Is there actually any sensible explanation for why the neanderthals went extinct other than that they were wiped out in a race war like many groups in known history?
>>18583820>Is there actually any sensible explanation for why the neanderthals went extinct other than that they were wiped out in a race war like many groups in known history?Yes - Toba eruption 74,000 years ago or disease epidemics
>>18583820The fact that every other Human species went extinct around the same time went extinct, including the ones who had no contact with Sapiens, and that Sapiens itself was almost wiped out in that same time period. While Toba was not the cause (the extinctions happened over too large a timeframe) there was obviously some kind of worldwide climate fuckery going on.
>>18583841>>18583849Toba is too early. There is sone evidence for a catastrophic disruption right before the last glacial maximum. Perhaos there was a relatively advanced civilization back then that perished in a self inflicted apocalypse.
>>18583820Yes, and the more supported hypothesis is that low genetic diversity and interbreeding with homo sapiens ultimately led to the disappearance of the neanderthals as a distinct species. One factor to consider is that neanderthals developed faster than homo sapiens (as seen through study of neanderthal fetuses, infants, and toddlers), and this accelerated development would've likely appeared in the hybrids. Based on genetic evidence, we know that hybrid offspring primarily arose from male neanderthal and female sapiens parents. These factors in mind, we can add the social aspect. For the sapiens society, the hybrid appears to be growing at a faster rate, and could be seen as a healthy and productive member of the group. For the neanderthal society, this hybrid would be growing slower and could be seen as an unhealthy or burdensome child that might not be worth the effort to raise. From what we know about neanderthal communities, they lived in small and isolated groups made up of a couple of families at most. Sapiens communities were often made up of about a dozen or more families which were mobile and interacted with other groups frequently. Assuming hybrids were welcomed into their communities, this would mean the hybrids which lived in sapiens communities would meet far more sapiens, while the hybrids living in neanderthal communities would likely not meet many more neanderthals than were in their local community. This genetic imbalance ultimately lead to neanderthal genes gradually becoming more and more diluted over the generations with the species eventually no longer being distinct from sapiens.
They didn't really go extinct at all.Sapiens sapiens just outnumbered them 20 to 1 at time of last contact circa 40000 YBP.So when they interbred at scale they eventually just got mixed out. Couple that with the effect of genetic drift over many generations and you have the admixture proportions you see among Eurasians today.Basically they're just another subspecies of sapiens, like we are. Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.Regardless, by 40000 YBP Neanderthals were already hybridized because of previous admixture events.Somewhere around 200000 YBP a Neanderthal male took a Sapiens female to wife, and her mtDNA lineage would eventually dominate among the Neanderthals because their female progeny were extra fecund for whatever reason.
>>18583820MARCH OF THE TITANS
>>18584222Most of your post is good, but I disagree here.>neanderthals developed faster than homo sapiens (as seen through study of neanderthal fetuses, infants, and toddlers)I personally doubt this is true.But I've never considered the possibility before.Speaking frankly though, if you look at populations alive today who have significant Neanderthal admixture versus those who do not it's clear that those who don't actually have children who physically develop faster compared to those who do.I was under the assumption that the reason for low Neanderthal population size compared to Sapiens was because they had higher maternal mortality due to their larger skulls.And because it took relatively longer for them to reach sexual maturity.Maybe I'm just wrong about that though.
>>18584259https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41990743/
>>18583841>>18583849Politically correct nonsense, academic is always trying to pin the blame for literally everything on "climate change!" when it was in fact just humans going on a genocidal chimpout.
>>18583820>brings a cluv to a spear fightTactical rigidity led to their extinction and their women being bred by Cro-Magnon AlphaChads Ranged > meelee
>>18583820Genetic assimilation and Interbreedinghttps://art.torvergata.it/handle/2108/438603>All people with ancestry outside of Africa carry 1% to 4% Neanderthal DNA in their genomes todayThe Homo sapiens who arrived to where the Neanderthals lived found someone else who was human so they decided to breed with them.
