Feel free to explore periods from the Neolithic to the Middle Ages. Yeavering, the Anglo-Saxon royal palace, located in Northumberland, England. The long building was the social and political center, used for banquets, assemblies, and receptions by the King of Northumbria.
>>18601131
>>18601134https://exarc.net/issue-2015-2/ea/yeavering-reconsidered
>>18601131An interesting thread! Finally, fuck I was browsing the internet the other day and found some very interesting Celtic houses. I'll post some photos.
>>18601152And let me correct myself, it's not a house but a fort, apparently in the Alps.
>>18601159Very interesting, thank you for participating. I'm quite interested in Celtic fortresses this one vaguely reminded me of Some More Iron Age Celtic Fortresses of the Southern Alpes-Maritimes. Are they related?
>>18601169Probably
Reconstruction of a Bronze Age village Southern Corsica.
>>18601178What a shame, LOL Even in the middle of the Bronze Age, the Indus Valley in India and Pakistan already had huge villages of stone and brick, and these guys were living like country bumpkins in those ugly houses LOL
>>18601181This isn't the place for you. Get out of here. Are you going to start interrupting my thread because your personal problem with Europeans got the better of you?
>>18601181What the hell are you talking about, weirdo? Go worship a cow or something
Medieval West Slavic gords fortified settlements
>>18601131Germanic Settlement during the Iron Age: see how Germanics were already present in alot of the Areas the Sami would later inhabit
>>18601211Nice map, sources please?
>>18601213https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Distribution-map-of-the-most-apparent-Later-Fennoscandian-Iron-Age-material-indicators_fig18_353451280
Bell Beaker village at Silchester, England just before Roman contact
Would you date this village to pre-Roman times or the Middle Ages? What markers would identify it?
>>18601292>>18601298kino.
>>18601292its celtic or bell beaker?>>18601298its late roman>>18601181?
>>18601292cute roofs
Los Millares, Southern Spain, c. 3000 to 2000 BCIt's estimated it had a population of around a thousand people
Castro do Zambujal, Portugal, c. 3000 to 1700 BCWhere the earliest Bell Beakers where found
>>18602929trendsetters! bet they didn't expect it to spread for a thousand years
>>18602937I really like their "Oculados" style figures with those big eyes, a motif prsent in Iberia from the Neolithic until the Iron Age.The archeologist that wrote this paper, Maria de Jesus Sanches, is based beyond belief: shits on revisionist feminist history, denies the Holocaust, smokes weed, downs a whole bottle of red wine at lunch everyday when she is excavating, and is one of the top authorities in Pre-Historic Art in the whole of the Iberian Peninsula. Archeologists are just built different in comparisson to nerdy ass historians.
>>18601131Is that a little theater that they built in the background? Very impressive for the time. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another medieval example of that kind of thing.
>>18601181HELLO SAAR
>>18602916>>18602929Based!!!
>>18602929>Bell Beakers its EEF
Pictish fortress
hillfort in Dorset as it may have appeared during the middle Iron Age
>>18603291Fucking massive
>>18603291>>18603282Not comparable to harrapan
how long does woodshit last? Is it more costly to maintain that brick/stoneshit?
>>18603318Depends on the climate, wood type, local pests etc. It can last for thousands of years in the right conditions. Modern Venice is standing on top of Late Roman wooden pillings that are sheltered from oxygen in the mud.
>>18603275Bell Beakers as in the actual inverted bell shaped beakersHaploautism fried your brain
>>18603350Its not bell beaker thoAnd they also originated in the Netherlands
>>18603369Post the studies dating Bell Beaker vessels earlier than those found at Castro do Zambujal, c. 2900 BCC'mom, I'll waitBut I know you wont because the earliest Bell Beaker vessels in the Netherlands are dated to c. 2700 BC
>>18603428>>18603369>>18603350The timeline is:Iberian EEFs create Bell Beaker style.The style spreads north to the Dutch Corded Ware folk without any genetic transmission.These Dutch CW people, who from then on will be known as Bell Beakers, are a little complicated genetically. They were a steppe dominated confederation, whose original founders were actually 75% steppe and only 25% EEF, meaning they brought a lot of steppe women with them when they entered Europe. But you can occasionally find Dutch Corded Ware samples with high WHG or EEF too, they seem to have been chill with locals joining in on the expansion.Then there is a reverse migration of the new Bell Beakers into Iberia, and this time the new Bell Beaker men completely replace the old men.The population then remains roughly constant, except for a little turnover at the time of the Urnfield Celtic expansion, until Roman contact.
