Six years have passed... six damned years since Niraj said he would publish the samples and his damned article, but to this day, absolutely nothing. Nothing. Just lies, madness, and Hindutva insanity. When the researchers involved gather the courage to publish their findings, we will have a clear picture. When will we have access to these samples? And how will we be sure that they will not contaminate the samples or manipulate them in some way? I have lost hope.
>>18613722Which racist claim are you hoping that these findings will demonstrate?
>>18613728Ops, there's no god but Vishnu btw
>>18613722Absolutely everything, I mean everything in India, is biased. I'm an amateur archaeology researcher, and it's simply exhausting trying to find sources on anything archaeological in this place. When they aren't outdated sources from the last century, the sources dealing with Bronze Age material cultures are very vague and extremely contradictory. It's a mess. And the same thing happens in Pakistan and elsewhere. Especially regarding dating, and there are no serious typological studies on any of these cultures. for any archaeogenetic study of sample extraction, a comprehensive topography of the site is necessary, but if we don't even have decent archaeological descriptions of these places, things get even worse. You will find outdated dates like 4000, 5000, even 6000 years for everything.Unfortunately, I'm forced to distrust Indian authors when it comes to archaeology. (Or, indeed, anything.)
>>18613722And why aren't the labs doing anything? He's hiding information that should be public. Why doesn't a Western lab confiscate these samples or something?>>18613747Just send European archaeologists to these places.
>>18613752The Archaeological Survey of India centralizes excavation permits, which obviously limits the work of researchers from outside the country to prioritize the official agenda. We have several examples, in fact more than usual, of falsification of archaeological data by Indian authors a well-known case is the supposed Indus Valley seals depicting horses or domestic horse bones.
>>18613728What is racist in the OP? The fact that it's critical of one of the most blatant, openly corrupt frauds in all of archaeogenetics?Why are Indians so racist that they immediately burst into tears the moment they have to think about White people being involved with their history? The insecurity is incredible.
>>18613722If independent international laboratories were to freely analyze the DNA of these Bronze Age populations, they could reinforce the thesis that there were invasions, oops! peaceful migrations of peoples from the Eurasian steppes to the stinking subcontinent. This is a nightmare because it would dismantle the nationalist discourse of "cultural and geographical purity" defended locally. They really believe they are the first civilization in the world too.
It's a good thing he's hiding the samples. Maybe now the dimwits who refuse to think for themselves will be forced to sit down and read all the interesting linguistic, archaeological, mythological, and anthropological arguments for a steppe urheimat.In fact we should withhold all evidence until everyone understands that a steppe origin is literally the only one that makes theoretical sense.
>>18613737>>18613759So is it some thing about proving that Indians are brown? We don't need DNA evidence for that.
>>18613794They dug up a skeleton from the time of the Indo-Aryan invasion of the Punjab and it was a blonde Europoid dude whose ancestors were born in Corded Ware Northern Europe so they had to throw it in the local dumpster (the Ganges River)
>>18613722Niraj Rai and the Archaeological Survey of India have concealed DNA reports from the Sinauli samples for over 7 years, and there is no news that they will release the sample. Rai inadvertently confirmed the authenticity of the leaked information by legally threatening the whistleblower "Rtam," who hasn't posted anything at all in a year.
I don't know if it's true, but what do you guys think?
>>18614456If these leaked samples are real, even with the low resolution, the question remains when the DNA from the steppes entered India. We already have ample evidence that the Indus Valley Civilization did not, in fact, have any (or no) significant presence of steppe DNA in the early/mature Harappan phase and that the Indo-Aryan migrations occurred during the late Harappan phase. these samples from Sinauli may provide further evidence that the first wave of Indo-Aryan migrations occurred around 1800 (+/- 200) BC and perhaps the Vedic peoples are a second migration, which occurred around 1600-1500 BC, as already accepted by several authors. See Mallory and David Reich.These early Indo-Europeans could be a direct extension of Andronovo, And then we have the migrations of the Vedic peoples, who were derived or related to Andronovo, but perhaps only after the division between Iranians and Indians that occurred later. I think this might align with some archaeological evidence we have in Balochistan and Pakistan of Andronovic material culture.
>>18614497Two migrations?
>>18614500Yes. Remember that this wouldn't be something particularly new for Indo-European invasions/migrations. Let's use Italy and Iberia as examples; both places had two Indo-European flows, the first being the arrival of the Bell Beakers and then a second migration associated with cultures related to the Urnfield complex, which would then form the Celts and Italics proper. Bell beakers could spoke some kind of proto-Italo-Celtic tho.But in Iberia, pre-Celtic Lusitanian survived. Could some now-lost pre-vedic-indo-European dialect also have survived in India?
