Anyone on /his/ from Spain? In school in America we never learned about Franco despite spending hours on WW2 and other dictators.What do current Spaniards think of Franco? Especially younger citizens who never lived under his regime? Anyone have any insight on this?
Was Spain the reason why Germany lost WWII?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeathttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fortitude
>>18546811Broadly negative. There is debate over who was worse in the CW, and “this wouldn’t have happened under Franco” is a big boomer name, but no one really wants to rehabilitate Franco (Unlike Salazar in Portugal).Thing is, Franco backstabbed many of his allies, like Carlists and the original Falange, so a lot of people on the far right also don't like him. Then his die-hard supporters got themselves in prison trying to overthrow the new state after Franco's death and no longer had any influence.
>>18546979*big boomer meme
>>18546811Franco is widely considered a disgrace, with three exceptions:>1. Your family was rewarded by his regime (e.g. banksters, construction tycoons)>2. You are under 15 years old, you're an edgelord and praising Nazis is for boomers, so Franco is the next best thing >3. You are Chinese immigrant Chen Xiangwei aka "The Fascist Chinaman" and you want to be on TVFranco nostalgics are a sad bunch. The worst part are their arguments, usually something like "back then we could smoke in the bar", "back then we didn't have corruption" (lel), or "hey at least we're not Bulgaria / Romania / Albania". I could make better arguments *for* the Franco regime than the average facha.
>>18546979Interesting. I just started reading El Generaliśimo: A Biography of Francisco Franco and so far the themes to his success include remaining neutral during ww2 and his "economic miracle".
>>18547011>and his "economic miracle"Does the book explain the Stabilization Plan of 1959, when actual experts took over economic planning? Because if your country only starts leaving misery behind once you stop working, that's not a flex, is it?
>>18547011yeah, that's the big secret behind nationalistic government: don't involve yourself in wars. Franco in Spain and Peron in Argentina survived the purges of nationalistic movements around the world because they didn't gave the Western Powers a Casus Belli to overthrown them. Altought, unlike Franco, Peron (or better yet, his political movement) barely survived him in its original form
>ITT the one asshurt republican commie who’s ancestors got kicked out of Spain and now lives in Mexico City
>>18547011>remaining neutral during ww2KEK Franco wanted for Hitler to give him back the spanish empire after bombing his own country to oblivion in exchange of his help, and Hitler told him to fuck off. That's how Spain remained neutral.>>18547022You know, say whatever you want about him, but Franco at least had the small glimpse of humility in his soul that allowed him to see that neither him or any of his generals, who could only think about shooting people, knew shit about economics, and gave the matter to people who actually knew. The only thing good he ever did, and it happens that sole thing makes him a better leader than any spanish leader in recent history
>>18547088>in exchange of his helpfor* his help
>>18546811Unfortunately he still has plenty of sympathizers, Franco's influence still looms heavy in Spanish politics to the point that there's a term for it: Sociological Francoism.>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_FrancoismIt's a big reason why ETA and Herri Batasuna are seen so negatively by Spaniards today.>>18547011>>18547022>>18547088The "economic miracle" under Franco happened despite his politics, not because of them. Pic related.
>>18547127>It's a big reason why ETA and Herri Batasuna are seen so negatively by Spaniards today.They killed both basque and non basque civilians who suffered Franco's autism as much as them. If they only killed cops and soldiers it would have been another thing, but they didn't, so the dislike is well earned
>>18546811Spaniards are self destructive far left pussies today so I'd imagine they don't view him very fondly
>>18547127>It's a big reason why ETA and Herri Batasuna are seen so negatively by Spaniards today.Post-1975 ETA was an inept rabble of idiots whose idea of an armed struggle was to blow up random cars and kidnap random civilians. They gave up because they had no money, no recruits and no support among the Basque population. They were clowns compared to real terrorist organisations like the Tamil Tigers, Shining Path, Hizbullah or MeK. You can't hate ETA enough, be it because of the damage they did, be it for their incompetence as a wannabe revolutionary group.
