A new Rb1 tree just dropped, this time for Bell Beaker/Corded Ware/Yamnaya. What does this tell us, /his/?
>>18543091>Corded Ware and Yamnaya are cousins, not father and sonBingo. Now, all that remains is for it to become common knowledge of among PIE /his/ wannabe scholars that the original PIE language came from the Caucasus-Lower Volga (CLV) culture, from which the Indo-Anatolian branch derives, that the Yamnaya core was formed from mostly intermediate CLV and a Dnipro-Don population of either UNHG or mixed UNHG, that the Yamnaya could not have spread all IE languages at all, since it is not the ancestor of most Europeans, this was done by the CWC, similar to the Yamnaya, probably due to common Sredni Stog-like ancestry, since they are the closest direct parents in the same territory, which already presented the bases of horse domestication and primitive funerary rites, that Bell Beaker came from Corded Ware, not Yamnaya, since the R1b of the Western Europeans comes from L51/M412 (R1b1a1a2a1), while the Yamnaya come from Z2103 (R1b1a1a2a2), both derived from L23 (R1b1a1a2a), and that the Yamnaya were replaced in the Steppe by the descendants of Corded Ware who returned there and from this arose the Proto-Indo-Aryans (Sintashta/Andronovo), which is why their language and religion is so close to the original PIE.
>>18543153Also, is this you, OP? I think X is watching me since everything I read on /his/ I later find posts there.https://x.com/i/status/2069161252530671755
Why did Yamnaya get mogged, raped and cucked by CWChads?
When does R1a enter the picture?Does it go back to something like Sredni Stog?
>>18543153>that the Yamnaya could not have spread all IE languages at all, since it is not the ancestor of most Europeans, this was done by the CWCThis is common knowledge. Only the most retarded /pol/-adjacent Aryanists LARP as Yamnaya.
>>18543153>that the Yamnaya could not have spread all IE languages at all, since it is not the ancestor of most Europeans, this was done by the CWCIsn't Greek, Armenian, Tocharian and Anatolia from Yamnaya THO?
>>18543168desu xitter is much better for actually discussing niche shit than 4chan, I follow him too
>>18543200Anatolian is not from Yamnaya.The other 3 are definitely related. Linguists have been arguing back and forth whether or not Graeco-Armenian is real. I think it's safe to say some form of Balkano-Armenian has to be true, but the surprising thing is that Tocharian must also be included in a even older parent subclade.
>>18543213What's the y-dna side of this connection, if any?is Greek R1b related to Armenian R1b? What about Afanasievo or modern Uyghur R1b lines(???)
>>18543200>Greek, ArmenianYes.>Tocharian and AnatoliaOnly Later. Original Tocharian comes from Afanasievo and Anatolian CLV.
>>18543265Why is Afanasievo shown to split from Yamnaya-CWC instead of Yamnaya, CWC and Afanesievo splitting at the same time? What's the rationale? Y-dna? Archeology?
This profile has a personal issue with Yamnaya, but allow me to correct them on copied and pasted nonsense. Yamnaya and corded ware are not "cousins," but represent the same population at different times or an evolution of the same culture. Considering the quality of the users here, it's not worth me going into too much detail on such a complex subject.The 2021 article by Papac et al., entitled "Dynamic changes in genomic and social structures in third millennium BCE central Europe," is one of the most important on this issue. The oldest R1b sample, PNL001, has a date of 2896 BC, which is 175 years older than the oldest R1a sample, PNL002, whose average age is 2721 BC. The second oldest R1b sample, OBR003, has an average date of 2893 BC and is 172 years older than the oldest R1a sample, PNL002 The first wave of dissemination of the Corded Ware Culture in Central Europe was from R1b, at least 3 to 5 generations earlier.Piotr Włodarczak presents the following chronology, at least for Corded Ware in southeastern PolandI – (ca. 3000-2900 BCE) Pre-Corded, related to the appearance of the oldest kurgan communities (horizon CWC-X);II – (ca. 2800-2600 BCE) associated with the oldest Corded Ware horizon (horizon CWC-A);III – (ca. 2600-2550 BCE) linked to the migration of Middle Dnieper groups and the appearance of features of Catacombnaya culture1/?
>>18543336>Yamnaya and corded ware are not "cousins," but represent the same population at different times or an evolution of the same culture.Isn't that what people mean by cousins though?
>>18543336R1b-L151 (including one R1b-U106) in the oldest known Corded Ware samples found to date in Papac et al., as well as some of the R1b-FT377377 type, from Katakombnaya-type graves in Lesser Poland (Małopolska), in southeastern Poland, seen in Linderholm et al. These oldest CW-type pottery samples from Papac et al., all of the R1b-L151 type, give us good reason to argue that Włodarczak Stage I, the CWC-X Horizon, may also have been dominated by haplogroup L151, since we observed that haplogroup R1b-L151 in Corded Ware preceded R1a-M417There are two CWC-X type sites not yet explored by geneticists located in Hubinek and Średnia, in Lesser Poland. These two sites are very close to the sites where Linderholm et al. collected their Stage III samples, which were R1b-L51, and which Włodarczak and Linderholm attribute to a second migratory wave from the steppe/forest-steppe, this time from the Middle Dnieper culture.the 2023 article by Ringbauer et al. btfo contains many simplifications>We find that the first individuals in Central and Northern Europe carrying high amounts of Steppe-ancestry, associated with the Corded Ware culture, share high rates of long IBD (12-25 cM) with Yamnaya herders of the Pontic-Caspian steppe, signaling a strong bottleneck and a recent biological connection on the order of only few hundred years,providing evidence that the Yamnaya themselves are a main source of Steppe ancestry in Corded Ware people.over two Horizon CWC-X sites in Hubinek and Średnia Wies, Lesser Poland>Probably,theBudzhak population migrated westwards to central Europe across Malopolskaand northern slopes of the Carpathians. The evidence of such connections could be found in the presence of Yamnaya graves in the central European area (Fig. 15), as well as in the similarity of individual shapes of pottery and ornamental motifs
>>18543354>providing evidence that the Yamnaya themselves are a main source of Steppe ancestry in Corded Ware people.The causality direction doesn't seem right to me, isn't it more correct to say that Yamnaya, Afanasievo and CWC all share the same ancestor population that lived around 3500 BCE somewhere around the Dniper-Don region?
