I have not seen this discussed before. They would have looked strange. The first generation would have had immense hybrid vigour. The only downside being autoimmune disorders.The first born males although mostly infertile received human height with the robust skeletal frame and mass of a neanderthal and a bigger brain than both. Birthing was dangerous for a female human because of the elongated head and once born they developed so rapidly it would have been immediately apparent that this thing is different. There was no hiding getting cucked by a neanderthal the baby looked cooked. Their cognition is more speculative but they would have likely been pattern recognition machines, excellent visual processing and hand eye coordination, exceptional spatial intelligence and perception. They may have had reduced verbal capacity. Almost all the firstborn sons die out from infertility and human men continue to mix with the first born daughters but this further admixture would not have been as large as the original first born and hybrid vigour would have been lost.
>>18545462It kind of would look like me
>>18545468Post cranium
>>18545462>immense hybrid vigourRetard
>>18545473The heterosis lead to the first generation having longer limbs than both the parents. Something not seen in any other generation because of the genetic distance.
>>18545491And?
>>18545497Did you read the thread subject
>>18545500Do you know what hybrid vigour is
>>18545516Yes but clearly you think I am wrong so state your definition.
>>18545497Superior slenderman masterrace, obviously.
>>18545523And brains over 1900cc
>>18545462Why do you think the males would be infertile? As far as I know, we have the same number of chromosomes as them.As for how they would have looked, they would have just been more robust than homo sapiens but more gracile than neanderthals. Which is to say, the men would have been handsome to humans while the women would have been ugly. Neanderthals themselves would have likely seen the hybrids the way White people see Hapas, attractive women and ugly men. But then they died out so their preferences don't matter as much. Which is probably the actual reason there's no neanderthal mitochondrial DNA in modern humans. Human men didn't want to fuck the ogre daughters, but neanderthal men did. So those women had an incentive to go live among communities that would ultimately go extinct.Cognitively they'd probably just come across as somewhat autistic. Which, again, would work out better for the hybrid males than the hybrid females.
>>18545529The most superior brains in human history were significantly smaller than those of humanity's prehistoric ancestors.
>>18545532It is called Haldane's Rule it happens in all mammals.>>18545533I didn't say master race nor am suggesting it. You are arguing with yourself.
>>18545535Ok, retard. So what superior traits are these hybrids supposed to have? Name them.
>>18545532Your idea of the sociology is wrong because we have a genetic rule that says the males will be sterile. I can go deeper into the genetics if you as we have identified exactly why they were sterile too but everything you are saying is so speculative and not supported by anything. The positive sexual selection is a bizarre theory to construct on the spot.
>>18545538How can I name traits that have been unmapped?This is established it's very strange to see you so defensive. Hybrid vigour is well established in agricultural science I can link you published work that supports industry decisions on the breeding of agricultural science for the purpose of efficiency if you would like, but long story short, the greater the genetic difference the more dominant the effects. The simple example that everyone knows is the Liger, bigger than both a tiger and a lion because of heterosis. The same thing of course is in honey bees, having a three way genetic cross results in higher honey yields and stronger colonies.Your ignorance is not an argument. You are incredibly fucking stupid. Learn the very basics of biology.
>>18545544>How can I name traitsThen why are you mumbling about hybrid vigor?
>>18545547Because it's a rule. We know they got the absolute best of both genomes F1 because that is how it works. From there any interbreeding is at minimum 50% less thus the effects were immediately bred out.
>>18545535That's not what that rule says, and so it does not apply to all mammal crosses. That only applies if one sex is going to be sterile, which I don't see any reason to assume would be the case. Interbreeding sterility is usually a consequence of polyploidy from incompatible numbers of chomosomes.
>>18545551>Because it's a rule. We know they got the absolute best of both genomes F1 because that is how it worksThis level of delusion requires psychiatric intervention.
>>18545544>Hybrid vigour is well establishedSo is outbreeding depression. Hybrids are not automatically superior. In fact, they're usually less fit than either parent because they don't excel at either of the things their parents did. Which would probably be the case for homo sapiens neanderthal crosses. They would be neither as physically impressive as neanderthals nor as socially capable as homo sapiens. So they would be worse at both hunting styles.
