Muhammed was a superstitious primitive convinced that spirits, curses, and witchcraft were all real and serious problems. There’s even an incident where he claimed that some guy allegedly cursed him (https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5765).The perfect example of Muhammed’s superstition is his belief in djinn. I find it funny that he decided Arab pagans were wrong about everything EXCEPT for… the desert spirits which are allegedly a sentient parallel species with humanity yet are localized to Arabia and conveniently stopped existing when cameras were invented. Muhammed even claimed that djinn interact with the physical world all the time, steal children at night, and could be seen and identified, so tell me why there is exactly zero evidence of djinn doing the things Muhammed claimed they could?You cannot simply handwave djinn as an allegory because>Muhammed and his companions believed in the literal existence of djinn.>70-80% of Muslims today also believe in the existence of djinn.
>>18598821I slaughtered a bunch of Muslims with this in a live Discord debate, everyone who engages with them should study up on this and use it. They can't make things up about Arabic like they usually do here since it's crystal-clear, and it gives you something objectively false about the world that we can definitively disprove. As long as you don't let them do the Muslim Shuffle or whataboutism, on this they lose and they lose hard.
>>18598821I think the fact that mohammed decided to continue the pagan practice of praying to the rock in the cube is more damning than the djinn thing.Literally millions of muslims even make a journey to go swirl around the cube and pray to the stone inside it, trying to get close enough to touch and kiss it. Which was a pre-islamic pagan practice mohammed decided to keep in his religion. And they have to pray towards this stone no matter where they are in the world. Yet they're supposedly against idol worship. It's insanity.
>>18598821This isn't really a gotcha, Hebrew mythology also believes in a type of jhinn.
>>18598841Did you know that multiple things can be false at the same time?
>>18598832To be fair the Kharijites and the Qarmatians wanted to do away with that, and some Wahhabis also would but it brings in too much money in plus the other sects would chimp out.
>>18598821What does it 'disprove'? They are creatures of God, like angels or humans. Everyone who believes in God is superstitious, so that's not really anything either. Im not seeing anything of brilliance or consequence here op.
>the desert spirits which are allegedly a sentient parallel species with humanity yet are localized to Arabia and conveniently stopped existing when cameras were invented.For the first it's stated in Islamic lore that there was a massive kill-off of Jinn before humans came into the picture. For the second, bro, their whole shtick is being imperceptible plus there are plenty of good reasons to hide themselves from mankind.
If the Jinn revealed themselves to mankind would you become a Muslim?
>spirits, curses, and witchcraft were all realAnon, these things are all real... Mark 5: 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.Genesis 3: 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.1 Chronicles 10: 13 Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, 14 and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.
>>18598945It's true. My "autistic" son is actually possessed by a demon that refuses to leave his soul. I've consulted priests and witch doctors, but they haven't been able to exorcise the demon. I think this is a curse for my abuela's sins, I don't care what the so-called "doctor" says, that faggot believes in "science" which is demonic!
>>18598910Djinn are said to interact with the physical world all the time, Muhammed even ascribed specific actions to them. If this were the case, then there should be massive evidence of their existence, especially in non-Muslim countries since they don’t take the anti-djinn precautions Muhammed recommended.But djinn are completely absent. There is no recorded case of djinn stealing children.
>>18599361>djinn stealing childrenSource from hadith?
>>18598841Which Jewish mythology believes in them? >>18599340>ignoring "science" vaccines caused autism
If a tree told me djinni existed I'd convert to Islam.
>>18599484From Bukhari himself, https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3316:"The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Cover your utensils and tie your water skins, and close your doors and keep your children close to you at night, as the Jinns spread out at such time and snatch things away."Others say the same such as https://sunnah.com/abudawud:3733 which says "Gather your children when darkness spreads, or in the evening (according to Musaddad), for the jinn are abroad and seize them."
>>18599587>"science" vaccinesAs opposed to religious vaccines?
>>18599647Yes like the halal ones.
>>18599644SheikhGPT says that's not what it means. Can you provide its meaning by the big scholars like ibn hajar and al nawawi? They have commentary books on muslim and bukhari
>>18599691And what do you posit it means?
>>18599701I don't take hadiths at face value, been burnt this way before. i'd like to hear the big scholars explain. The commentary books should be available online. I think ibn hajars is called fath al bari?
>>18599718Hadith commentaries available online in English seem a bit fragmentary, but what I can find doesn't bode well for attempts to downplay what Muhammad says about how active Jinn are.For example at https://hadeethenc.com/en/browse/hadith/10568 it says "Abu Mūsa (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The death of my Ummah is by stabbing and the plague." It was said: "O Messenger of Allah, as for stabbing, we know it, but what is the plague?" He said: "Jabbing by your enemies from among the Jinn. In both cases, there are martyrs."In other words, according to this hadith Jinn genuinely kill people. The commentary says:"the plague, which causes widespread and collective death caused by the Muslims' enemies from among the non-Muslim Jinn, by jabbing them".So it appears to take this fully literally. Other than that, I really can't find many substantive commentaries in English right now that comment on Jinn hadith. Do you see many?
>>18598821Tbqh one of the biggest debate advantages that Christianity has over the other Abrahamic religions is just the total lack of wacky or fucked up shit in the New Testament.Weirdest thing I can think of is Jesus cursing a fig tree. There’s nothing like Al-Zutt or a bear slaughtering children for making fun of a bald guy.