>>18613763Better file a writ in high court against them for deliberately hiding the report from public which is of importance to common mass as a social religious matter as well as a matter of research for historians
>>18614456These lunatics have done this before just read about the problems Reich faced in accessing the samples and how his work was sabotaged. Reich and his team literally had to create a new term to use instead of "steppe," in this case "ancestral North Indian," just to avoid upsetting them.
>>18614475Yes, this is 100% true inasmuch as the Aryan Migration Theory (AMT) is true. Everything published outside of India points to it being true including genetics. You can literally test the genetics of modern Indians and their % steppe ancestry corresponds to caste with brahmins having the most.The background behind the claim "The AMT is real" is entirely plausible although it is impossible to vouch for the fact that the poster actually worked in a lab in Hyderabad and so forth, but the claim that AMT is real is as shocking as someone saying they went to Africa and discovered chimpanzees are real and not just something on TV. There is no point in inventing a story about being a biologist who goes on a safari in Africa just to say chimpanzees are real. Of course they're real.That this person heard "the institute is in cahoots with the government" is not surprising either. That sort of cozy relationship between a government and archaeologists is to be expected when AMT is so politically charged in India. They're so sensitive about it they have to say migration instead of invasion.Niraj Rai is an idiot who says blatantly false things on Twitter about the history of India and goes out of his way to silence people publicly for leaking his samples.
>>18614546>>18613759the basis is seething ethnic insecurity, combined with low intelligence and emotional instability.
>>18614546Yes, that makes sense, but isn't what they're doing a crime? Hiding archaeological material for religious and political reasons isn't a crime? Why isn't anyone doing anything?
>>18614562I have no idea what counts as crime in India. Keep in mind that it is 100% legal to operate scam call centers in India that spend all day trying to trick senile Westerners out of their retirement money. The Indian government does not care in the slightest how this sort of thing paints themselves as a nation of scammers and doesn't legislate against it. Any sensible government would ban all immigration and tourism from India and initiate trade embargos until they as a nation can learn to stop being scammers.
>>18614569In short? We will NEVER have these samples or any serious article on this subject. Indian chauvinism is very significant. We will never know what the Vedic people were like.
>>18614595I guess there could be something in Pakistan. They probably wouldn't care as much as India. In fact, Pakistanis would probably enjoy rubbing steppe admixed samples in Indians' faces.
>>18614546Fake sample
>>18614617Your buddy Niraj Rai confirmed it's real. The only thing that's fake is Indian "archaeology".It's over.
>>18614625He didn't confirm that it's real. He only told the user to stop spreading lies.
>>18614641He said that it's confidential data and that he will see that the Twitter user is punished for stealing government data. What are you even trying? Everyone can read.
>>18614659>>18614625This guy hasn't posted anything since then, could he have been arrested? And how did he get these samples?
>>18614668Rtam is a l33t h4x0r who can get into your phone and bank account if he so much as knows your full name. It was an easy job for a superhuman like rtam, hence why he acted alone. He never saw his day in court because he already blackmailed Niraj Rai with pics of him raping a dolphin while on vacation in Pakistan. You better stay on his good side or he'll get you for asking too many questions.
>>18614712Wtf lol
>>18613747>>18613754Have you tried writing to Al Jazeera about it?Have you
>>18615224?
Andronovo man has waited 3500 years, he can wait a little while longer.
>>18613722as it turns out, the dark monkey people of the indian subcontinent never wuz kangs after all
>>18615309Kek>>18615321Outdated
>>18613722
>yaghnobi2017 called they want haplospergs and autosomphiliac global PCAutists to file orderly towards the marked exitsnow
>>18613754>a well-known case is the supposed Indus Valley seals depicting horses or domestic horse bonesqrd? I was under the impression that there were no horse pictures or bones at all.
>>18615737I accept your concession, insect
>>18615831Yes? That's literally what I said. Some Indian "archaeologists" falsified it. There are no domesticated horses in the Indus Valley civilization.
>>18615891ok, but I asked about the falsification case because I've never heard about it, I basically said that nothing I've read was impacted by the affair.
>>18615928>"if you don't drink sacred-cow piss, what piss are you going to drink?"
