what or who of modernity (for the sake of this thread. we will define modernity as from the 17-18th century to the present) will be remembered in a thousand or so years? will future historians know more about modernity 1000 years from now than we know about 1000 years ago today?what events will remain permanently etched into our historical record? what might be lost?I've been thinking about this stuff a lot recently.
Atheism will be a minor footnote unknown to everyone except expert historians
>>18549068okay, why do you suppose this?I don't see why atheism would become completely unknown. since it's simply the lack of belief in any gods.
Mass indoctrination of whole generations through mandatory schooling will be recognized as more evil than everything assyrians or other examples of of cruel, evil empires of the past could ever come up with. This reckoing is already beginning as we speak: the narrative of progressivism falls apart people wise up to not allow themselves to be drafted for the sake of nation-state bullshit and the demographic crisis deepens as the last generations to go through mass schooling try to get one last degree in their 40s before their first kid. The current brainwashed society is going away through either revolution or falling off the demographics cliff.
>>18549060I mean. That relies entirely on one's pre-suppositions about the future. In my case I present two scenarios.1: Digital Industrialized society stagnates and eventually becomes unable to sustain itself (demography, resource depletion, climate change, natural disasters), producing a collapse in population and radical de-complexification of human societies world-wide. The internet shuts down, global trade stops, production chains break down, and human life is forced to reconfigure itself, although I don't know how it would be.In this scenario loss of knowledge will be great, but I don't think the truly important things would be in any danger of dissappearing (in global sense). All the important discoverers and their discoveries will more or less remain in memory. In terms of practical inventions: The internal combustion engine, the percussion cap fire-arm, electricity, and penicilin penicilin aren't going away, that's for sure. And we certainly aren't going to forget about plastic any time soon. I don't think the world we live in could ever 'come back' if it were disrupted, but it is certainly robust enough to leave much more behind than the urban societies in the previous 'malthusian trap' configuration. But insofar as history, the arts, philosophy, I think a lot of it will be lost, even if not necessarily the classics.Event wise people will still probably remember WW2, several wars of independence, civil wars.2: Modern civilization reaches escape velocity, whether through AGI, transhumanism, space, whatever. In this case I think the majority of modern work will become preserved and archived. In this case the most commonly remembered achievements may very well be scientific ones relating physics or computation.Making Socio-Cultural predictions like >>18549068 is in both cases futile, as historically the state of the world changed dramatically from 20 AD, to 1020, to 2020 in ways that couldn't have been imagined at the starting point.
>>18549125Trvke.
>implying the browns of the future will keep track of history, anthropology, theology, philosophy or even religion
>>18549132this is a good post, thank you.who do you think will most likely be remembered the way we today remember figures like Julius Caesar or William The Conqueror, Cleopatra, King Tut, Genghis Khan, Socrates, Confucius, Charlemagne, etc, etc?i think Hitler's an obvious shoe in.Washington maybe, i guess that kind of depends on whether or not America or a successor state is still a major power.Truman i think will be remembered for being the first president to drop nuclear bombs.perhaps certain other military figures from World War 2 like MacArthur. I think they're notable enough to be remembered.I'm not so sure we're going to really remember guys like, say Bill Gates or whatever. or at least not as much as other technological figures like Sam Morse or Alexander Graham Bell. Napoleon, Bismarck, nuclear scientists like Oppenheimer probably.Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. or at least just Armstrong.on the cultural side of things I think it is at least plausible that incredibly major 20th century musicians. (i'm thinking like, Elvis, The Beatles, Michael Jackson, possibly The Beach Boys.) will still be performed centuries from now or at least known of. there's tons of recordings of these people, references in other works. cultural detritus. etc. even in a worst case scenario i would be surprised if all mentions of these absolute giant performers were erased from history.I can see Beatles songs being performed centuries in the future much the way we perform Mozart and Bach today.
>>18549168I'm not exactly a historian, of course. so take all of this with a grain of salt. it's just speculationMao Zedong will almost certainly be remembered for centuries to come.Joseph Stalin as well.Walt Disney has a pretty good chance of surviving just due to the sheer amount of shit that has his name on it, Henry Ford too i assume would plausibly be remembered.I think the presidents on Mount Rushmore have a good chance of being remembered for a thousand years. even if just because of people wondering 'who the fuck were these guys?' and rediscovering the history of them and/or keeping it fresh in the imagination of the common man.not a real person. but I think at least the idea of Superman as a sort of mythic figure or archetype will survive, much like Robin Hood or King Arthur. given that he taps into a lot of universal human ideals and wants, his symbolism is easy to memorize. he's already deeply embedded into our culture. even if all or many of his individual stories crumble into nonexistence. if there's any fictional character from the 20th century that has the longevity to be remembered for a thousand years, it's probably him. I think. even some fuckin African kid living in the slums of Ghana can tell you who Superman is and recognize that symbol.>>18549166why are you so dour?
>>18549193also not really a person. or even a character. but a fictional archetype.I think the idea of the 'cowboy' will live on even if we forget individual outlaws like Billy The Kid or Jesse James.