>>18547209That's the same tactics of the IRA who are the most famous and liked terrorist group ever
>>18547022>Because if your country only starts leaving misery behind once you stop working, that's not a flex, is it?Why can't commies ever learn this simple trick? It's hard to call him a bad leader when he at least knew how to delegate things in areas he clearly he knew wasn't his area of expertise. Pinochet did the same exact thing and it worked wonders in Chile. I guess the takeaway here is that leftists are even worse than fascists since they're too egotistical to let anyone else advise them on economic matters.
>>18547228Because leaving economics to a bunch of idiots that studied under a Jew in Chicago went so well, right?Kek
>>18547213They did have gunfights with the army and the police. That's beyond your average ETA mutant's dreams
>>18547228>Pinochet did the same exact thing and it worked wonders in Chile.I guess 40% poverty rate and 35% lower salaries is technically a wonderhttps://newrepublic.com/article/116799/egypt-does-not-need-pinochet
>>18547209In other words, ETA wasn't ruled by a bunch of retards controlled by masonic glowies trying to push a strategy of tension
>>185468111/4 miss him, 1/4 hate him, 1/2 will miss or hate him depending of whatever is currently happening
>>18547262>the new republic
>>18547050Nah Spain is a genuinely pozzed country nowadays, it's not surprising at all. They would unironically prefer being conquered by browns than speak positively about Franco.
>>18547709I love how these leftie homos immediately out themselves by citing literal commieslop tabloids
How did spain end up so globohomo'd like ireland, sweden and canada?
>>18548036He created the Spanish tourism industry
>>18546811You cannot openly talk about Franco in Spain. Now the country is in the hands of foreigners.Nevertheless, humble people remind him as their ally, whereas wealthier ones as someone that didn’t make them so rich.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i6q13IV9oUSwamps* = dams>>18546917No. Admiral Carrero Blanco warned Franco about a British attack on the Canary Islands (such as on Cuba in 1898). Unless that could be prevented, Spain should not enter the war.Canaris, pro-Spanish, coordinated everything from Berlín. Franco demanded useless Oran, whereas Petain followed requesting the integrity of the French colonnial Empire, leading to a deadlock Hitler couldn’t break. All three saved most Southwestern Europe from the ravages of war, plus Paris and Rome.
>>18547127>It's a big reason why ETA and Herri Batasuna are seen so negatively by Spaniards today.Otegi is 1:15 AM in Spain, go to bed now.
>>18548130>Muh dams memesAll planned to build by the republic. You think the braindead-obsessed-with-killing-civilians-who-didn't-go-to-the-local-parish- each-sunday military came out with that?Its also funny how the spanish left is so hellbound in destroying francoist dams when it was the republic, a period they worship, that essentially made them>Nevertheless, humble people remind him as their allyHumble people starved under his regime until the late 60s, few years prior his death>whereas wealthier ones as someone that didn’t make them so rich.He gave them back the privileges that the republic tried to take away, and he also made sure to bomb half the country away for his buddies at construction businesses to make good money, and to force city folk to go back to their rural shitholes and be slaves to the local latifundist again. To imply that he wasn't a friend of the rich makes you a liar>All three saved most Southwestern Europe from the ravages of war, plus Paris and Rome.Canaris couldn't know Hitler's expansionist ideas because Hitler didn't want that, he was a spy going against him so he obviously made a lie to deter Franco. In spite of that, Franco and his buddies really wanted to go to war, to the point Franco sent cards expressing his will to help Adolf, something the german didn't take seriously not then, not after. Franco even sent a small regiment to Russia despite Hitler wanting nothing to do with Spain. Every historian that isn't Ramon Serrano knows thatKill yourself, apologist
>>18547127The ETA is disliked for being a bunch of explosive terrorists setting off bombs around the country, it's not fucking rocket science as to why the public didn't like them
>>1854721390% of pro-IRA sympathy is just hatred for the British as opposed to some genuine Hibernophilia. The Brits have successfully pissed off literally everyone from China to Spain in the last 200 years so obviously they lose the PR war against the anti-British IRA
