I don't even care that Yuri Gagarin didn't actually say this. It's kino.
>god lives in the cloudsim an atheist and even i think this is the most retarded thing i've ever heard
>I don't even care that Yuri Gagarin didn't actually say this. It's kino.
>>18552959The problem is before we gained the power of flight and then spaceflight, that's literally where people imagined god lives. They move the goalposts every time we become sufficiently advanced.
>>18552961The fuck are you talking about? They knew other planets and celestial bodies existed for millennia. What do you think they thought the moon was, God's golf ball?
>>18552966>The fuck are you talking about? They knew other planets and celestial bodies existed for millenniaYeah and they also used to think they all orbited the earth.
when Jesus flies up to heaven to be with his fatherwhich direction do you think he flew? (up)
>>18552995>and then Jesus ascended to the Nth dimensioneven if it said this you'd still be like "erm that is impossible" so what's the point?
>>18552997That Christians says exactly this kind of shit to cope with their source material being old and primitive
>>18553004Okay.
>>18552997Nobody 2000 years ago would say that Jesus ascended to the Nth dimension. This is a highly anachronistic belief.
>gay man loves kitsch (Soviet edition)It’s simply to die for, isn’t it girlfriend?
>>18552957
>>18553029Why do you have to die first for God to become visible? Why doesn't he just show himself? Why did he show himself to jewish sandniggers 3000 years ago but not to people today?
>>18553039To mess with (You), specifically. But unironically.
>>18553015They believed that the heavens were above the firmament. So Jesus flew up into the sky, and went through it. Since modern man knows that the firmament isn't real, Christians reinterpret his ascension to mean he flew up for a while before teleporting to heaven, a place that exist in a separate dimension from our reality. If you tell them this they'll accuse you of making a strawman.
>I don't even care that Yuri Gagarin didn't actually say this. It's kin-ACK
>>18553481> Jesus flew up into the sky, and went through itJesus flew up into a cloud - marker of God's presence/glory throughout OT (kavod): cloud filling the Tabernacle, the Temple, Transfiguration cloud from which God speaks, and so on. That is the primary angle. God was understood to be transcendent as early as OT (1 Kings 8:27): "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built"
>>18553526So you're making the argument that heaven is in the clouds, or what? Since we know that there's nothing there. Meaning Jesus must have teleported to a different dimension once he got into the clouds.
>>18553532God is transcendent. This was understood at least as early as whenever Kings was composed. Cloud is a symbol of God's presence. It's a standard symbol. It's used for our benefit - similar to how Jesus applied mud to blind man's eyes when He cured his blindness. It's done so the witnesses can connect 2 things easily.
>>18553536So he teleported to a different dimension gotcha. That wasn't so hard to say, you didn't need to add the religious allegory.
>>18553540No, I said God is transcendent.
>>18553541>God is transcendent That doesn't mean anything. Paul in Corinthians states that the ressurection of Christ physically happened and that without belief in this persons faith is dead and meaningless. Obviously if Jesus resurrected then the rest of the story must have taken place, meaning he flew into the sky. Since he didn't fly into outer space, and since heaven doesn't physically exist in the clouds, he must have moved into a different world, outside of normal reality. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
>>18553551>transcendence doesn't mean anything! it was a different dimension!!!!lmfao find a dictionary
>>18553557Transcendence means being outside of a persons physical perceptions. It's a cop out used by various religions when someone asks if the physical aspect of the divine can be perceived. I can easily claim that the Greek polytheist religion is correct, and if someone asks me why Mount Olympus doesn't have any palaces of the gods, I can just say they're transcendent. Look at abrahamic religions, their ancient mythology must have happened for the religion to be true, meaning the Red Sea was parted, manna fell from heaven, God appeared and followed the Jews as a pillar of clouds/fire, ect. You can't read all of that and then declare that any requests for physical evidence should be avoided because muh transcendent nature of the divine.
>>18553536The question isn't whether yahweh is transcendent. It is about where the heavens are located. The lower heaven is just the sky, which is the stuff above the earth and below the firmament. The other heaven is above the firmament and that's yahweh's dwelling place.