>>18549166Obsessed
>>18549168Hitler guaranteed, certainly. Mao and Stalin too. The first Guy's other picks are also good.U.S presidents wise I think the very famous ones will endure. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, possibly one or both of the Roosevelts. I don't think any president after the 50s before 2000 (25 year rule) will be very celebrated.Generally though, any personality commonly considered to be a 'national father' will endure as long as that nation does in a recognizeable form. Beyond politics I think Dostoyevsky is a likely candidate for a long literary legacy. Along with many Sci-Fi Authors. In painting Van Gogh is certain to endure.
>>18549060There is a valid consideration.As most of our current documents are in digital form, it is possible that they will no longer be readable in the future. There are two reasons for this: first, standards such as .pdf or .txt change over time, and some old files cannot be read currently. Second, and more importantly, digital storage errors themselves occur over time.>>18549068Given current statistics concerning birth rates, the prevalence of anti-natalistic views in left-leaning and atheist communities, and the fact that religious groups have exhibited a strong affiliation with actual reproduction, it could be possible.It may be that, in the long run, most of humanity will trace their lineage back to religious families, while atheists will more frequently die childless. I want to remember that history does not care about your reasoning, nor necessarily about the truth in the sense of mirroring reality. History cares about what is effective in influencing the future.Recreate with a lot of offspring is, writing stuff people read 100 years in the future is, making a carriere in some compley may bot.>>18549075Because religious groups like Mormonism, Amish, etc., have higher birth rates per capita.
>>18549060Philosophically, if we restrain ourselves to "modern" philosophers I'd wager on >marx for historical reasons and for initiating a materialist interpretation of society>popper for introducing the modern scientific technique>any neolib/libertarian philosopher (rand, nozick, mises, hayek etc) to explain why the world ran/runs on markets with private property >maybe one existentialist might be remembered. If so, Heidegger would come to mind. >whichever philosopher was right when it comes to consciousness>whichever school of meta-ethics was right when it comes to moralityWe live in an interesting time because, objectively speaking, there isn't much left to reflect upon. Odds are, if you've managed to develop a coherent string of reflection that could be considered a "philosophy", someone else has probably had this exact same thought pattern. The only philosophical inquiries that are really left standing due to a lack of proper methodology are meta-ethics and philosophy of mind. Both, however, are very probably going to be seen unveiled through modern neuroscience.>what events will remain permanently etched into our historical record? I think that historians in the future are going to see the USSR and soviet-satellites as a truly civilizational adversary to the US. Just as we remember Cartagena and Sparta for the opposition to whichever dominant power existed in their time, I wouldn't be surprised if the soviet union is seen as more or less the same due to its rivalry.
>>18550067>Because religious groups like Mormonism, Amish, etc., have higher birth rates per capita.So? Religion isn't genetic
>>18549166>>implying the browns of the future will keep track of history, anthropology, theology, philosophy or even religionThose things don't magically cease to exist when Whites aren't around
actual modernity was about state centralization and the nationalist project originally, of ever more efficient and powerful state executives who used institutions like education and media, economic conglomerates etc to create powerful standing armies. Nazi Germany ironically probably was the highest point of that kind of modernity in Europe prior to it's failure.Nu modernity is about... giving everyon in society more rights, then giving minorities more rights than others, then swamping the population with unassimilable foreigners, then creating police states to repress the population. No, that doesn't sound much like anything modern. That sounds like the dominate era of rome. >>18549132we will not have population collapse in the classical form with existing technologies. Western society has simply lost the intrinsic ability to innovate much due to steady dysgenics and enshittification. We are probably going to coast and coast in this new dark age of stupidity and left wing ignorance for a very long time until society declines enough on social metrics to warrant radical regime change akin to revolution. But escape velocity I just doubt. There's too much stupidity and worthlessness in this world to reach an asimov civilization, and the big picture metrics are all trending towards that low point now
>>18549068there have been atheists as long has there's been religion dumbass
>>18549068This is such a weird cope. There will only be atheists in ~20 years.
>>18549075it's a recent protestant heresy
>>18549168I give extra high points for Armstrong, because while we have absolutely no idea where politics or culture will evolve, Armstrong’s deeds are extremely unlikely to see any memoryholing and will only become more relevant if space tech becomes a more important part of human life.
>>18551640And to add to this, while many other people had more important individual contributions to the development of civilization and science (yeah, the mission was risky, but it could and would have happened with someone else in Armstrong’s place if he wasn’t there), simple symbolic value tends to persist over more complex stuff. First man on the moon, can’t take that away or replace it.
I wonder what will be corrupted or made into myth and legend
>>18549060In 50 years (let alone a thousand) humanity will either be exterminated, or converted into a cyborgian human-machine civilization. Religions will all be eliminated (there will be no jews or christians or muslism or buddhists or hindus etc) and we can't fully comprehend what life will be like for the beings in this civilization.Anyone thinking that humanity will persist as we are over the next few decades (let alone a thousand years from now) is simply a moron in denial.
>>18552383>>18552383>muh AI doomsday larpingyou people have been saying this same fucking thing for decades.