>>18545555>"There is an approximately 5-fold reduction of Neandertal ancestry on chromosome X, which is known to harbor a disproportionate fraction of male hybrid sterility genes. These results suggest that part of the reduction in Neandertal ancestry near genes is due to Neandertal alleles that reduced fertility in males when moved to a modern human genetic background"https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12961>mutations in three genes on the Neanderthal Y chromosome KDM5D, USP9Y and TMSB4Y that produce histocompatibility (H-Y) antigens. When a H. sapiens female carries a male fetus bearing foreign H-Y antigens (as in Neanderthal-Y hybrid males), her immune system mounts a rejection responsehttps://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(16)30033-7>regions of the genome with the greatest depletion of both Neanderthal and Denisovan ancestry are specifically enriched for genes transcribed during meiosis where the cell division process produces spermhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28444387/>near-complete sterility between Neanderthal females and H. sapiens males, and very strong (though not total) reproductive barriers between Neanderthal males and H. sapiens females.https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1107450108Even the rare F1 that was fertile had the fetus rejected in human females.
>>18545564Outbreeding depression occurs in F2 retard.
>>18545562>Cranial size, mandible size, and limb length all exceed both parents in F1https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29477182/>Hybrid vigor, or heterosis, is the increase in stature, biomass, and fertility that characterizes the progeny of crosses between diverse parents such that the F1 is superior to the better of the two parentshttps://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0605627103Muh outbreeding depression occurs in F2>Outbreeding depression is thought to primarily result not from dominance, but rather from loss of favorable additive × additive epistases as co-selected, genomically compatible combinations of alleles are separated... Heterosis in the F2 is reduced by half compared to the panmictic-midparent heterosis in the F1.You reek of insecurity.
>>18545570This is even more dubious than the claim of sterility. There is no neanderthal mitochondrial DNA in modern humans. These immune incompatibilities would cause even daughters of this cross to be almost impossible, as one if your sources suggests. Which would mean the only viable crosses would carry neanderthal mitochondrial DNA. That's a substantially stronger sign than the scanty fragments of neanderthal DNA these assumptions of sterility are based on.>>18545573Nature doesn't give a fuck how many generations you've crossed. If your combination of traits is worse for survival, you produce fewer offspring. And most hybrids are less fit than their parents. Treating hybrid vigor as some kind of guaranteed rule is literal propaganda.
>>18545586And we know from lab testing they were advantageous. Your only argument here is to disregard established science. If you cannot root any of your argument in academia then fuck off.
>>18545590Lab testing of what? We're missing 80% of their genome and the last time someone met one was tens of thousands of years before the invention of the written word. We don't even know for sure how medieval battles were fought despite contemporary people writing manuals about it. But you think we can run tests determining hunter gatherer fitness using a few incomplete skeletons and fragments of DNA?
>>18545581>Cranial size, mandible size, and limb length all exceed both parents in F1You've already conceded none of these are necessarily superior traits.
>>18545469I have the perfect screenshot for you.I look like a human gorilla hybrid
>>18545462We were a single species, together with the Denisovans. Only people with a certain mtDNA mutation survived a bottleneck.
>>18545462>The first generation would have had immense hybrid vigour.No, they would have had crippling outbreeding depression. Race mixing is bad, very bad, the genetic distance is far too great and it causes severe negative consequences.
>>18545520It is when a severely inbred population returns to exogamy, there is no more hybrid vigour for human-neanderthals than there is for ligers
somebody said hybrids?
>>18545902Hybrid vigor or outbreeding depression, and why?
>>18545928imagine being called zonkey, definitely depression
>>18545902Interesting stuff. All of these are sterile arent they?
>>18545966nonot even all mules all sterile(males are but females are sometimes fertile and can crossbreed with parent population)hybrids are sometimes fertile, even if they are on lower rate(it usually get better) or one of the combination of parents or gender being infertile
>>18545462Literally me
>>18546646You are a zonkey