>>185433543/3R1b-U106. The oldest, samples PNL001 and OBR003, originated during Horizon X of the Corded Ware Culture (approximately 3000-2900 BC) and were virtually autosomally identical to the Yamnaya, which was to be expected.Therefore, CWC-X was simply an extension of Yamnaya.There is no need for magical cousins. CWC-X dated to approximately 3000-2900 BC. After that comes Horizon CWC-A (2900-2700 BC) followed by Włodarczak Stage III, 2550-2400 BC, deriving from the Middle Dnieper culture. The only Corded Pottery samples we have that originated during the Horizon CWC-X period are PNL001 (R1b-U106), OBR003 (R1b-L151), and VLI076 (a woman, mtDNA N1a1a1a2). They are all in the Bohemia_CW_Early group and related to the CWC-X period, but their burials occurred during the Corded Ware A (CWC-A) Culture. The CWC-X period burials included ochre and were a kind of cross between the Yamnaya and early CW periods. Corded Ware was derived from Yamnaya.The Yamnaya migrated to southeastern Poland, mixing with the peoples of the Globular Amphora Culture along the way. In Lesser Poland (Małopolska), they formed the CWC-X Horizon, which represents the transition between the Yamnaya and the Corded Ware-A Culture proper. The main Y chromosome haplogroup of the males in this group was R1b-L151, belonging to several subclades, including U106 and P312.
>>18543181It enters later. We don't know where it's from. It only appears in it's current modern subclades after the major CWC migration. Meaning it can be both a native forager group picked up like the Steppe I2 clade for Sredny and Yamnaya from UNHG except this time from BHG. OR It's some deep R1a rare Steppe CLV line that randomly expanded
>>18543367>>18543351What you, as well as our friend in the related photo, are forgetting to mention is that the CWC-X culture was primarily composed of R1b-L151, and part of that haplogroup was R1b-P312, which formed an initial wave of the CWC culture that expanded westward, giving rise to the Bell Beaker culture. The oldest male specimens of the CWC culture that we have are all R1b-L151, including that specimen from U106.
>>18543374>>18543354>>18543336Something I forgot to mention is the results from the Gcope25 Bronze Age calculator, at least for the two oldest male samples from the Early Bronze Age of Bohemia, by Papac et al. PNL001 was R-U106 and OBR003 was R-L151. And see for yourself, this gives you an idea of how close the earliest Early Bronze Age men were to the Yamnaya. Not to mention that Yamnaya and Cordedware (CWC-A, at least) were separated by only generations based on IBD analyses, no more than 500 years. Almost no difference, actuallySo, when you repeat that the Yamnaya are useless or something like that, before you do that, remember that you are saying that the proto-CWC or the population/subgroup that formed the CWC were useless. I have some models on my PC about the 97.4% Yamnaya of PNL001 and the 93.4% Yamnaya of OBR003, both born during the Horizon X period of the CWC (3000-2900 BC). The parents of both men predated the Corded Ware Culture and were either Yamnaya or something indistinguishable from Yamnaya, but cannot be Srendy Stog, so your options are running out. The R1a argument doesn't hold up today.
To highlight how "irrelevant" and, as our friend in the related photo usually says, "overrated," the Yamnaya were compared to the CWC, did you know that the Yamnaya arrived in Central Asia before the CWC? As early as the third millennium BC. Based on archaeological evidence, a group of them infiltrated as far south as Tajikistan, and Afanasievo's presence and legacy in the IAMC is something that will continue to become more evident. Their presence in Zerevshan, especially in Zhukov, is very well documented. An article with samples should be ready by 2027.Kazakhstan Mereke MBA o2:I11736distance: 1.8887Russia_Afanasievo: 89Kazakhstan_Mereke_MBA: 11In addition to some settlements Poltavka settlements in Uzbekistan has been found, populations derived from CWC would have arrived in the interior of southern Central Asia only around 1600 BC.
>>18543431>>18543425Yamnaya created the Greeks and Cuckded ware created the Slavs. This tells us who is superior to whom.
I don't get it
>>18543091This guy makes cool maps, but he's an amateur when it comes to genetics. He thinks bell beakers are the Indo-European source for the Illyrians based on limited and scarce bell beaker material culture in the Balkans.
>>18543444Because this is inaccurate and the map's author is inserting their biases into this half-baked tree.
>>18543180Not happened
>>18543425>Not to mention that Yamnaya and Cordedware (CWC-A, at least) were separated by only generations based on IBD analyses, no more than 500 years. Almost no difference, actuallyagain, is that not what people mean by "cousins'?
>>18543460Fatyanovo derived groups replaced Srubnaya eventually
>>18543336>but represent the same population at different times or an evolution of the same cultureEvolution is literally genetic divergence, which is what cousin populations have in relation to a common ancestor. Cousin cultures don't cease to be related just because one diverged before the other, just as your cousin being older or younger than you doesn't stop him from being your relative. Modern archaeology only values the Yamnaya more than the Corded Ware because we know more about the Yamnaya than the Corded Ware and the Yamnaya actually lived in the Steppes, unlike CWC.
What was the first person with blue eyes?Was he/she part of one of these three?
>>18543892Villabruna man. No, he was WHG.
