Your response?
>>18574827Could have posted a gorillion better Hoppe quotes than this boomer rhetorical truism. Kind of gives off the wrong impression. Here's a better one:>Democracy has nothing to do with freedom. Democracy is a soft variant of communism, and rarely in the history of ideas has it been taken for anything else>Democracy virtually assures that only bad and dangerous men will ever rise to the top of governmentNow we can properly fish for responses, anon.
>>18574827Once again you are correct Professor Hoppe.
>>18574839I prefer this
>>18574839>>18574858based
>>18574839>Democracy virtually assures that only bad and dangerous men will ever rise to the top of governmentYeah, unlike all the absolute monarchies and feudal kingdoms of the past that were so successful that no one ever rebelled against them. Truly we can only be free if an absolute, unaccountable head of state is installed. In fact people loved absolute rule so much that they never ever said anything bad about it.
>>18574858This is extremely based
>>18574827In the current economic system, money isn't created by being printed. The amount of paper dollars in circulation is only a fraction of those that exist in the economy. Rather money is created by banks giving loans, and it's not as obvious that this cannot make society richer.>but then why are there poor countries, why not give everyone big loans?Because the debt would be worthless if there's no expectation it could be paid.
>>18575578He’s right. Hitler saved Europe by crippling the Soviet Union which was the greater evil.
>>18574858I guess you can also put it that way.
>>18574827Paper money can sometimes increase the efficiency of transactions by a small degree. Though I am splitting hairs, broadly speaking his statement is basically true. I still fully concede to Hoppe, after reading Democracy: The God That Failed it is clear this guy is actually very well read, not just about his own side like some ideologue but also opposing views and the more mundane facts of the world and he only reached his conclusions after long careful critical consideration. It is a wonder why he is not more widely revered. I get the same sort of feeling reading Milton Friedman, they never miss, and yet academia and society as a whole tries to hush them up.
>>18575599He might be well read and engage in careful consideration, but if the takes he ends up giving are like this one >>18574858 I can see why people aren't interested.
>>18574839>>Democracy has nothing to do with freedom.Yes it does because having control over your government allows you to prevent the government from taking away your freedoms. The most free countries are ALWAYS democratic.
>>18576617
>>18576948Nirvana Fallacy. Democracy is still the superior system despite your strawmen and cherrypicking.
>>18576951Honestly, what is your best argument for democracy? I really can't see how mob rule makes things better, do you have to assume the population has some kind of common sense or something?
>>18576960It allows the people to be held accountable for their governments actions. If you can't see the value in this then there is no helping you I'm afraid.
>>18576948Why do you think that a Hoppean society won't just implement those things as well? Take vaccines as an example. His libertarian society can just declare that vaccines are mandatory in order to protect the most important piece of private property (your own life). Anyone going against the vaccine mandates is committing an attack on your personal liberty and property rights by spreading disease.
>>18577018NTA they would, the point is pluralism. You have a shit ton of microstates, some would be tiny stalinist terror shitholes no doubt.
>>18574827So it turns out that the quantity of the medium of exchange used to trade goods doesn't increase the quantity of goods?Revolutionary.
>>18574858fucking lolberts need to be put before a firing squad and shot, or at least laughed at
Libertarians always think this is some "gotcha" because they're so retarded they think money is some magical entity and not merely a convenience invented to make bartering and the transfer of debts more efficient.
>>18576960A state exists to protect the interests of those controlling it. Democracy unifies the interests of the state with the interests of its subjects by making the people, whether directly or indirectly, the ones controlling it. Thus a Democracy strengthens the legitimacy and power of the state, and thus its ability to succeed against other states, by ensuring that the population has a method with which to ensure the state continues to serves their interests.
>>18575663>if something is popular that makes it true>democracy is an inherent goodHoly reddit. You said that with complete sincerity too.In the 1930s you'd be happily informing me of democracy's greatest flaw, the majority voting to oppress a minority, like jews in nazi germany or black people in the south. However since the 1960s a coalition of ethnic minorities, "feminists", homosexuals and liberal white men became the majority, so naturally you did a 180 and pushed the notion of a "common good" everyone has to abide by. We are not to be judged by the content of our character, as originally promised in the 60s, rather we get a chorus of clowns each pointing their fat fingers and screeching in unison.>YOUR RACIAL MICROAGGRESSIONS ARE WHY MY SON DIDN'T GET HIS HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA AND JOINED A GANG>WE DESERVE PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT 'CAUSE OF THE GLASS CEILING WAGE GAP, NO I DON'T CARE THAT WOMEN AND MINORITIES ARE ACTUALLY PAID MORE ADJUSTED FOR SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE, OBJECTIVITY IS A CHARACTERISTIC OF WHITE SUPREMACISM>I AM A REAL WOMAN WHY WON'T YOU LET ME SHARE A BATHROOM WITH YOUR 9 YEAR OLD DAUGHTERNow you act shocked when there is renewed interest in factionalism to escape the quasi-socialist mob rule nightmare you promised wouldn't happen. You will no doubt see the irony in the fact we are now the minority, but the difference is we are not desperately begging for acceptance, we are not dysgenic parasites seeking a host, we're trying to scrape you off our hides.
>>18575589I know what he means but isn't this a paradox, since his philosophy is also preaching intolerance and persecution of the intolerant? Or is that the point?
