The notion of hell is breaking my faith entirely. I cannot reconcile an omnibenevolent god with the doctrine of conscious eternal torment.All responses like "hell is locked from the inside" seem like cope to me.The Orthodox notion that hell is less a place and more a condition seems to solve it but I don't understand why that condition cant change after death, especially with our limited perception in life.
>>18543635The way I see it is that God is testing us. It will be the people of heaven’s task to liberate the people of hell. Only then do we get Satyug
>>18543635Bot post.
>>18543641I'm not familar with Satyug. I'm coming at this from a Lutheran perspective. >>18543642Unfortunately not.
My faith was already broken a while ago because of it. I searched long and hard for an answer but nothing resolved the issue. And it's quite a damning thing, more than most complaints with God. If Jesus forgave the people crucifying him as they were doing it, there's no reason he has to put you in hell forever. And the thing about how we "force him to do it" is like saying it's the fault of an abuse victim for not following all of the abusers rules.
>>18543635John 15:7, "If you abide in me and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." John 20:23, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."Maybe taking inspiring from verses like the above, the author of the apocryphal Apocalypse of Peter asserted that "And unto them, the godly, shall the almighty and immortal God grant another boon, when they shall ask it of him. He shall grant them to save men out of the fierce fire and the eternal gnashing of teeth: and this will he do, for he will gather them again out of the everlasting flame and remove them else whither, sending them for the sake of his people unto another life eternal and immortal, in the Elysian plain where are the long waves of the Acherusian lake exhaustless and deep bosomed;"But apparently, in at least one manuscript, someone wasn't happy with that, so they added, "Plainly false: for the fire will never cease to torment the damned. I indeed could pray that it might be so, who am branded with the deepest scars of transgressions which stand in need of utmost mercy. But let Origen be ashamed of his lying words, who saith that there is a term set to the torments."
>>18543635The Bible is the truth, that's why its important to get saved. It's impossible for the Bible the fulfill even 5% of it's fulfilled prophecies unless it's author knew the future. Whoever wrote that Book still had to know more than 500 details about what would take place anywhere from 100 to 3,000 years before it took place. https://truthischrist.com/seven/If Jesus Christ was speaking the truth every time He spoke about the "scriptures" or the words that He spoke, then it would mean that the One who made the galaxies and star clusters, the nebula and the solar system, the earth and everything on it (including man: Mark 13:19; Matt. 19:4) had placed within man's reach the WORDS He wanted "man" to hear and read (Acts 17:28, 31). It would mean that you and I could find out what was in the mind of God, the One who made the universe, and we could receive instructions from Him in human language ("words") that would tell us EVERYTHING that we really needed to know.Hell is real even if it doesn't make sense to us, also God is eternal and everywhere which means that even in those moments where a person is brutally torturing a child, God is even in that moment all the time, if hell isn't eternal then that means God is going to change His mind and that means God isn't going to let people be saved eternally either even though the Bible clearly says in Romans 8:38-39 that once you are in the love of God (in Christ Jesus) you won't be separated anymore from it. You can be in the body of Christ starting today if you accept what God wants for you, which is to be saved from Hell despite the fact that you have sinned against God.Rom. 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Confess The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in prayer, that you trust in Him, not your own works. He atoned for your sins on the cross.www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc
>>18543641It's a bad test though. If you choose something because you fear consequences, you're not choosing, you're acquiescing to a threat.
>>18543635It's almost impossible for you to be sent to hell. Even Hitler is not in hell. Instead 99% of Humanity will be in Purgatory. Some longer than others. And we will stay there, until we are ready for heaven.
There are three forms of baptism. Baptism by water to cleanse us externally. Baptism by the Holy Spirit which cleanses us internally. Both of these can be received whilst alive. If a person fails to receive baptism in life, then he is purified by receiving the baptism of hellfire.Butchering a quote by Origen, "The only thing that burns in hell is sin". Eternal Conscious Torment is true, but so is universal salvation. All shall be saved.(Eternity just means existing in a state of timelessness)
>>18543635This is called “concern trolling” if you’re wondering
Don’t worry, no one accidentally ends up in hell.
