got in the end)It's pretty fucking obvious why the allies said no to this.
>>18540946Anyone who thinks it wasn't primarily a US victory is an idiot. While the Soviet entry into the war was a factor in Japan's surrender along with China tying down the Japanese army, they would not have surrendered if the US did not sink their navy, blockade the country, destroy most cities and industry through fire bombing, leave their army stranded far from Japan, and possess an indeterminate amount of nuclear weapons from their perspective, two of which were used. Anyone who truly believes that none of this directly lead to the defeat of Japan, is once again, an idiot.
>>18541475>You should be intellectually honestSo should youYou listed the reservations prior to mid-1945By mid-1945 the Japanese had largely accepted that the postdam declaration had to be accepted but the fact that the fate of the emperor was left ambiguous is what led them to resist unconditional surrender
>>18541476>China tying down the Japanese armyJapan had maybe 10 divisions with maneuver capabilities and none of them were in China once the Pacific War got underway. Japan's 80+ divisions in China were occupation forces and wouldn't have been good for fighting real armies.
>>18541068Wasn’t that because Chiang got stuck in Egypt without an English interpreter because decades earlier he had tried to speak English to an ambassador, mixed up his signals, and told him he loved him, thus causing him to refuse to learn English out of embarrassment?
>>18541609Japan had well over a million troops in China during the Pacific War, with another 300,000+ in Burma, which was an extension of the war in China. Whether they were used for occupation or offense does not make a different, as they were still tied down in China either way but regarding offense, over half a million were actively used during the Ichi-Go offensive. Those forces were armed with guns, tanks, and artillery, all things useful for fighting armies that Japan needed. And considering the fact that Japan was arming school kids with bamboo spears in preparation for American invasion, I would say yes, they did need those troops with their guns, ammo, armor, and artillery, and they actively did want them but could not even move them as their ability to move troops over sea was long destroyed by this point.
>>18541615What? No. China wasn't at Yalta because Stalin didn't want them to be there and FDR was a kiss ass to Stalin.
>>18541492>largely acceptedExcept that they hadn't, and the personal involvement of the emperor post Hiroshima/Nagasaki/Manchurian Offensive is what tipped the balance. It doesn't matter if 2 or 3 or even 4 members of the "big six" had accepted it, as unanimity was required or the council would dissolve itself. The IJA representative in the council of six was still prepared to fight, but when the emperor intervened to order them to accept terms he finally relented.
>>18541443I think internal politics are also important there. Kwantung army was technically undefeated, even if it was clear it's no match to the Red Army, the Japanese army could've always bring that up. The firebombing of harvests was a threat but it was hypothetical. The atomic bombs in combination with the red army taking Manchuria simply made the military toothless, the americans could clearly exterminate them through bombing with their fancy new weapons and the army was beaten on every front, what made them think they'll hold out on the isles? As usual no decision is made because of a single factor, the decision to surrender isn't either.
>>18540946For all the major takes on WW2, I look towards the medium of video games because anyone now can make all that other slopaganda that they want.
>>18541665This nigga thinks IJA had 200 motorized divisions with divisional artillery and tanks.
>>18542272Ichi-Go alone involved around 800 tanks and 1,500 artillery pieces. If you think that's insignificant, you just might be retarded.
>>18542316>800 tanksnigga Japan didn't have 800 actual tanks. if they could somehow scramble together 800 "tanks" they had to have been these toy tanks that weren't even proof against 50 cal.
>>18542366Feel free to look up quite literally any source on Ichi-Go. You will find figures of around 800 tanks in each and every single one.Japanese light tanks are terrible against other heavier tanks but great against infantry and great at supporting infantry. Pretending like 800 tanks, 1,500 artillery pieces, and half a million soldiers is meaningless is a strange hill to die on.
>>18542389>1,500 artillery pieceslmao counting Sengoku-era tubes and knee mortars, maybe
Brown people seethe a lot about America. It’s not complicated
