Why did they rape Europe so hard that they changed the genetic makeup of all Europeans at the time?
>>18576296Before users who learned their knowledge from Twitter profiles show up and try to "discredit" Yamnaya in comparison to the corded ware, although is true that most Indo-European languages descend from Corded Ware, Corded Ware itself derives from Yamnaya, and the two groups were largely similar genetically and culturally. Yamnaya expansions reached Mongolia and Tajikistan by the early Bronze Age, and contributed to the Paleo-Balkan linguistic sphere, including Armenian and Greek. Recent genomic evidence also documents Yamnaya presence in Mesopotamia. The scale and speed of these migrations were likely facilitated by the use of horses for transport rather than warfare. Yes, they were already riding horses back then... All of this while remaining genetically homogeneous. Genetic data show a Yamnaya individual from Samara, 3213 BC, and an Afanasievo individual from Russia, 2900 BC, shared 139.8 cM of IBD DNA. This indicates first- or second-degree relatedness, with a most recent common ancestor approximately 8 to 15 generations prior. Given their geographic separation of 2,586 km, their migration rate of 8.3 km per year. Quite rapid movements and they possibly called themselves "Aryans"
>>18576296>The scale and speed of these migrations were likely facilitated by the use of horses for transport>their migration rate of 8.3 km per year. Quite rapid movementsIt is interesting to see how the word for "horse" was coined:*h1ók̑u (direct) ~ *h1ék̑u- (oblique) "swiftness"-> *h1ek̑u̯-ós "having swiftness, swift"-> *h1ék̑u̯-os "the one having swiftness; horse"Höfler, S. (2024). Linnaean linguistics: ‘Bear’, ‘horse’, ‘wolf’ and the Indo-European phylogeny from a zoographical perspective. In Indo-European Interfaces. Stockholm University Press.Related to this is the mythological theme where horses are said to fly or to travel as fast as (or faster than) the wind.
>>18576517
>>18576517>>18576366That’s not true.
>>18576572Wow, there are so many arguments here that I'm really at a loss for words>>18576517Interesting parallel. I highly recommend you read this article in question.See the photo.The map connects pairs of ancient individuals with IBD16 cM DNA using gray lines. That is, close relatives with a common ancestor around 6-10 generations ago. To study only long-distance migrations, they filtered out people who lived up to 500 years apart and separated by at least 500 km. In the 3 periods analyzed - 4500-3500, 3500-2500 and 2500-1500 BC - the 3500-2500 BC period stands out. It is the time of the Yamnaya, Corded Ware and Afanasievo expansion. This is where many long lines appear connecting genetically close but geographically ridiculously distant people.This clearly shows a direct and rapid physical movement of populations in the Bronze Age, not just slow and gradual cultural diffusion. The Yamnaya x Afanasievo case, with a gradient of 139.8 cm and a distance of 2586 km, is an extreme example of this. Indo-European expansions were extremely rapid and violent "pulses" Andronovo expansion its also a good parallel, Bell Beakers reached Brittain, France, Iberia and Italy in a hundred years or even less again in a seperate burst.https://www.rfberlin.com/network-paper/climate-and-prehistoric-migration/
>>18576631>We use the median rather than the mean because the per-pair speed distribution has a heavy right tail. Horizontal reference lines mark canonical estimates from the literature: 1 km/yr for the Neolithic wave of advance (Ammerman and Cavalli-Sforza, 1971) and 4.2 km/yr for the Yamnaya expansion (Racimo et al., 2020). IBD truly reflects the migration of people, not just "gene exchange" or "diffusion of ideas." The Yamnaya migrated much faster, reaching or exceeding 4.2 km/year. That's why the Yamnaya expansion was so rapid and homogeneous. It wasn't cultural diffusion. It was real people moving hundreds of kilometers in a few generations, on horseback.
>>18576647>>18576631All of this is being misinterpreted, and you're being biased. Yamnaya didn't have horses; they only used horses in the Sintashta culture, which wasn't Proto-Indo-Iranian.