>>18603428>>186034841/? Allow me to humiliate you so you'll stop spreading false and unfounded information on the internet. Let's start with the humiliation through archaeology, and then you'll apologize, right?The so-called "Dutch Model" of Van Der Waals, Glasbergen, and Lanting is the closest to the truth, not the Iberian model. It derives the Bell Beaker culture from single-grave corded pottery, specifically from the Bell Beaker variant with a protruding foot, found in the Netherlands and northwestern Germany.It is extremely unlikely, and only idiots like you believe today, that the Bell Beaker culture originated in the Iberian Peninsula, since ancient traces of this culture outside the Iberian Peninsula do not show Iberian Neolithic DNA. The following text is from the 2018 article by Olalde et al., "The Bell Beaker phenomenon and the genomic transformation of northwestern Europe">Conversely, the Neolithic related ancestry in Beaker-complex-associated individuals outside of Iberia was most closely related to central and northern European Neolithic populations with relatively high hunter-gatherer admixture (for example, Poland_LN, P = 0.18 and Sweden_MN, P = 0.25), and we could significantly exclude Iberian sources (P < 0.0104) (Fig. 2c). These results support mostly different origins for Beaker-complex associated individuals, withno discernible Iberia-related ancestry outside of Iberia.
>>186037052/? The following two excerpts are from page 31 of 47 of the 2021 article by archaeologist Völker Heyd, "Yamnaya, Corded Wares, and Bell Beakers on the Move": more recent research instead of the outdated rubbish you're spouting.>One could nevertheless imagine the Iberian ‘pioneers’ (one might also want to call them ‘missionaries’), bringing over the novel Beaker idea, are rather archaeologically and genetically invisible. They may not have been large in numbers.Heyd, one of the most ardent proponents of this hypothesis, seems to attribute Maritime-type pottery to pioneers or missionaries from the Iberian Peninsula, but he himself assumes that they were so rare that they became "archaeologically and genetically invisible." From an archaeological point of view, this implies that they were archaeologically and genetically invisible because they did not exist. Maritime-type pottery developed from Corded Ware, originating in Holland/northwest Germany, and spread westward from there. Van der Waals, Glasbergen, and Lanting demonstrated this very well. Their hypothesis is highly visible in both archaeology and genetics. Let's go further.It is clear to observe how the undecorated bands on the Corded Ware pots gradually widened, culminating in the bell-shaped cup of the maritime era, on the right (pic related)
>>18601142I don't get the walled section.
>>186037173/?You asked me for literature, so here we are. This excerpt is from page 470 of "Corded Ware from East to West">The funeral rites were characterized by the presence of flat graves as well as barrows, in which according to the Corded Ware custom, only one individual was laid. The Protruding Foot Beaker culture is also important because in 1955 Johannes D. van der Waals and Willem Glasbergen were able to demonstrate stylistic links that its beakers shared with the Bell Beakers. This became a basis for one of the main models for the genesis of the Bell Beakers called the “Dutch Model.”From Beaker Types and their Distribution in the Netherlands page 16>Where is the origin of the Dutch Beakers with protruding foot to be sought? Sangmeister has discussed the distribution of this Beaker class - hisWestdeutsche Becherguppe- in Western Germany and the Netherlands. There is undoubtedly a close affinity to the Central GermanSchnurkeramik[Corded Ware] culture, and it can be assumed that this latter culture represents the origin of sub-group Ia of the Dutch Beakers with protruding foot.There is no single set of artifacts from the Iberian Bell Beaker culture that constitutes the core of a widespread Iberian Bell Beaker culture from the Iberian Peninsula to other parts of EuropeThe ""Beaker people"" of the Spanish Model were not buried in a Beaker style before 2500 BC. They were not R1b-M269, they had no steppe ancestry, and physically they were Mediterranean with dolichocephalic skulls and gracile skeletons. In reality they were Iberian Neolithic farmers and were buried like them in collective tombs. Totally irrelevant.
