Redpill me on the Vietnam war
First rule:Don't let the thots speak in public.
>>18546660The US does not weren't allowed to properly give out a death blow to the Vietcong because their most important military/political core after Hanoi, the Ho Chi Minh trail and their bases there inside the borders of Cambodia and Laos, supported by the Chinese and Soviets, could not be attacked directly/going all the way by US ground forces due to UN diplomatic constraints regarding to break the war neutrality of Cambodia/Laos and the escalation of the proxy war into a direct conflict with China and the USSR.VC set up a supply line in Cambodia and Laos along the Vietnam boarder, then heavily fortified it with Russian anti-aircraft tech. US couldn’t risk conduction of military operations in another country at the risk of starting WWIII. The VC and NVA were both proxy organizations funded by the Chinese and Soviets. So, this supply line, known as the Ho-Chi-Minh Trail, allowed the VC/NVA to move massive amounts of troops and supplies all throughout South Vietnam at a moments notice. And there wasn’t anything Americans could really do about it.Anyway, this meant that American troops would randomly find themselves in an outnumbered firefight on routine patrols. They would encounter traps set up on patrol routes that weren’t there hours before. Their standard issue rifles would constantly jam due to the weather/climate conditions. The VC and NVA they fought were relentless warriors. During firefights, NVA soldiers would routinely charge at machine gun nests in a single file line to draw away the suppressing fire.
>>18546710The US won the battle (defeating the Tet Offensive) but lost the war (Vietnamizationn) because refused to pursue NVA forces up the Ho Chi Minh trail into Cambodia, from where US forces knew the NVA to be massing men and supplies from before even the onset of official US military action. The US Government wanted to diplomatically preserve the illusion of Cambodian sovereignty, they would not unilaterally invade Cambodia and kill the literal millions of massing NVA and Viet Cong troops. The US tropes weren't allowed to pursue them in the Ho Chi Minh trail, or the owners taking receipt of the Chinese/Soviet equipment in the NVA in Cambodia/Laos in the border territory of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The closest Americans ever got were cross-border raids in Cambodia and some CIA hijinks in Laos from Vietnamese territory/border in Ho Chi Minh trail, not from within the very territory/inside border of Cambodia/Laos in Ho Chi Minh trail which was VC true trump card.Shaky, or no goals = failed campaign, guerilla war of attrition forever.
>>18546710>he VC and NVA were both proxy organizations funded by the Chinese and SovietsThis sounds like something written in 1966. Not at all true, they were very much Vietnamese nationalists who would take outside help where they could get it, but were not pawns of anyone.
>>18546736>they were very much Vietnamese nationalistsFirstly, you mistake Viet Cong with Viet Minh.Secondly, the South Vietnamese government Viet Cong was fighting against, was lead until 1963 by Ngo Dinh Diem, who was a nationalist, vehemently anti-French and anti-colonial (He was very poorly regarded in the US for persecuting/killing Catholic priests). But again, you mistake Viet Cong with Viet Min.Thirdly, Viet Minh was at the start and ostensibly not-communist, while being in fact directly controlled by communists, who begun to purge non-communists even before their victory against the French and put higher gear right after 1954. Viet Cong from the very start was communist and directly subservient to Hanoi, China and USSR. Of course on the propaganda from it was anti-colonial/indigenous and national, but it was all smoke and mirrors, typical for communist propaganda always trying to twist everything around.Fourthly, whatever Ho Chi Minh claimed and his western admirers clapped to, he was a communist at least since 1919, when he helped to set up French Communist Party, and then he went to USSR and for the next twenty years was an active Comintern emissary in Asia, before even returning to his home country on Moscov order. TL;DR You are most likely American, most likely caviar-left, and completely ignorant on the subject apart from repeating some common truths about Vietnam dispelled by historians more than twenty years ago.
>>18546720>>18546710third Indochina war was crazy
>>18546736Hanoi were close Soviet allies but of course never liked China or trusted them.
>>18546660It was a battle between a small imperialist power and a large imperialist power.North Vietnam had no rightful claim to South Vietnam, which overwhelmingly consisted of other ethnic groups (Montagnard, Cham, Khmer Krom, etc.)North Vietnamese (Kinh) just wanted to reconquer and recolonize land they had conquered and colonized prior to being conquered and colonized themselves by the French.The U.S. failing to capitalize on this point to sow division in the 'anti-imperialist' Kinh was one of the reasons we lost the war.Another significant reason the war was lost was the "body count"; any dead gook could be counted as VC, and units were rewarded with R&R for high kill counts, while units that didn't meet the "kill quota" were punished with more field time. This did everything to encourage American soldiers to just merk civilians and count them as VC.A song written by disgruntled veterans, "Napalm Sticks to Kids," has a line referencing this.>Oxcars rollin' down the road>Peasants with a heavy load>They're all V.C. when the bombs explodehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9eybY9qFfYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly-GDa9W1d4
>>18546842>The U.S. failing to capitalize on this point to sow division in the 'anti-imperialist' Kinh was one of the reasons we lost the war.I don't understand Americans. Why didn't you think twice before invading the nation that had repelled the peak Mongols three times in a row? And even more importantly: why didn't anyone in the LBJ cabinet realise that the Vietnamese hated the Chinese 80 billion times more than they hated white people?
>>18546856The State Department really really did not understand anything about the world outside North America and Europe beyond what they read in NatGeo, and even then they probably just read it for the pictures of topless native girls. All the way to the 70s they were confused by the Iranian revolution as they could only think in binary terms of if the Shah was ever overthrown it would be by Soviet-backed communists.
