I sympathize with animal suffering a lot more than human suffering.Humans learned to cope. We have the mental capacity to process our suffering, handle it with reason, and even make it look pretty. We can romanticize things and hope for a better ending, we can look at things from other perspectives or believe in a deity that will grant us eternal happiness once this all ends.Animals just suffer. Some would feel the same physical pain and never be able to process it, never be able to hope for a better outcome, and never know what had happened and why.I live in a country where I see stray cats and kittens everywhere. They die from thirst in the summer and freeze to death in winter. Some would hide under cars just to get accidentally crushed in the morning, and some never find enough food to survive.Sometimes I debate whether I should even feed these cats: I'm keeping them alive momentarily to ease my guilt just for them to suffer for a bit longer. Death isn't necessarily a bad thing.We are selfish creatures, all of us. We don't even realize it as much as we should, though it stops being objectively bad but rather ugly. I wouldn't be writing this now if I wasn't selfish, my own guilt drives me.I truly hate this world. This is an awful place to be.
I feel the same anon. Existence is evil.
Herzog said it best.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL99NDUWJ0A
>>18577042humans are animals therefore you ought have the same sympathies
>>18577042Stop projecting your own fear of suffering onto others.
>>18577042Vegan mumbo jumboThere's no evidence that animal possess qualia or self-awarenessTheir suffering is no more meaningful that the suffering of rocks and trees.Only like 5 species of animals can pass the mirror test, the minimal threshold of self-possession
>>18578763>muh evidence
>>18578763>There's no evidence that animal possess qualia or self-awarenessYes there is, because animals don't like being eaten. You try to eat/hunt down an animal and they generally try to run away or go into fight-or-flight mode. That is direct empirical evidence that you can regularly observe. Fruits and vegetables not only don't mind being eaten, but many of them rely on being eaten by animals in order to spread their species out and thrive
>>18578767>I don't need evidence cause seeing doggy welp makes me le sad
>>18578770I can program a roomba that will try to get away if damaged, is the roomba suffering now?
>>18578777>is the roomba suffering now?No because we have direct empirical evidence of you programming it to do this, dumbas
>>18578780So your empathy refuses to feel the pain and suffering of poor roomba thats currently crawling away after being punched with a wrench? What if I also program it to make whimpy noises and plead for its life? I can also slap a cute puppy face photo on top of it, for maximum empathy.
>>18578786AI isn't sentient and your roomba doesn't have feelings
>>18578791But how do you know for sure? You already said that no real evidence is necessary as long as the creature in question shows interest in self-preservation
We live in a senseless hell, its literally pointless to even think about it. Its all mechanic, a planet that spews out life just so it can suffer and die. A minority are more fortunate than others, and have money and a "stable" mind, which forms hallucinations that life is great in fact. Its all a mirage.Like I said, its pointless to even make the observation because life goes forward no matter your shitty opinion on the matter.
>>18578796no its not pointless and it can be helped, this mindset you have is your self administered poison.
>>18577042This is total nonsense. There's nothing to process, cope with or hope for when it comes to pain. Humans have a unique talent of turning occasional pain into chronic suffering.
We live in a purposeful paradise, its literally inspiring to even think about it. Its all poetic, a planet that supports life that grows, experiences and evolves. A minority are less fortunate than others, and have deluded themselves into making hallucinations that life is awful in fact. It's all a mirage.It's always worth it to make the observation because life goes forward no matter their shitty opinion on the matter.
>>18577042Every creature you help and feed will give testimony about you before God when you're being judged. All animals belong to God and everything you do for them is a loan you are giving out to God himself. And he will repay his debts most generously. Much more does he repay those who feed the poor and homeless among the humans.There's a day he has picked where he will come and settle all scores. No injustice will go unpunished, no kindness will go unrewarded and no suffering will go unconsoled.The suffering will be consoled and they will not remember their suffering any longer and they will be fully satisfied with their consolation.All those who made them suffer he will make to come kiss their feet and beg them for forgiveness. And they will not be forgiven.The Absolute Master of Justice will surely do so.