>>186037454/?The Iberian model is not supported by genetics or archaeology. There is this article that deals specifically with this issue if you want to read it as well. https://www.jna.uni-kiel.de/index.php/jna/article/view/112>The hypothesis of an Iberian origin of the Bell Beaker has been advanced from the beginning of the 20th century on. For a time challenged by the assumption of a cradle located rather in the north-western part of continental Europe, it is currently making a comeback and is supported by most specialists of the Bell Beaker phenomenon. An examination of the conditions related to its construction demonstrates that its dominant position owes more to contingent causes such as the charismatic personalities of its creators and their study areas than to an objective analysis of the archaeological record. A small exercise of archaeology-fiction in which we will trace back the history of research based on the assumption of a central-European origin highlights the structural weakness and the dogmatic character of the hypothesis of the Iberian cradle.The Transformation of Europe in the Third Millennium BC: the example of ‘Le Petit-Chasseur I + III page 187>There are no wrist-guards found with early Beaker graves in northern Italy, southern France, or the early maritime beaker contexts in Iberia (see chapter 9.3).Only in the Bell Beaker East Group do they occur in a few early graves (Heyd 2001). Otherwise, we see many of them from the middle Bell Beaker period onwards, spreading widely in the EBA to Italy, France and Spain.
>>186037585/5. Now I would like to argue about archaeogenetic issues that, again, did not corroborate the Iberian model, but did corroborate the Dutch model.The point here is that Iberian Bell Beaker women can’t explain the mtDNA H in Bell Beaker outside Iberia, because those groups have no Iberian autosomal DNA. You can’t pass on mtDNA without also passing on autosomal DNA. the mtDNA H likely came from elsewhere, like Globular Amphora, which had lots of it. And genetically, the Neolithic farmer ancestry in Bell Beaker matches Poland_LN better than Iberia, according to Olalde et al. There's also long segments in common between GAC and CW and also between GAC and BB.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-023-01582-w 2026 study "Lasting Lower Rhine–Meuse Forager Ancestry Shaped Bell Beaker Expansion" The conclusion is useful because Olalde showed how the Dutch populations of the Bell Beaker culture were formed through the fusion of approximately 82–87% ancestry related to migrants associated with the CWC and 13–18% ancestry from the local population of the Western TRB (Ertebølle HG). No Iberian ancestry again. This is a serious problem for the Iberian theory.>Bell Beaker in the Netherlands can be understood as a synthesis between incoming Single Grave/Corded Ware communities and a surviving TRB-West.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10111-8According to Olalde et al: First, mtDNA H is not exclusive to the Iberian Peninsula, nor was it dominant in the Beakers there. In fact, Iberian Beakers had more K1 and U5b than H. Second, there was no genetic influx from southwestern Europe associated with the Bell Beaker, because outside of Iberia there is no Iberian Neolithic autosomal DNA. Third, the Bell Beaker did not originate in Portugal.
>>18603758>>18603745>>18603717>>18603705Why are you taking this so personally, anon?
>>18603869I apologize if I seemed that way, but this specific user, I've had long debates with him here on this very topic, and the individual refuses to abandon his favorite theory even when there's no longer a solid basis for it. You can search for "Iberian Bell Beaker" on desuarchive.org and see that he even uses racial bait on this topic. Therefore, I may have gone a little overboard, and I apologize to the OP for going off-topic like this, but this user is a troll. And for anyone curious about what the Bell Beaker settlements were actually like, I can contribute to the thread with this information.>>18601131
>>18603916Unfortunately, I couldn't find any 3D reconstructions or drawings of these settlements, Bell Beaker culture settlements are notoriously difficult to find, but apparently they were characterized by ephemeral dwellings, scattered post holes, and pits. Long rectangular houses, mostly common in northern and central Europe (like the example of Heiloo in the Netherlands), supported by internal wooden posts arranged in rows, with thatched roofs and wattle-and-daub walls. something like that is possible not very different from what already existed in the region since the Neolithic and CwC
>>18603933Imagine the smell of sweaty butts and manure that must have been in the houses of those Aryan nobles, lmao, what an ugly house.
>>18603916>>18603933none of your copy-and-paste bullshit sperging changes the fact that the Portuguese Bell Beakers have securely dated, complete archaeological package Maritime Beaker style hundreds of years before the Dutch. That was the only claim that was made, and you couldn't refute it. You are the troll here.You also have the same style as the idiot from yesterday who didn't know that Corded Ware isn't subclade Z2013 and thus isn't the direct paternal descendant of Yamnaya
>>18603938Why are you provoking people?
>>18603963>none of your copy-and-paste bullshitI accept your concession. Thanks
>>18603963The Iberian model has been refuted. Cry more, Hernan.
>>18603973Because this imbecile is jealous of anything European. Look above, when the other anonymous person posted a Bronze Age village, the idiot started talking about Harrapan.