>>18546842>North Vietnam had no rightful claim to South Vietnam, which overwhelmingly consisted of other ethnic groups (Montagnard, Cham, Khmer Krom, etc.)>French colonial categoryIt their homeland, retards
>>18546856>Why didn't you think twice before invading the nation that had repelled the peak Mongols three times in a row?Arrogance. We wanted a foothold in southeast Asia and thought we'd lick the gooks easy.My idea of winning would have been to offer the North Vietnamese the ethnic Kinh territory of South Vietnam on condition they stop supporting the Khmer Rogue. We'd lose the ports but could resupply through Cambodia. Make a pro-U.S. rump state with a name unrelated to Vietnam to distinguish it. Hold the Cambodian ethnic majority parts of South Vietnam as a prize for the anti-communist Cambodians for when they defeat the Khmer Rogue.If the Kinh get uppity and try to land grab again, bomb the shit out of them. This time it'd work because instead of gaining resolve to liberate their fellow Kinh in the south, they'd be split on whether conquering and subjugating some Montagnards and Khmer was worth all the bombing or not.You'd have to do it after Tet, too; the American public would view it as a defeat so long as they believed there was a chance of winning militarily.>>18546864No.
>>18546885Yes.
>>18546898Look at the map, Nguyen.You are to Montagnard and Khmer what white Americans are to Native Americans. You're an imperialist dog who conquers indigenous peoples.
>>18546906>MontagnardChristcuck larping>KhmerStill ass hurt lol
>>18546906Map is Vietnam. South just make up fanfic.
>>18546921>>18546927So this outline in red? That entire area; not your language, not your people, not your land.You're an imperialist.Are you Kinh? Or are you Mon-Khmer/Malayo-Polynesian?
We won and left then the South Viets lost their country very quickly because they are losers.
>>18546929>>18546885You are melty wumao
>>18546943'Anti-imperialist' imperialist crashing out lolNo more arguments, only cope
We lost and left then the South Viets lost their country very quickly because we are losers
>>18546945>seetheVietnam did nothing wrong, retards
>>18546950They conquered and colonized indigenous people.You have no argument to the contrary; you're only crashing out and coping about it. If anything you're going out of your way to prove me right.
>>18546952I am right. You seethe and coping right now lol
>>18546802afterwards they become hostile and China lose 20k dudes in three weeks invading Vietnam
>So this outline in red? That entire area; not your language, not your people, not your land. You're an imperialist. Are you Kinh? Or are you Mon-Khmer/Malayo-Polynesian?>They conquered and colonized indigenous people. You have no argument to the contrary; you're only crashing out and coping about it. If anything you're going out of your way to prove me right.
>>18546958If you were right you'd have an argument lol>>18546961Also not an argument. Also proving my point. Cope harder, Nguyen.
>>18546959also that is a false claim. the PLA lost about 1,500 men and inflicted upwards of 30,000 casualties while punishing Hanoi for their aggressive acts of militarism in SE Asia.
>>18546963>Cope harderOk Chungoid
>>18546965Fuck off, Xiang.
>>18546977>Still no argumentYou've done wonders in proving my point.
>>18546668>WOMAN held no responsibility
>>18546981You're proving nothing that Vietnam won.Also free tibet and eastern turks
>>18546985I never said Vietnam didn't win; I said they're imperialists. I agree; free Tibet, free Xinjiang, and free Inner Mongolia as well. Also free Montagnard, free Khmer Krom, free Champa. Free all oppressed indigenous people, whether they're colonized by Han or Kinh. Down with imperialism in all forms.
>also that is a false claim. the PLA lost about 1,500 men and inflicted upwards of 30,000 casualties while punishing Hanoi for their aggressive acts of militarism in SE Asi-ACK!!
>>18546660it was a proxy war against china. And it was used by communists in America to sow the seeds of "all American actions are imperialism!" Despite the horrors of communism, they're just a bunch of farmers trying to live in paradise, but evil imperal capitalists keep screwing that up.Vietnam was a propaganda war with a physical body count.Vietnam was insignificant in terms of losing a land conflict.the real fallout was that the hippy communists took over academia and media, and we're only just now starting to fight back.
>>18546856>had repelled the peak Mongols three times in a row?Dubious sources only collaborate this
for yucks, John McCain's memoirs where he talks about trying to explain Christianity to his captors in Vietnam
>>18547012>the real fallout was that the hippy communists took over academia and media, and we're only just now starting to fight backwell good luck with that. The academia is another useful idiot for the oligarchs. While the republicans use the hillbillies and the cubans to satisfy their imperialistic ambitions, the democracts use university students and the blacks to satisfy their own imperialistic ambitions
>>18546660>Soviet Union: Keen to expend their influence into the Pacific>America: Keen to stop the Soviet Union from doing so (and to send large numbers of predominantly poor young men to die for economic reasons)>South Vietnam: Really keen to not be ruled by commies>France: Just glad that it's not their problem any more.>Charlie: IS IN THE FUCKING TREES!!!!!!Can you be a little more specific OP? It's kind of a big topic.
>>18547042>wwaaaah imperialism!!!cry about it, thirdie.
>>18546720The idea that the Vietcong was defeated after Tet is a myth. They remained a substantial fighting force in the immediate aftermath of the offensive.
>>18548055They were defeated, very brutally. They just weren't completely destroyed. But they never fully recovered either.
It's over, Chudda won.
It was good at improving the bottom line of defense contractors that Lady Bird Johnson had stocks in.
