Did any Fascists ever point out how pretty much every communist government wound up having to adopt fascistic type policies as a way to demonstrate the validity of their claims? Pretty much every socialist government ended up becoming nationalistic, militaristic, imperialist, and supporting class collaboration plus private enterprise subordinated to state interests. You could argue that China today is basically a corporatist state. Also, separate question, did any Fascists believe in forming alliances with or giving critical support to communists? The way I see it, Fascists and Communists have more in common with each other than they do with the conservative or liberal establishment.
>>18577941>Did any Fascists ever point out how pretty much every communist government wound up having to adopt fascistic type policies as a way to demonstrate the validity of their claims?Well... Marxism is the dictatorship of the proletariat. The problem is that you've never read anything so you don't know what they argued about. That would require either reading about history to know what they argued about or reading theory to know what Marxism is really about.>>18577941>did any Fascists believe in forming alliances with or giving critical support to communists?NS wanted freedom from capitalism just like communists do. Marxists consider socialism an in-between state, almost appropriating socialism and monopolizing it as part of it and not a separate ideology. They both can work for their aim is to generate market through industrialism.
>>18577997>Well... Marxism is the dictatorship of the proletariat.I'm aware. But literally every communist revolution wound up becoming an elite rule over the masses.>The problem is that you've never read anything so you don't know what they argued about.I have studied Marx extensively. This isn't a debate about theory, it's a question regarding the practical outcomes of virtually every government that claimed to be marxist.
Nationalism is never justified. Militarism is never acceptable or right. Genocide is never the solution. Death only brings more death. There is always another way.
>>18577941>Also, separate question, did any Fascists believe in forming alliances with or giving critical support to communists?Mussolini tried to calm down tensions with the socialists in the Pact of Pacification but he faced near rebellions from his own blackshirt followers. Remember this was a time when socialists and fascists murdered each other at a fairly regular interval.>The way I see it, Fascists and Communists have more in common with each other than they do with the conservative or liberal establishment.You look at it that way because modern-day fascists and communists are really weak and larpy and defined more by what they're against than what they're for. Or what kind of alternative society they want to build. They're appropriating historical symbols from ideological movements from a hundred years ago, but it's hard to underestimate how alien those societies were compared to today. Like just in terms of the social base of these parties (which also had paramilitary wings), they could draw from labor-intensive industries and highly concentrated workforces, and also millions of pissed-off war veterans. A major port nowadays might employ 1,000-3,000 people (while being orders of magnitude more productive) because it has been automated and containerized, while a similar port in the early 20th century had 10,000-30,000 workers. There was no internet or TV. People socialized IRL and you could get pretty radical groups (like anarchists, Bolshevik-Leninists etc.) reach relatively large numbers of people with newspapers and political pamphlets.https://youtu.be/yP91x_-bxm0
Or just how fucking fanatical these groups were back then
>>18577941>> Also, separate question, did any Fascists believe in forming alliances with or giving critical support to communists? The way I see it, Fascists and Communists have more in common with each other than they do with the conservative or liberal establishment.Donetsk from 2014 to 2026 if you allow that. It's pretty much swastika tattooed Hitlerites and neoStalinsts fighting to drive away liberals backed by the EU with marginal groups of NeoNazis.
>>18577997>The problem is that you've never read anything so you don't know what they argued about. That would require either reading about history to know what they argued about or reading theory to know what Marxism is really about.I do, its a dogmatic religion
>>18577941>You could argue that China today is basically a corporatist state.It's the opposite of that, corporations in China have no political power, they are subordinated to the Party and they need to obey it, there are communist cells inside corporations in China making sure they follow the political directives of the Party. Fascism was the opposite, it was a movement of rightoid thugs financed and supported by industrialists to preserve their class interests against the socialists who were getting too popular and politically relevant at the time
>>18578209>It's the opposite of that, corporations in China have no political power, they are subordinated to the Party and they need to obey it, there are communist cells inside corporations in China making sure they follow the political directives of the Party.Corporatism doesn't mean the state is ruled by corporations, it's a specific form of national syndicalism created by Fascist Italy in which workers, employers, and managers are all part of syndicates or corporations where they take whatever issues or disputes they may have to the state and the state mediates between them to find a solution. In theory corporatism was meant to bring corporations under the direction and the subordination of the state.
>>18577941Mussolini praised Stalin for transforming soviet communism into slavic fascism
>>18578209>Fascism was the opposite, it was a movement of rightoid thugs financed and supported by industrialists to preserve their class interests against the socialists who were getting too popular and politically relevant at the timeLiterally the opposite but okayhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=ytsqWlYucQAhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=noXaaQ7VQeIhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=XjNZkbWuh9khttps://youtube.com/watch?v=DYMh_6GvziA
>>18578059The thing about those neoStalinist guys is that Russian behavior in general is just insanely broken in some weird way, so the communists there are really right-wing national conservatives not just in practice but in theory. Like what they really mean by communism is order, no welfare, no migrants, insane corruption (so you can steal more than you can now), plus subsidized heavy industries (not even really government owned, just subsidized) articulated through kitschy simulacra, like Elvis impersonators from the 1950s, while also being incapable of doing basic stuff. They basically just want to make Russia more based (i.e. retarded).https://youtu.be/q_ajbHHcwrQ
>>18577941>fascistic type policiesSuch as?
>>18578300They are literally listed in the next fucking sentence
>>18577941>nationalistic, militaristic, imperialist, and supporting class collaboration plus private enterprise subordinated to state interests.None of those are specifically Fascist, they're true of every monarchy or chieftain fiefdomThen again, if we strip away all the disingenious polisci bullshit about what fascism is supposed to be, what it really is is first stage of resurrecting hereditary monarchy, which would without a doubt be the end result as surely as Caesar led to the empire
>>18577997>They both can work for their aim is to generate market through industrialism.NS doesn't actually achieve this from what I've seen. It seems like the fascist/NS line is just that you can magical thinking your way into a prosperous economy by uh...concentrating wealth only into the hands of citizens while relying on the "industrious" nature of your people to beat out the global market. But in practice there isn't (typically) enough wealth in the hands of immigrants to reasonably sustain a country through confiscating their wealth, and once you do it one time you'll have no immigrants left to exploit.at least the Marxists have a coherent idea of how to build productive forces long-term as seen with Dengism being a massive success in China and lifting a billion people out of poverty. there aren't really any similar examples of fascist states prospering without relying on foreign handouts(Chile, Spain) or straight up war economy(Germany, Italy). the economic gains of fascism historically are purely temporary as they loot the lower classes and then get caught with their pants down 5-10 years down the line when there's no longer anything left to loot and no productive forces have been built.