>>18576660>misinterpreted>biasedHow? People can literally read the article and look at the graphs for themselves, and how exactly are my opinions dissociated from the article's conclusions? Yamnaya and other Indo-Europeans migrated very rapidly, reaching or exceeding 4.2 km/year. The Yamnaya expansion was driven by the direct physical movement of people over hundreds of kilometers in a few generations, and not just by a slow cultural diffusion. How is this biased? And see for yourself above.>Yamnaya didn't have horsesYou're stuck in the past. They not only had domesticated horses, but they also used them for transportation.>Sintashta culture, which wasn't Proto-Indo-Iranian.Wrong and off topic
>>18576666>You're stuck in the past. They not only had domesticated horses, but they also used them for transportationNo. Yamnaya did not actively participate in an ""Aryan"" conquest on horseback in 3000 those were useless ponies
>>18576677As I said, you're stuck in the past. This was already evident in their vocabulary>>18576647 and now with archaeology and genetics.You lost
>>18576690Ops, meant to>>18576517
See also the related photo. The arguments against Yamnaya equestrianism have always been quite weak and ad hoc. Basically, it was said that the 4 CWC horses in Librado's study all came from the same ritual site, Hohler Stein. And with almost identical dates, probably from the same event. And in other CWC sites, horses are also rare and were prestige/ritual animals, not transport animals. But why is this argument so terrible today? Librado used the "lack of DOM2 in CWC" to say that Yamnaya did not ride DOM2. But with only 4 horses from 1 ritual, that doesn't prove much. The Yamnaya CPONT horses are in the same genetic clade as modern DOM2 horsesGiven the Vedic (Corded Ware) and Greek (Yamnaya) traditions separated by millennia, it would not be logical that the horse had not been used since that time and had significant cultural relevance to the point of preserving identical poetic formulas.
>>18576713https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ady7336
>>18576713>>18576690>>18576715As I said, they are very small and useless, as your article claims they were disassembled, which is not useful for travel. Besides, why does the Eurocentric media already have a confirmation bias about horses = Europe? And what about the horse bones found in India from the Harrapan period, which were domesticated before any Yamnaya near Surkatoda? Why is this ignored? Rajaram proved evidence of horses in IVC seals and icons. That's not how science works, this article is incredibly weak. It really sharpens the nationalists' spirits to know that the Muh horse and Muh Aryan Yamnaya
>>18576732Oh my God... someone give me a sedative.>which is not useful for travelSo, you're going against the data presented in the article simply because... why exactly? You haven't presented well-founded arguments about why the methodology is flawed. You said that horses were "useless," but that's not what archaeological and genetic evidence shows. >EurocentricNext?>have a confirmation bias about horses = Europe?Next?>And what about the horse bones found in India from the Harrapan periodWe have found no evidence of domesticated horses (Equus caballus) in any mature IVC context. That's your own schizophrenia. Pic related, archaeologist Jonathan Kenoyer clarifies that there's no satisfying evidence of horses in IVC.>SurkatodaNice try, The identification of a true horse (Equus caballus) is contested by serious zooarchaeologists from Harvard, such as Richard Meadow, whose conclusion is that the specimens identified as Equus caballus (by a single guy, btw) are actually an Indian wild ass or, at best, unidentifiable due to their fragmentary nature. See "A Comment on “Horse Remains from Surkotada” by Sándor Bökönyi">Rajaram>icons>sealsLmao there's any evidence of horses in IVC seals and icons are fake. Nice try
>>18576751>horses in IVC seals and icons are fake
>>18576296>Whydunno. what made them "do the horde thing" i can only guess. "pastoral", herders. something wiped out their herds? could have been some conflict, i think giant traps were found on the steppe area, something like the "desert kites", big. maybe whoever built those wiped out the yamnaya herds. maybe they did it themselves, who knows. what i also thought was odd about that story was they seemed to have easily traversed the english channel, something that gave the romans pause 2000 years later. was there a land bridge, some doggerland remnant? then within 200 years they apparently had killed every man in england. whole epic seems odd
>>18576631Its me>>18576517You are wrong
>>18577603That post is me. What are you trying?
>>18577603I'm not a big fan of Michael Witzel, but he explained the farce here by refuting this issue and, ironically, Rajaramhttps://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2000-October/023168.html>>18577607Its a schizophrenic
>>18576517what about the new chart of Aryan cognates, my friend? Or the booklet? I thought you said you needed financial support because your PC and house were damaged by a tornado. I donated, but where are the updates? People are anxious, and if this continues, perhaps we should resolve this through more legal means.
>>18577843Did you actually give money to some anon or are you taking a piss?
>>18577843Lmao, no I didn't.I guess I should get to work on it though. I want to see it finished for myself. I've been studying PIE ablaut patterns lately.>>18577844He's joking.
>>18577850I think you're on Twitter, am I crazy?
>>18577919I am not on Twitter. I took the earlier picture from Twitter (using nitter) though.
>>18577972Ah yes, I think some people were using the same sources there. That place is schizophrenic when it comes to the term "Aryan." There are a lot of upset Indians.
>>18578008I'm not him, but it's because Irmin's article became popular there.
