How come neighbour turned against neighbour in a place where everyone viewed themselves as the same identity, a state they had long envisioned, and something the people today still believe would work out if it was given a second chance?What caused the sudden hostility to the point of genocide and war against each others, and why wouldnt it happen again if they tried a second time to unite?
Because when Tito ran Yugoslava, he didn't instill real unity among those who lived in Yugoslava and his death challenged the illusion he created with Yugoslava. Even when it was first created post-World War I, Yugoslava was where, for lack of a better phrase, "Serbs rule, everyone else drools".
>>18550938You never answered the question tho.How did neighbour turn against neighbour, and what stops it from happening again despite these same people today advocating for a new Jugoslavia?
it's always about religion, muslim vs christian
>>18550922>stitch together unhappy union between different identity groups>use heavy-handed state power to suppress grievances, punish anyone who addresses the elephant in the room>keep flimsy civic identity on life support with aggressive, nonstop propaganda>everything implodes the millisecond taboos on nationalism ease and the economy struggles a littleI'm sure it'll never happen in a western country ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>18550922>where everyone viewed themselves as the same identityWho the fuck told you that a Slovene, Bosnian and Macedonian view themselves as kindred spirits?
>>18550922>How come neighbor turned against neighborThey didn't. The conflict wasn't random anarchy, but demarcated by ethnic lines and people typically live in ethnically segregated neighborhoods, except for Americans after they abolished them to replace them with Suburbs.>where everyone viewed themselves as the same identityThey didn't>a state they had long envisionedThey hadn't>and something the people today still believe would work out if it was given a second chance?They don't>What caused the sudden hostilityIt wasn't sudden>to the point of genocide and war against each othersThere wasn't really a genocide. It was all just small-scale stuff on the tactical level. They didn't try hard enough.>and why wouldnt it happen again if they tried a second time to unite?It would.
>>18550922>What caused the sudden hostility to the point of genocide and war against each othersYugoslavia had a terrible economic crisis caused by the shock doctrine applied by IMF agent Jeffrey Sachs. There were misery and unemployment everywhere. Then politicians used this crisis to crank ethnic populism up to 11. Germany also saw a prime opportunity to colonise the Balkans economically by recognising Slovenia and Croatia. However none of this would have been so serious if Sachs had designed a smooth transition instead of insta-capitalism.Please don't look up Sachs' ethno-religious background, it is entirely unimportant.
>>18550994based jewish banker unraveling the globohomo slave state of the balkans
>>18550961you should kill yourself right now
>>18550922>What causedgermany and the pope
>>18550922Croats and Serbs always hated one other. Yugoslavia existed because the Anglo-French powers wanted it to
>>18551203>t. thinks history began in the 20th century
>>18551230Most westerners think that way, WW2 is the origin myth and WW1 is already obscure
>>18550922>in a place where everyone viewed themselves as the same identity,Because they didn't?
>>18550994>Yugoslavia had a terrible economic crisis caused by the shock doctrine applied by IMF agent Jeffrey Sachs. There were misery and unemployment everywhere. Then politicians used this crisis to crank ethnic populism up to 11. Germany also saw a prime opportunity to colonise the Balkans economically by recognising Slovenia and Croatia. However none of this would have been so serious if Sachs had designed a smooth transition instead of insta-capitalism.Maybe they shouldn't have taken out all those massive loans from the IMF in the 1970s to 80s then
>>18550938maybe that's because it was built upon the victory of serbs in ww1 who gave up 1/3 of their life for it, while the rest fought alongside the austrians? in reality, serbs should have just united the serb-majority areas into one serbia and not have gotten baited into yugoslavia
>>18550938and tito did not rule in favor of serbia at all, lol, that's why serbia was the only one so divided, while dalmatia, istria and slavonia all remained a singular part of croatia, and bosnia which was by far the most ethnically diverse was not divided.and hence the quote "a strong Yugoslavia is a weak Serbia" >summarizes a core political doctrine attributed to Josip Broz Tito to prevent Serbian domination within the federation. Because Serbs were the largest ethnic group, Tito deliberately decentralized power and created autonomous regions within Serbia to maintain ethnic balance.