>>18553565You're moving goalposts. This thread is about an opinion that going to space and saying there's no God is kino, when in actuality it's uneducated and retarded.
>>18552966So where is the firament and the waters above the firament?
>>18553574>hur dur Genesis is not literalyes we know anon, and Church Fathers knew and wrote about it plainly, it's not a gotcha
>>18553570Why? The majority of people throughout history believed in a physical, not transcendent idea of heaven and that this was in the clouds. Do you think a 6th century peasant knew about metaphysics and deduced that God didn't have any physical presence on earth like modern abrahamics do? This contradicts your own scriptures that clearly state God physically materialised and acted in the world, and I'm not talking just about Christ. God isn't in the clouds and you're salty that any person can easily point out that the majority of people believed in a physical, literal heaven on this planet, before modern science disproved it, so it went into the realm of the unseen. Your cherry picked bible verses don't stand up to the rest of it which clearly states that God acted physically on the earth. But let me ask you one question, during exodus how did the Jews get manna? Did it materialise in the clouds out of nothing? Was it condensed water vapor that was transformed into it? Or did God open a portal to Heaven and order the angels to dump manna every day? How did this PHYSICALLY happen?
>>18553586It's retarded because it's two retards arguing: ruthodox peasants/clergy - precisely the 6th century peasant types in your example with their garbled blend of Christianity and Tsar cult - and russian commies with their garbled understanding of Christianity/communism. It's the equivalent of a screencap of a twitter debate between flat earthers and hollow earthers.God can physically manifest, act physically, AND be transcendent. I don't know what's so hard to understand here. That people believed in firmament is not a problem to me - our understanding of Bible evolves, and it's an accepted fact. The fact that people went from very concrete, basic explanations like "God is on the mountain" to "God is transcendent" is in line with how human thinking developed - abstract thinking was very uncommon in ancient times, people simply did not have the concept of "transcendence". It would be weird if it was the other way around. As we get more and more intelligent, we will uncover more and more of the teaching.>manna technical detailsI don't know. How am I, or anyone else, is supposed to know this? Bible is inerrant for the purpose of our spiritual salvation. Not for historical facts.
>>18552961That is not true at all. Even the cosmology in the most ancient variations of the Bible and Sumerian myths have “the heavens” as a place beyond space.
>>18552968They knew this in 200BC. It wasn’t proven until Whites proved in the 1600s
>>18552961>>18552961Only retarded peasants believed God lived in the clouds. Learned people had entire cosmologies about the universe and planets and shit.Elder Scrolls lore is kinda an example of what medieval monks thought the universe looked like. God was always considered to be outside our universe, beyond some firmament where the entire mortal universe was contained.
>>18553962Pythagoras knew the solar system had ten planets because ten was the perfect number in his mathematical calculations so it had to be ten.
>>18553965This is why you shouldn't learn history from dumb video games.
>>18553962It wasn't proven there were 52+ genders until whites discovered it
>>18553958Completely wrong. The heavens have always included the sky, planets and stars.
>>18553969Screw you, Morrowind is great and TR is great.
>>18554008>OMG IT'S JUST LIKE MY VIDEO GAMESshhh the adults are speaking
>>18554012On 4chan /his/?
>>18553965>Elder Scrolls loreStick a glock in your mouth and pull the trigger
>>18553976They have seven heavens you illiterate mongreloid
>>18553967He never said this, and you would know this if you were educated beyond middle school because Pythagoras authored no works.
>>18554026give us a demonstration, Troonella
>>18553821>Bible is inerrant for the purpose of our spiritual salvation. Not for historical facts.Your take on Christianity is compatible with the manna story being made-up? That's fucked up
>>18552957>In a 2006 interview, Gagarin's friend Colonel Valentin Petrov stated that Gagarin never said these words and that the quote originated from Khrushchev's speech at the plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU about the state's anti-religion campaign. Petrov also said Gagarin had been baptised into the Russian Orthodox Church as a child, and a 2011 Foma magazine article quoted the rector of the Orthodox Church in Star City saying, "Gagarin baptized his elder daughter Yelena shortly before his space flight; and his family used to celebrate Christmas and Easter and keep icons in the house".
>>18554601Don't care. It's kino.