>>18599776i don't care about this. SheikhGPT told me this is nothing new. i want to know about the hadith we had seen before this>do you see many?al nawawi is big scholar for sahih muslim and ibn hajar is big scholar for sahih bukhari. fatih al bari should be available online. please find it, I want to know what they say
>>18599786>Weirdest thing I can think of is Jesus cursing a fig treethat's jesus cursing the jews. one of the many curses
>>18599340John 9: 1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
>>18598821Checkmate Jews and Japanese believe in jinns
Religious people believe in demons and other supernatural beings? Holy shit dude, call the presses
>>18600686>Islam thread>Religious people Why is there always deflection to other religions in Islam threads?
>>18601263Because they are all the same shit, with minor differences?Are you saying that Christians and Jews DON'T also believe in demons and angels?
>>18601273>keeps deflecting from Islam>minor differences
>>18598821Meanwhile, every Christian diocese hasba specialist priest in standby in case they need to fight demons.
Both angels and jinn are spirits. The only difference is that angels are celestial spirits and the jinn are terresterial spirits
>>18601263It's insane. Muslims WILL NOT talk about their religion. They always insist on deflecting and changing the subject to other religions whenever they can.I think it's because on some level they see that they have by far the most intellectually unsophisticated religion which is essentially indefensible under serious examination
>>18602588One is made of light and the other fire. Like people are made of mud. >>18602725It is hard to defend especially when digging into the hadiths
>>18602725It's because christianity is so retarded forcing self-proclaimed christians to read it makes them seethe. A real glass houses vibe
>>18602747Watch the midwit will claim whatabousim to an insult
>>18602747OP said zero (0) things about Christianity. Did you know that it's possible for both Christianity and Islam to be false at the same time?
>>18602832After too many cousin marriages Muslims have lost the capacity for abstract thought on this level. They cannot think "maybe none of the religions are true and neither is atheism, maybe it's some sort of vague deism".
>>18602832>both Christianity and Islam to be false at the same time?Yeah, but he is most certainly a christian. You can always spot that post-baptismal demonic possession, coupled with a venomous contempt for people, hiding behind an insincere perfunctory smile. It's that trademark that gives me the creeps.
>>18602872Are you a Muslim?
>>18602873would it change my criticism? Did you know it's possible for both blah blah blah
>>18602874Yes. If you are a Muslim you serve as Exhibit A of Muslims being incapable of defending their religion, only attacking others. Their position cannot stand on its own.
>>18602878please see Exhibit B >>18602872
A religion which lacks mythical creatures lacks sovl
>>18602893A religion which has them lacks truth
>>18602884Have you ever genuinely given thought to the notion that no religion today is true? Not necessarily atheism being true, just none of the religions being correct either.
>>18602903>Not necessarily atheism being true, just none of the religions being correct either.organized or institutional dogmatic religions would be how you'd frame it, bozodidn't need 4 lines
>>18602920Have you ever given serious thought to the issue? If so, why do you choose to believe Muhammad was the universe's special messenger instead?
>>18602924Aaaand there it is. Now it has been promoted to Exhibit A >>18602872
>>18602927And apparently you will talk about Christianity and only Christianity, refusing to even discuss the possibility of Deism.
>>18598821Al-Zutt weren't evil djinns or Africans. Nazis are spreading lies about our Prophet (PBUH). He was, in fact, servicing superior Aryan cocks.
>>18602931Convince me of it. go ahead.
>>18602950I'm inquiring about why you accept Muhammad as the universe's messenger instead of it. This thread clearly shows he is not as he had a Medieval understanding of the universe, one we know today to be incorrect.If one accepts general arguments for theism but is not persuaded by arguments for any specific religion, then Deism is the result.
>>18599846why don't you go and check?
>>18601273christians and jews are also retarded.there. now, can we go back to the question of "where are the jinns"?
>>18602931deism is for the weak-minded who cannot fully give up abrahamism. without a childhood spent in an abrahamic religious culture no one would even have come up with the idea.
>>18598821Magic hasn't disappeared. It's very much a real thing.If a couple that previously had no issues suddenly can't stand each other, that's a sign of magic. Just because it's not observable to the eye doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't true. Many things the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) said would happen hadn't been seen, and yet, they're happening now.From them are:>A Sign that the Last Hour is near is that the barefoot Arabs would compete in the building of tall buildings. Burj Khalifah, built in Dubai, is the tallest skyscraper in the world, and Saudi Arabia intends on besting it, both are Arab countries.>Another Sign that the Last Hour is near is that the Arab Peninsula will become green again, and travel to anywhere in Saudi Arabia, and that's exactly what's happening. Where the was barren land, greenery is growing again.>Another Sign that the Last Hour is near is that murder and fornication will become widespread and common, and look at the world today: even children participate in killing and fornication happens all too often.>Another Sign that the Last Hour is near is that the Jews will gather in Palestine. The Jews have been trying to get into Palestine for a very long time now, clearing out the Palestinians is just making a way for that to happen.All of these matters are from the Unseen. This doesn't mean Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) had knowledge of the Unseen, but Alalh had revealed to him some of them. And we have clear, undeniable proof of the things that he (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) have said were true.
>>18602872>most certainly a christian.Wait aren't the jews supposed to be Islam's big bad guys? Final hour and all that. Why are muslims always attacking Christians first? >>18603003>Doesn't know about deism from non-christian culturesLurk more >>18603013>looks at satellite photosLong way to go for that prophecy.
>>18603473>Why are muslims always attacking Christians first?We are evil people made by jesus to test the love of their hearts. lucifers' kincan they love their enemies? doesn't seem that way.
>>18603013>A Sign that the Last Hour is near is that the barefoot Arabs would compete in the building of tall buildings.Meds. Now.