>>18578871Man those hundreds, possibly thousands of mosquitoes I murdered will fuck me up in Jeezy's courtroom. Not to mention flies, bees, spiders, I think I burned several anthills for fun as a kid. What about food? I'm on a borderline carnivore diet. I ate holocaust amounts of chicken, beef, eggs, turkeys etc. Will every unborn hatchling I used for omelette stand in court and say I was a bad goy?
>>18578950>Will every unborn hatchling I used for omelette stand in court and say I was a bad goy?Yes.
>>18578952Fug man, I guess I have no reason to be nice to animals anymore. May as well start beheading stray cats and poison the neighbours dog. What's another drop in my ocean of sin?
>>18578796>>18578858Top keke
>>18578968Each sin makes the punishment worse. God gave us animals to eat and God does not expect us to be loving to pest like mosquitoes. Mosquitoes are mostly a punishment on the wicked. But the animals we eat must be treated kindly and killed with respect. Must meats and eggs you buy in a supermarket comes from animals who lived a horrible existence and were slaughtered as if they were nothing. And all of us will have to give an explanation to God about consuming them once we knew it was happening.Seek God's mercy and ask him for forgiveness while you're alive because mercy will not be granted to you after you die. Or else God will hold you accountable even for every feeling that you hurt.
>>18578871I should just start believing this. Just fucking stab myself in the thigh with a safety pin when I start to even slightly question. I would be so much happier.Wait, is that what Kierkegaard was on about?
>>18578990They mock this but it is great wisdom
>>18578763>there is no evidence animals possess self awareness>https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0608062103
>>18578763All animals have self-awareness to a degree. Otherwise, their brains, their limbs, the sum of their cells, literally wouldn't function as a shared whole. This self-awareness isn't as refined as in humans, but this model created by the brain is, fundamentally, operating on a lot of the same principles. When an animal is hurt, its cells become stressed and send signals to the brain so that it can react appropriately. This is called pain, and it operates on the exact same principles that the pain you can experience does. Somewhere, "something" HAS to process those signals. Those signals have to be a negative signal. Negative signals are experienced painfully >>18577042You're not wrong but the solution is so drastic that it's inconceivable to us. Some 4.4 billion years ago, this cosmically impossible configuration of life happened to emerge, and ever since then it's just been an unstoppable train, natural selection heaping more and more pain on top because pain is so, so evolutionarily powerful
>>18577042> I wouldn't be writing this now if I wasn't selfish, my own guilt drives me.Guilt about what? Being human?
>>18578777Yes. And if qualias are real even though they're not, it would have an individual experience.You are no more than a damn machine, face it.
>>18578777Useful things to know when engaging in this discussion>Individual cells and bacteria have their own intelligence, if you define intelligence not by the fact of having neurons, but the functionality, that is being able to sense the environment and adapt to it in a way that works and is non random at all. Genes being selected is semi random, they stay for a reason but generally mutations are neutral or deleterious, therefore dna is not intelligent>Humans have noticed two different workings of their brain. One does the difficult task of doing stuff like learning how to walk, talk, move, react to neurosteroid signals, in a way that makes the human beung function. The other part is the one we refer as our conscious self, and generally it is bound to the task of evaluating your position in the social order, what you are to people, what people are to you, some parts of language used for reasoning, so called "intentional action", at least those that you can review. It can be thought that this function in the brain might be either absent or underdevelopped in most species, because most of its uses are tailored for the human needs of social interaction, self assessment and rapid correction of some behaviour, mainly those of reasoning. This is what I understand by the word "reflect">There are no bounds that separates a thing from an other thing, it's all about statistical significance. There might be levels of consiousness, such as how when waking up theres a slow coming to a high level of awareness. You don't always focus on all your senses. Therefore consciousness might not be an easy discrete property one has or hasn't.>Individuals don't exist, it's merely a word that is convenient when we know what we're talking about.
>>18578034>>18577042>I truly hate this world. This is an awful place to be.>Existence is evil.If life bad why not leave?
>>18579794>>18577042>16 year old's first existentialism
>>18579909>Individuals don't exist, it's merely a word that is convenient when we know what we're talking about.