>>18543635God never claimed to be omnibenevolent. God is good with the good and with the evil he is evil. You dared rape and murder the innocent? Eternal hell with you. You dared to oppressed the poor and starve them to death? To hell with you.
>>18543644Just because Jesus said father forgive them, doesn't mean the father said, OK.
>>18543635Where do you get the doctrine of eternal torment ?Where do you get the idea that God is omnibenevolent ?If the answer is "The Bible" then you can't seperate it from God. you are simply denying what is plainly written, you don't get to insert a personality chip into God.If the Bible states God is both omnibenevolent and there is also eternal torment, then that's how it is.
>>18543813>If the Bible states God is both omnibenevolentWhere does it say he is?
Eternal paradise vs eternal hell entirely contingent on conversion is what pushed me to deconvert from my native religion, it's such an obviously transparent carrot-and-the-stick manipulation attempt totally unaligned with how a true absolute deity would behave.The other big thing was the revelation of this divine word upon which all depends being locked in a tiny region and moment in time. Why would a universal God reveal himself to one desert tribe and no one else? How is it fair that the fate of billions of people depends on whether they will be born into the right religion or a competing one? It's all bunk.If you want to stick with Christianity, your best bet is probably Christian Universalism. I grew up with fire and brimstone Calvinism so I didn't even hear about this perspective until long after I deconverted. Even with it Christianity still seems false to me, but it might be able to please others as a compromise. It's a hard route charting your own path to God, after all.
>>18543635There are many paths to god and not all of them will feel right to you. Time to find another?
>>18544317> Why would a universal God reveal himself to one desert tribe and no one else?Because God intended them to burn in Hell? Pretty straight forward.
>>18544346Incalculably based.
>>18543635I find it hard to see the Jewish religions as anything but a control mechanism, like priestly classes were in Mesopotamian history and such. Not to say that's a bad thing but I can't connect with it. The only thing I could somewhat understand is if the torture of hell provides a situation for the soul to realise some sort of 'truth' which the person failed to do in life. Like a crash course for those that failed to reach enlightenment. But then that still leaves the worldly preachings of >don't do X, do Z, or you'll burn forever and everI suppose it's a case of religion providing stability and cohesion for the masses through bullshitting and dogma, whilst allowing some "high-minded" people into the actual (what they see as) worthwhile spirituality part of it.
>>18543635Become a Mormon or a Jew. For Mormons, hell is largely temporary and you can change your condition after death. For Jews, hell is largely a place of temporary purification. Also, never use Hatsune Miku to discuss your weak faith again. Nobody has a stronger faith in God than Hatsune Miku.
>>18543635Oh, that's interesting. That was the final straw, eh?So are you saying you slept when they told you stories about the imaginary friend in the sky who demands baby foreskins?What about the talking snake?What about the jewish wizard who parted the Red Sea?What about the magic flying jew who came back from the dead 2000 years ago who's definitely going to come save you if you just trust the plan™ for 2 more millennia?The part where you lost faith is when you realized that sky daddy is a big fat meanie doo-doo head and now you're gonna cry>waaaaaaaah
>>18543635>why that condition cant change after deathIt can. That's why we pray for the dead. It's just that you can't change it for yourself, because you're dead, by definition not an agent anymore.
>>18545703A point worth discussing but the sub 80 IQ vocabulary completely sinks the post. What a shame.
>>18545725>waaaaah my imaginary friend is being mean to me>*sob sob*>I need to go lay down now because the period cramps are getting too intense
>>18545737QED. People don't hate your arguments, they hate you.
cont >>18545742I actually take that back, they don't hate you, just the way you talk. I shouldn't bee too harsh to Anons out of all people. I'm sorry