>>18603977>>18603987HAHAHA YOU DUMB FAGGOT, IF YOU HAD BOTHERED TO READ THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED YOURSELF,>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10111-8YOU WOULD SEE IT SAYS>the earliest appearance of BB cultural material has been located in IberiaNICE JOB MORON
>>18603993Nobody is envious of these houses, my friend, don't be fooled.
The next time you dump a copypasta that derails the thread, make sure to leave out the links that directly refute your argument.
>>18601142I feel like we're missing something, this just doesn't make any logical sense to me.
>>18601181saaaar please, your delusional gloating is embarrassing to see.
>>18602916What's the purpose of the little walled in pond+huts in back? Chieftain's harem?
>>18603996You imbecile troll, I told you you would be humiliated and you will be humiliated again. I posted a ton of archaeological sources and now you're misinterpreting and lying about the article? Let's shut your mouth again, you sewer rat.The article actually refutes the Iberian origin of the Bell Beaker Culture expansion. the study demonstrates that Lower Rhine-Meuse populations were primarily responsible for genetic replacement in Great Britain, contrasting with Iberian models.
>>18604029
>>18604034Now, for everyone to see how dishonest this damn troll is, here's the part he ignored.Lol You should therefore apologize for wasting my time. This article is not an archaeological article, but one that focuses purely on genetics, and the qpAdm models used by the authors ****refute**** the Iberian model and, as I showed above, are also archaeologically flawed>>18603758>>18603745>>18603717Its over
>>18604029>>18604034so where was the earliest appearance of Bell Beaker cultural material?
I also found it funny that this rat didn't bother to check even the sources used by the authors or my provided sources. If he had at least bothered to read them, he would have noticed that the bibliography cited by the authors, ironically, includes one of the articles I cited before that refuted the Iberian model...lol>>18603758What's the price of your favorite theory being false, you disgusting troll? Don't you dare answer me anymore, you've been humiliated several times today. Those threads of yours with racist bait show that you're unbalanced.
>>18603758>>18603804This guy went beyond autism, the madman combined haploautism and archaeology and a bunch of booklets. It's a shame that women won't want to reproduce with you, anon.
>>18604059What's with nationalists and y chromosome haplogroups
>>18603996Why do you think everyone who disagrees with you is the same person? lol The Spanish sun must be frying your pseudo-MENA brain lol
>>18604059>womenWhat's the relevance of that? I can't think of any.
>>18604063haplogroups are actually an excellent way to understand prehistory>>18604064>>18604057The Dutch Bell Beakers who conquered Iberia and Britain and raped all the women were genetically Corded Ware but were culturally influenced by the original Iberian EEF Bell Beakers. It was a cultural synthesis of Single Grave and Iberian Maritime Beaker. Like how swastikas only appear in Iron Age Germany after Germans started serving in the Roman military and came into contact with it.Try grasping a more complicated theory of prehistory other than genocide and wholesale cultural annihilation.
I didn't know Spanish people had their own we wuzin theory
As expected, there were no reasonable counter-arguments and not a single source cited, therefore we can conclude that: 1) the Iberian Beakers had more K1 and U5b than H. 2) there was no genetic influx from southwestern Europe associated with the Bell Beaker, because outside of Iberia there is no Iberian Neolithic autosomal DNA. 3) the Bell Beaker did not originate in Portugal.Another thing I didn't mention earlier is that the Kromsdorf bell-shaped vessel samples, one R1b-M269 and the other R1b-M343, were actually both xU106, and this is important because these results were published in 2012, when ancient DNA tests were still quite unstable and vague and the resolution wasn't very high. They purposefully emphasized U106 because of the origin of the samples, and the researchers expected them to be R1b-U106.
>>18604079>>18604094the people who took these samples would agree that BB cultural material has been located in Iberia. If you disagree, why not get Nature to publish a correction?
>>18604094>>18604079Only schizophrenic Iberians believe in this theory at this point. >>18604072No, Hernan There's no such thing as a "bell beaker EEF," you're projecting your fantasy here they were Corded Ware.
>>18604098*the earliest BB cultural material has been located in Iberia.They would also agree that Corded Ware is almost never Z2103 and thus not paternally directly descended from Yamnaya, but from a common ancestor, Sredny Stog.