>>18548036Because despite what the "trad Cath" nerds think, having an oppressive state apparatus try to shove religion down your throat only makes people resent it and explode with a negative backlash. That's why chilled out mellow countries like Denmark and Finland actually still have official state churches while all the hardcore clerical dictatorships often result in their religions dying out in spectacular fashion as soon as the lid on the pressure cooker is off. Ireland was never a dictatorship, but the overbearing presence of Catholicism there is also now leading to a major secular whiplash and religion is dying fast. As for topics like race, racism, etc... Spain can't really afford to play along with the whole "EVROPA FOR WHITE ARYANS ONLY" meme when every racist outside of Spain constantly memes about them being Moorish Arab rapebabies + Spanish cultural soft power continuing to thrive is dependent on their mixed race Latin American offspring now
>>18548130>this blatantly American made memeInfrastructure in modern Spain is definitely not a weakness lmao, it literally has the best and fastest bullet train network in Europe
>>18547262>Stephen Glass' magazine
>>18549352>having an oppressive state apparatus try to shove religion down your throat only makes people resent it and explode with a negative backlash.There was no backlash, except for the one artificially manufactured after Franco's death. The traitors simply followed orders dictated from abroad.>As for topics like race, racism, etc... Spain can't really afford to play along with the whole "EVROPA FOR WHITE ARYANS ONLY" meme when every racist outside of Spain constantly memes about them being Moorish Arab rapebabies.It’s obvious you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. That’s just a fantasy held by butt-hurt panchos, chicanos, and amerimutts. If you lived in Europe, you’d know that’s utter bullshit—and that the Spanish far right (both the visible and the invisible kind) maintains operational ties and links with its counterparts across the rest of Europe (as has always been).
>>18549352>Spanish cultural soft power continuing to thrive is dependent on their mixed race Latin American offspring now
>>18546811For all the talk about being based and trad he allowed evil rock 'n roll bands like Los Brincos and Los Bravos to form, record and release their music so I don't what the average tradcuck sees in him.
Reminder Tolkien and Dali were passionate supporters of Franco
>>18546811Zoomers are starting to like him
>>18547213The Troubles era IRA gets a ton of goodwill because a good majority of their targets (though by no means all, lets not whitewash them) were Military/Police/Militia, while their Loyalist/BSF opponents almost exclusively attacked random civilians. That did a hell of a lot to push the narrative of "Brave freedom fighters resisting brutal oppressors" in the public consciousness.
>>18549406>It’s obvious you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. That’s just a fantasy held by butt-hurt panchos, chicanos, and amerimuttsyeah okay, wog. Now go back to hanging out with the Arabs and Turks and acting like you lot do t. Australia
>>18549255> small regiment40,000 strong infantry division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_DivisionNo Commies with Franco, glorious days
>>18549353
>>18549553So was Fidel fucking Castro lol.How do lefties explain that one.
>>18550064>Support North Vietnam's right of unity with the South Franco was gigabased
>>18546811He is goated leader.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvR1RMvS_OQ
>>18549593No, it's mostly just anti-bong seething. >I saw some squaddies enjoying a pint in that pub so we better blow it up
>>18549812>45000*Small numbers for the period>No Commies with Franco, glorious daysFascists and commies are two sides of the same coin
>>18548036The right lost the last election before the civil war really badly. They didn't want Franco. Why wouldn't they zag as soon as the boot eases up a little. Its not like they went back to high levels of support for overthrowing capitalism. We're talking a very slight ricochet into barely socdem-ish neoliberalism
>>18550249You can look at the stats man. The numbers don't lie. Most people generally consider it "acceptable" to attack soldiers when fighting against an occupation, and likewise get upset when "civilians" are harmed.
>>18546811They don't think about him at all, which is worse than loving or even hating him.
>>18550534>The right lost the last election before the civil war really badly.Bullshit.https://www.elmundo.es/cronica/2017/03/12/58c3b8bb46163f9f338b457d.html
>>18551132
>>18550096Franco was really critical of the U.S. war in Vietnam yeah. I think there's a current running through some real right-wing conservative Catholics who really don't like communism but they understand somewhere deep down that its appeal comes from real grievances and also probably some kind of spiritual longing.
>>18551142Maybe he hasn't forget 1898 war and oversaw the pig bay invasion.
>>18551132Are you just spanish, right wing and mad cause like every book says that not only did the left win, there actually was election interference and subversion but it was overwhelmingly, by far on the right's side. If the results weren't accurate they were innacurate in that the right would have lost worse.