>>18576960Well I think that all non-democratic systems have the same problem. When the government is not accountable to the people corruption and impunity will increase. The only way to remove a one party system is to dismantle it by force, so it will be inherently self conscious about this. This makes it impossible to be loyal opposition, as state security cannot differentiate between someone who is loyal to the state but thinks its making a critical policy mistake, or wants to expose a corrupt party member, and someone who wants to end party leadership entirely. This makes it impossible to criticize questionable policy decisions which makes critical policy mistakes more likely.In a democratic system if the government is failing to serve its people well the people can organize opposition and remove the party from office in the next election. In a one party system your only option is to either wait until the leader dies, which could take decades and there's no guarantee the next person will be any better. Or you overthrow the party violently. This will kill many innocent people, disrupt the lives of many more, destroy the economy and infrastructure, and may not even be successful. Even if it is successful there's STILL no guarantee the change in leadership will actually improve things.
>>18577261>WHY WON'T YOU LET ME SHARE A BATHROOM WITH YOUR 9 YEAR OLD DAUGHTERThere is an unstated assumption, which is that transgender people go to women's toilets not because they need to use a toilet, but rather because they, unlike cisgender women, are there to prey on children, AND that it really wouldn't matter if those same people were to go to men's toilets instead, meaning that molesting male children is fine, but molesting female children is not fine.Why do women have to be special? Why do we have to believe that our daughters are somehow more vulnerable to threats from pedophiles (especially transgender pedophiles) than our sons? Can male children not be raped too? Can adult men not rape other adult men?I'm not saying we shouldn't be against rapists or pedophiles - we should have harsh sentences for proven predators, but we shouldn't expect that regular people will all of a sudden become pedophile rapists just because they're crossdressing. If they were going to rape people, they would've probably done it even without having to crossdress.
>>18576964>It allows the people to be held accountable for their governments actions. What does this sentence even mean and is this what actually happens in reality?Can someone defend democracy without using vague, schoolbook abstractions?>>18577244Again, is this what happens in practice? Nobody voted on or wanted any of the shit we are getting
>>18579014>Again, is this what happens in practice? Nobody voted on or wanted any of the shit we are gettingPeople keep voting for parties that keep doing the things that they're doing.
>>18577261>niggers and faggots have rights now>therefore, fuck the constitution and having inalienable rights and shitClassic.
>>18579027Because they have limited optionsAnd they vote for people who promise to stop doing the things, then keep doing themThere's literally no way out
>>18579031This is cancer. You are a cancer on conversation and thought.
>>18579041>Because they have limited optionsThey don't, people are free to start their own parties, run for office or simplest of all - contact their representative. >And they vote for people who promise to stop doing the things, then keep doing themIf this is the case then we should expect that every single elected politician is replaced every cycle. If they so egregiously betray their voters then their voters can hold them accountable and replace them the next cycle.
>>18579049>If this is the case then we should expect that every single elected politician is replaced every cycle. If they so egregiously betray their voters then their voters can hold them accountable and replace them the next cycle.Weird I guess the system doesn't work the way it's supposed to then, just like I said.
>>18579066>Weird I guess the system doesn't work the way it's supposed to then, just like I said.Because the participants in the system don't use it that way. They are fully free and entitled to, most just choose not to. Their lives are so comfortable they don't really care about politics, but that is not a fault of the system.
>>18579075You are really married to this civics 101 ideaObviously we are not getting the government we want, and no individual person can change a thing. And no group of people has succeeded in changing it either.>just form your own party!Literally hundreds of parties and such groups have been formed, it doesn't work.Why defend a system where nobody gets what they want. >just vote harder!fucking ridiculous
>>18579081>Obviously we are not getting the government we wantWho and we, and what sort of government do we want? Pro or anti abortion? Pro or anti immigration? Private or public healthcare? Where are all these questions where the population is overwhelmingly in agreement on policy and all the politicians (even those in direct opposition to each other) are in agreement to take extremely unpopular stances?>Why defend a system where nobody gets what they want. Because the system works if people care to make it work, and like it's been famously said it's the worst system except all the other systems.>fucking ridiculousDo you know why politicians cater to old people so much? Because they vote. Do you know why they don't cater to younger people as much? Because they don't vote as much.
Brown people is it really that hard to grasp.
>>18575589I know this is posted in jest, but people really ought to read stuff before making silly infographics.>The PoT is just a footnote.Likewise, the 'requires' is absolutely false.The point is that the Open Society should be able to be intolerant to the intolerant, if the need arises.Instead people see this as a blanket endorsement to purge chuds/commies/whatever.
>>18576960I don't think your argument really applies to modern democracies, not that they could not be better.For example, countries generally don't let foreigners, children, and criminals vote. In the past this also applied to the poor, women, and certain minorities.There is no reason, why a country could not narrow their voter bases again, for example by literacy and voter ID requirements, or introducing a maximum voting age.In that manner, you filter out: retards, selfish boomers, and foreign parasites.This might be less effective in the US, but in Europe this will probably improve things drastically.
>>18576960Democracy does prevent a North Korea style dictatorship from arising. A country like India, despite being extremely poor and corrupt, has avoided turbo hierarchical centralization under a cult of personality like Stalin and Mao.It is not a perfect guarantee of liberty of course. Ironically you will find more liberty in China as long as you don't prance around going on and on about Tiananmen square and that kung fu feng shui cult, whatever it was called.
>>18579107Because our societies are mostly old you dysgenic freak.
>>18574827He's right about Monarchy and Democracy.
>>18579604No, older people consistently show up to the polls more often. They are by far a more safer demographic to target over slacktivists who retweet politicians but then don't show up on the day when it actually matters.