>>185512671/3 of their lives*>The Kingdom of Serbia lost an estimated 1.1 to 1.3 million people during World War I. This devastating toll represented roughly 25% to 30% of its entire pre-war population and accounted for over half of its mobilized male troops>>18550938https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relocation_of_Serbian_industry_during_the_Informbiro_period
>>18551251>>18550994completely incorrect and you can check this yourself, yugoslavia's debt to gdp ratio was around 40%, which is lower than all of these countries presently, and significantly lower than croatia's 90% debt to gdp ratio in 2020>Croatia’s general government debt-to-GDP ratio sits at 56.3%. This level of government debt amounts to approximately €54.4 billion (roughly $64.4 billion USD) and represents a steady decline in the debt burden over recent years, down from 86.5% of GDP in 2020.>Serbia's government debt to GDP ratio sits at approximately 43.7% to 44.4%. This level represents a steady decline over the last several years, down from the roughly 55% highs seen during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic>Slovenia's general government debt-to-GDP ratio stands at approximately 65.7%. This places the country's public debt in a stable position, remaining significantly below the pandemic-era peak of over 80% and broadly in line with broader Eurozone averages.
>>18551269>"a strong Yugoslavia is a weak Serbia">>summarizes a core political doctrine attributed to Josip Broz Tito to prevent Serbian domination within the federation. Because Serbs were the largest ethnic group, Tito deliberately decentralized power and created autonomous regions within Serbia to maintain ethnic balance.and basically all of the yugo wars happened due to this
>>18551271>>18550938>The moving of the Serbian industry to western Yugoslav republics was a strategy of the government of the Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia to conduct massive transfer of industrial plants, machinery, technology and experts from PR Serbia to the western republics of Yugoslavia (primarily PR Croatia and PR Slovenia) during the Informbiro period (1948—52) and shortly after it. In some cases, only parts of industrial plants were moved while in others the whole factories were dismounted and transported out of Serbia.[1] Since the ratio of highly educated people was very low at that time, moving experts out of Serbia had substantial negative consequences for its future development.[2]>According to some sources the real reason was not to prevent those factories to fall in hands of Soviet enemies, but to punish Serbia for "Greater Serbian nationalism" by causing major economic damage to it.[6] Using old communist prejudices about privileged position of Serbia within Kingdom of Yugoslavia were among the reasons for Serbia, to be programmed for the slowest industrial development.[7] Although some industries were moved to Serbia from other republics, the balance shows that 43% industry moved out of Serbia more than moved into Serbia.[8]>CIA reported that plan of Yugoslav leaders to move factories from Serbia to Slovenia, supported by Slovenian and Croatian communists, met opposition of Serb and Montenegrin communists and that Tito supported Slovenian and Croatian communists.[9]
>>18551287>>18551271>>18550938>>According to a CIA report, Josip Broz Tito supported Slovenian and Croatian communists. The number of factories moved from Serbia to western Yugoslav republics is between 70 and 76, according to texts published in contemporary media.[3] The destination of moved Serbian industry were primarily the republics of Croatia and Slovenia, followed by Bosnia and Herzegovina and Montenegro, while some industry ended up in Albania.[4]>Since many new destinations for the Serbian industry were much closer to Soviet-controlled territories, i.e. Maribor in Slovenia or Varaždin in Croatia, than their original locations in Serbia, many authors concluded that the real reason for moving Serbian industries out of Serbia was not fear of Soviet invasion but communist intention to punish Serbian nationalists for their rhetoric and aspiration of reforming Yugoslavia as a Greater Serbian statei really don't know why the fuck people are trying to say a slovene-croatian dictator was ruling in favor of serbia, or what they're backing that with
>>18550978you don't even know what bosnian means, macedonian is a meme identity of bulgarian and albanian mutts who speak a language close to serbo-croatian. bosnian can be a serb, croat or a bosniak alikeand you have to understand the reality of the 20th century: first balkan war (1912-1913) against the ottoman empire (serbia greece and bulgaria declare war), brutal war, genocide and ethnic cleansing of turks from serbia and greece (bulgaria left a lot behind, google bulgarian turks) second balkan war (1913): serbia and greece against bulgariafirst world war (1914-1918): brutal war, 25-30% of serbian population dies, almost 50% of all males die (regardless of age)KINGDOM OF SERBS, CROATS AND SLOVENES FORMS HERE (led by serbian royal family)second world war: croat german puppet state genocide 300-500 serbs, expel 200k (same generation that later fought each other, same generation that lost brothers, sisters, parents in it)COMMUNIST YUGOSLAVIA FORMED HEREevery nationalist gets killed, serbia gets massively divided, it's ruled as "strong yugoslavia = weak serbia", not any different from the austrain or the ottoman empire
>>18550962>different identity groups
>>18550994I rusheart redpills
>>18551303there's no redpill there, it's literally false, except for the >Germany wanted to economically colonize the balkans
>>18551269I mean he was just correct thoughIf you don't do this, you end up like the UK where Scotland and Wales endlessly whinge about "we iz oppressed and shit" due to the mathematics of democracy and England outnumbering them. The UK kept it together by bribing these 2 with the prestige of Empire, but since that went away they've only been getting louder and bitchier. England would need to weaken itself in order to "equalize" things and appease them.The USA, Switzerland, Australia, and Canada all do this self-weakening of big states via their Upper Houses too (which provide totally disproportionate representation to smaller state units)
>>18550922>the sudden hostilityIt wasn't "sudden", it was always there but was suppressed by the Serbs for whom Yugoslavia had always been essentially "Greater Serbia", as they held most of the important positions in the government and economy and called the shots, allowing the other ethnicities to participate just enough to keep them quiet.When WWII broke out, the other Yugo ethnicities quite rightly tried to break away and when Communism collapsed, they did it again and this time, were successful which to this day causes endless seething by the Serbs.tl;dr it was the Serbs fault.