>>18604101>There's no such thing as a "bell beaker EEF," you're projecting your fantasy here they were Corded Ware.you should get Nature to issue a correction on this >>18603996 article then
I literally had the timeline correct here >>18603484before any of your sperging out began, and you still haven't grasped the difference between art and genes.Japanese people draw their characters with wide eyes and blonde hair without any genetic transmission.
>>18604098>>18604102Why are you trolling the thread? He literally showed evidence that this isn't accurate and the oldest traditions are in the Netherlands, why are you doing this?
>>18604111>He literally showed evidence that this isn't accurate and the oldest traditions are in the Netherlandsno he didn't he showed that the earliest Maritime Beaker cultural material has been located in Iberia, he even linked the Nature article!
it's amazing that geneticists have proven Gustav Kossina right, the people of the Neolithic Northern Europe urheimat really did conquer the rest of the world and create Persia, Rome, the Aryans, the British Empire, France, and Germany.And yet you still find people sperging out at the idea that, during these conquests, some of them might have gotten a style of pottery from Iberia.We know they raped the GAC women and raised the mutt offspring. Why is it any less believable that they were influenced by Iberian EEF (non-GAC) pottery?Wouldn't it be less believable that they took EEF women and that those women never had any influence on pottery, something a woman could probably do?
>>18604113I'm following this thread that You idiots fucked up and you're the only one clinging to it like a woman ovulating Stop trolling He demonstrated several times that apparently the archaeological consensus is that these traditions are derived from the CWC and the OG bell beakers originated in the Netherlandsfrom what i understand you manipulated the article, right? You cut out the inconvenient part.
>>18604121you're not fooling anyone, you're still the same guy.
>>18604113Gigakek no, they don't say that why are lying like that, Hernan? We already understand that your narcissism is so great that it leads you to pretend to be an we wuz Bell Beaker culture to the point of inventing stories that only dead Moorberian archaeologists would believe. Larp
This thread has officially been ruined by autism. Im sorry OP I thought the premise was cool
>>18604125You are talking to different people.
>>18604138Iberians ... Always
>>18604131>>18604142>>18604145Tell Nature to issue a correction on this article, ASAP! Much work to be done herehttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10111-8
>The oldestradiocarbon dates associated with Beaker pottery are around 2750 BCE in Atlantic Iberiahttps://www.nature.com/articles/nature25738This article too! Wow we've got a lot of work to do boys.
>>18601131WE
We already know this, without a shadow of a doubt, that manipulating articles and ignoring entire paragraphs is a clear symptom of dementia and, apparently, paranoia. The Bell Beaker culture derived from the Corded Ware culture of single burials. We can know this, and we do know this. That's it. As categorically stated by the authors in the article. Spamming a line out of context from an article that wasn't archaeological in the first place is not an argument, especially when it's based on a flawed idea not supported by archaeologists, and even when the authors cited an archaeological article as a reference against the Iberian model. It's crystal clear that the Neolithic farming population of the Iberian Peninsula was not the origin of these brides. That's undeniable. Any pottery and flint originating from the Iberian Peninsula reached the Bell Beaker culture outside the Iberian Peninsula through trade, mainly after the Bell Beaker culture entered the Iberian Peninsula around 2400-2500 BC. The Bell Beaker culture did not originate in the Iberian Peninsula, not even as a "fashion" or "idea." It did not suddenly appear in "islands" of Europe, metaphorical or otherwise. It's not that mysterious.Also, regarding the supposedly Iberian maritime tradition, already refuted here before>>18603717 the Maritime-type pottery developed from Corded Ware.
My final response here is that spamming this article like a retard won't help you when you keep hiding important parts of the article and when you keep deliberately ignoring my posts and don't even realize how your own photo in the following lines supports the Dutch model. The authors are not focusing on archaeology and the source they cite precisely as the supposed Iberian origin (Superscript numbers 47. Like.., just check it) is "Jeunesse C The dogma of the Iberian origin of the Bell Beaker: an attempt at its deconstruction" which I literally posted above, and this article is actually against the Iberian model. (Lmao)archaeology has always found problems with these hypotheses because they are quite weak, it was presenting archaeological evidence that the bell beaker pottery, be it Maritime-type pottery and the AOC derived from the Corded Ware of the Rhine>>18604221>>18603717
Bonus And then you can take your sleeping pills.Their own source btw
>>18604288>>18604327>>18604151
18601181oohoohooh AHAHAHAH clikclak nignuknook
>>18603291>mfw I see Romans coming
why are haplofaggots like this?