>>18583820A typical Neanderthal man had a bigger brain and was twice times stronger than puny homo sapiens
>>18583820They aren't extinct. They are part of our genome, meaning we are all neanderthals to a degree (except for some africans).It's like saying the Aztec went extinct, even though their genome makes up a large percentage of the Mexican DNA. They just stopped being a distinct population group due to interbreeding with other groups.
>>18583820Ancient Antisemitism for no reason whatsoever
>>18585430Those caves were promised to us 100 thousand years ago!
>>18585371>The Homo sapiens who arrived to where the Neanderthals lived found someone else who was human so they decided to breed with them.No, violent cannibalistic Neanderthals almost genocided archaic humans, until our greater intelligence eventually turned the tables on them. What interbreeding occurred was exclusively Neanderthal males raping human females who managed to escape before being eaten.
>>18583820Apparently they couldn't function in bigger tribes.I forget the specific numbers, but where as HOMO sapiens could communicate better for maanouvers like intricate hunting system relying on large numbers, and other larger group projects Neanderthals couldn't get above a certain number to expand to the proper tribe.I think this was certainly a factor as to them being outcompeted.
Look at japan, ainu were half of the population and now they are going extinct.
>>18586637>ainu were half of the populationThere is no real indication Ainu ever spread past northern Honshu. Jomon were the original inhabitants of Honshu and the other southern islands and vastly outnumbered the Ainu population of Hokkaido and northern Honshu.
Look at white people. They have babies below reproduction rate for a while now.Maybe the Neanderthals had cave-feminism and cave-inflation.
put too many pts into STR and CON and not enough into CHA
>>18583820Climate change
>>18583820Neanderthals lived twice as long as humans currently have, they were around for 500,000 years and were suffering a great decline due to climate change fucking with their food sources and killing them with flooding and so on. When they met with humans we intermixed and there were more of us then there were of them. So if there's 1 Neanderthal to every 2 humans they have a mutt baby and then that mutt baby has a kid with a human and it turns into a 1/4th baby and so on until we get to modern day. We just mixed with them. There for sure was conflict but it wasn't like we wiped them out in a mega war or anything.
>>18587905Around 100,000 years ago Neanderthal YDNA was completely replaced by human YDNA. Nobody ever seems to mention this. The Neanderthals from 500,000 - 100,000 years ago were just that, probably extremely primitive face and more monstrous. The Neanderthals from 100,000 to 40,000 years ago were half breeds on the PATERNAL side. They lost because miscengation probably led to some genetic drift that reduced their birth rates.How did human YDNA replace all Neanderthal YDNA very early? Either humans killed Neanderthal males and raped their women or more likely they took in some human males and they were more sexually desirable and their male spawn kept the more human facial features. So they weren’t really half breeds but something like mostly Neanderthal autosomally but the minor human dna was entirely mostly male and male humans looked attractive to Neanderthal women. Something like that.
They assimilated they had a much smaller population even though homo sapiens women preferred them
>>18583820They interbred. Look up Denisova cave in southern Siberia in Russia. In there they found the bone remains of a young girl who lived around 90,000 years ago. Genetic analysis revealed she was a Neanderthal-Denisovan hybrid. Her mother was a Neanderthal, and her father was a Denisovan.
>>18583820It's the opposite, there is 0 evidence of violence between Sapiens and Neanderthal. The closest thing archeologists found was some Neanderthal bones with cut marks, broken skulls etc. Which could have been done by other Neanderthals, and may not even have been a result of violence, just ritual defleshing or starving people cannibalizing the dead.The Neanderthal genocide narrative is just modern people self-flagillating about muh sinful human nature.
sapiens sapiens outfucked them and neandercels depended on big game and as climate changed the species they depended on went extinct.
>>18585417True, but they couldn't throw well due to low center of mass. Throwing spears were really what made Sapiens the dominant specieses.Neanderthals also probably didn't figure out sewing so they couldn't make as warm clothes as Sapiens.
>>18588769They literally did, Denisovans prove this.Denisovans had literal drills ffs.Needles are really fucking archaic actually.