>place where everyone viewed themselves as the same identity
>>18551081>t. Nebojsha Srboljubovic
>>18550922>place where everyone viewed themselves as the same identityCitation needed>and something the people today still believe would work out if it was given a second chance?Citation needed
>>18551274Yeah pretty much. What you see in every other coherent European nation is a dominant center. Serbs were the biggest group and controlled the center. If Tito wanted a coherent nation that would stay intact after his demise then he needed to lean into that, but his appealing to minorities only fueled their coherence and strength, and therefore the ability to secede, of federal minority/local groups.If you compare it to Napoleon, a Corsican, he still leaned hard on the Parisians and used the wars to unite France further, Napoleon III continued in that way, and ultimately education in any language other than Parisian was banned as it became standard French.Even in Italy, where Florentines were 3% of the population, because Florentine Italian was still a literary language the kings of Sardinia-Piedmont again put their local language and ethnic interests subordinate to the overall goal of forging Italy and making Italians. Tito just couldn’t do what every successful nation builder in Europe did.
>>18551081And that is a good thing.
>>18551765fact: the so-called "croatia" was created by the vatican to divide Serbs on religious groundsfact: the term "bosniak" was invented in the 90's to further divide Serbs on religious grounds (see sandžak Serbs to dispel any accusation that this was a "religious war")fact: montenegrins are Serbsfact: north macedonia and slovenia broke off relatively peacefully because they are generally not classified as Serbs from a historical standpointfact: the so called state of "croatia"s borders were determined by the communists, should the so-called croatia wish to disregard the communists constitution and proclaim their own (vassal) state it is fair to say the borders should be redrawn as well.fact: bosnia had a peaceful resolution drawn up which, the muslim leader izetbegovic rejected at the last minute at the behest of the american government.
>>18550922south slavs are extremely tribalistic
>>18553948fact: (you) lost, serbjeet
Me as an Croat, its an easy anwser, because Croatians hate Serbs and Bosnians (I learned that way) because for years, Tito did an great job of ruling Yugoslavia but Nationalism wasn't gone and by 1991, the Yugoslavian Economy was in horrorble state, Nationalism was everyone (started with Slovenia which was the first to left, then Croatia, Bosnia, North Macedonia and then I think in 2009 Montenegro), so if that tried again, it would be another bloody Yugo war.
>>18550997He’s unironically right, Bosnian Islamists brought down Yugoslavia. Read Parenti’s book “To Kill A Nation”, NATO supported Bosnian Islamism so that Germany would replace the Yugoslavs as the dominant power in the Balkans
>>18554388It's really funny that all help provided by NATO in the war was to help Muslims directly or indirectly
>>18553952why?
>>18551299the bot thinks this is an answer to >>18550978
Germans are to blame, both the austrian and prussian variety.Slovenia and Croatia wanted out of Yugoslavia because their republics were the most economically productive. since slovenia and croatia were under Austrian rule, they were taught german values like ordnung. Meanwhile, Ottomans taught their subjects that mafia-style extortion, and boy fucking, were cool. Logically, slovenes and croats were more literate and cultured, and didn't want to be associated the other balkan people who they considered to be lesser. When independence happened, guess who was the first to recognize them? thats right, germans. why? because Germany had just gotten united and decided to flex its muscles again, if only for a while. they supplied weapons to croatia in defiance of an international arms embargo, and lobbied hard for international recognition. but why? to expand sphere of influence. turks did the same in bosnia and albania because of muh islam.