>>18551227>every book says that not only did the left win, there actually was election interference and subversion but it was overwhelmingly, by far on the right's side. If the results weren't accurate they were innacurate in that the right would have lost worse."After examining all the official records, the results of the February 16, 1936 elections—which went down in history as the Popular Front's great victory—not only confirm that the Right actually won by a margin of 700,000 votes across Spain, but also shed light on the most scandalous instances of fraud."No one has been able to refute this study. There is absolute silence. It is treated as if it did not exist, simply because it dismantles the kindergarten-level myth that has been peddled to a dumbed-down mass audience ever since Spain dropped its trousers fifty years ago.
>>18551519You are admitting that the overwhelming historical and scholarly consensus is the opposite of what you're saying, you just think its wrong because you have a book that emphatically agrees with you. Nobody who doesn't happen to have read that same exact book can really engage with you on this, its far from impossible for the consensus on something to be wrong, but when I pick up a random book on the civil war they do invariably report the opposite in no uncertain terms. And stepping beyond that, the Nationalists got most of the military and most of the trained officers. For the Republic to have put up as much fight as it did also suggests a lot of support. Furthermore, with how bad the right wing government from 1932-34 was in Spain, it would truly be surprising if the right weren't at least as unpopular as the election results suggest. The only reason the right won in 1932 was because the "left" divided while the right united, getting huge numbers of seats from comparatively small numbers of votes due to particular technical mechanics of the electoral system.
>>18551619Quite the opposite. Since its publication, the academic community and the historical consensus acknowledge that the work of Álvarez Tardío and Villa García is based on official, public, and verifiable documentation—held primarily in the Congress of Deputies Archive. It is an exhaustive study, grounded in official records and historical archives, demonstrating that the Popular Front did not secure an absolute majority through a clean electoral process, but rather through fraudulent manipulation. The most zealous leftist historians are unable to refute this; they simply fabricate a narrative claiming the Right cheated as well—yet they offer not a shred of evidence, let alone the exhaustive documentation provided by Tardío and Villa García.
>>18546811>In school in America we never learned about Franco despite spending hours on WW2 and other dictators.Why the fuck would you ever expect to learn about modern Spain? They were and are irrelevant to world history. The only two events of note in recent memory were when we took the Philippines and Cuba from them, and when they let the Germans and the Soviets kill each other in their backyard.Here's a glimpse into the political situation of the First Spanish Republic in 1873:>The situation reached such levels of surrealism that, while presiding over a Cabinet session, Estanislao Figueras yelled: "Gentlemen, I can't stand this any more. I am going to be frank with you: I am up to my bollocks of all of us!" So fed up that on 10 June he left his resignation letter in his office, went for a walk through the Parque del Buen Retiro and, without telling anyone, boarded the first train departing from the Atocha Station. He would only step down upon arriving in Paris.
>>18546994You can still smoke in bars anyways. In Mallorca they didn't seem to mind.
>>18548130>my politics views come from memes made by 17 year old americans
Im not a Spaniard but Im a tradcath from Slovenia and Franco was unironically one of the best statesmen ever.
>>18546994Most of those fachas are just the average boomer type that just has nostalgia for when they were young, and his biggest daily struggle is getting fined for driving junk, and believes the alarm companies sponsored okupas fearmongering
>>18549815It's crazy how almost every single society started to become worse during the 70's. The end of the bretton woods system, the oil shocks and the eventual market deregulation really crashed western society with no survivors
>>18552129>average boomer type that just has nostalgia for when they were youngTrue, and unfortunately they exist in every society. For example, boomers voted for Ferdinand Marcos' son in the Philippines and for Fujimori's daughter in Peru.
>>18553818Fujimori won because the USAID money dried up :) The regime in Cuba is next on the chopping block
>>18553865Keep dreaming gringo.It's a testament to how good of an economic system Communism is that Cuba has stood firm despite being under an embargo for decades.Can you imagine a crapitalist dystopia like the UK being placed under the same sanctions? It would descend into anarchy in less than a week.
>>18547011>economic miracle >being an American puppet state in exchange for money Pornstars and whores also have economic miracles
>>18549553And that's why they were based