>>18616054Any evidence of horses in IVC seals and icons at best remains inconclusive and speculative and at worstforgery. The same with these supposedly "horse bones", Richard Meadow concluded that the specimens identified by Bökönyi as Equus caballus (another falsification or deliberate misinterpretation) are Equus hemionus the Indian wild donkey N.S Rajaram was one of the Indian archaeologists who made these forgeries. https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2000-October/023168.html
>>18616551
>>18616567>>18616551Also, regarding Sinauli It's extremely confusing, You'll find dates as discrepant as 4000 BC, all to fit a supposed evidence against the "Aryan migration," because... >we have a chariot in the Indus Valley pre-invasion, therefore, the invasion didn't happen and they weren't foreigners. But there are several problems with these claims. there are some clues that can help us arrive at a more consistent date. As far as I know, apparently, radiocarbon dates range from 1865 to 1550 BC, while typological dates range from 1500 to 1000 BC. they overlap around 1500 BC.The two-wheeled ox-drawn carts of Sinauli appear to date from around 1500 BC, and Parpola described some material similarities with the Sintashta culture.There are some carbon-14 dates on wood from the site (which may be older), but judging by the types of weapons, the burials probably date from around 1500 BC, which aligns perfectly with the predicted date, and even considering earlier dates, we may be dealing here with distinct Indo-European migrations to India, pre-Vedic Indo-European migrations, I don't believe it's much older than at most 1700 BC for an earlier migration and perhaps even the first migration. This is a hypothesis based on the assumption that there were two migrations.Ironically, it was from this exact site that we had the leak of these samples.>>18614625
>>18616605>we may be dealing here with distinct Indo-European migrations to India, pre-Vedic Indo-European migrations, I don't believe it's much older than at most 1700 BC for an earlier migration and perhaps even the first migrationTo all curious minds, perhaps my statement was a bit vague, but basically we have evidence that steppe peoples arrived in South Asia via a "north-south corridor". In Pirak - Balochistan and Akra - Khyber Pakhtunkhwa there is pottery and material culture parallel to that of the Yaz I culture of Central Asia. (Allchin et al. 2019) And there could be another route, with similarities showing a real movement, not coincidence, the Central Asian horizon is also directly linked to the Srubno-Andronovo complex of the steppe (Stark et al. 2024).Lhuillier 2022 proposes that this was the entry route of steppe cultures into the subcontinent. But further excavations are needed to understand it better. Perhaps there were other older migrations as Parpola said
>>18616623>>18616605>>18616551NTA but what if the Jamboys just destroy the archaeological evidence? It's difficult to destroy genetic and linguistic evidence, but archaeological evidence is super easy Who was these idiots who let these guys do archaeology kek I bet there's some hidden shit. >>18613728>Do not redeem>Do not redeemYou already lost
>>18613722Everyone knows that the Zagros Farmers are the real Aryans, tell me what did the "steppe herders" achieve in India besides raping a civilization to death and a barbaric caste system? The Zagros farmers had already built complex cities with functioning sewage systems in the IVC but the steppeniggers had to ruin it all. The ethnic groups with the highest steppe ancestry in South asia rank nowhere above shudra in the caste system while higher caste individuals consistently show high amounts of Zagros farmer ancestry beyond ethnic lines. Presence of high-steppe ancestry is really just depends on the ethnicity rather than the caste, while high Zagros ancestry is almost universal.
>>18616654Go back to xiiter
One thing I find relevant to the thread, when studying some Bronze Age samples in Central Asia, we have archaeological sites with profiles quite similar to the MLBA steppe. One of these is some samples from Uzbekistan's Kokcha site. Besides the very similar profile, the total IBD between Sintashta and Kokcha is quite impressive.The total IBD value across the samples stands at an impressive 78%, with approximately 7 segments indicated by N-IBD. The largest shared blocks are around 19 cm—almost over 20 fucking cm. This is relevant because it indicates that the Sintashta-Andronovo groups and the communities that migrated to Uzbekistan were genetically closed and shared the same common ancestors, proving that the southward migration route was rapid and direct. The Kokcha individual was a direct descendant of Urals lineages.All that post-1960s nonsense about slow, gradual diffusion versus migration no longer holds water; the idea that native populations peacefully adopted "ideas" and copied the style and technology of steppe peoples makes little sense—that 78%cm points to a rapid, physical migration lol They were third cousins.
>>18617044There was enormous movement
here origins are circles and destinations are triangles.Bell Beaker folk from the Rhine-Meuse traveled 6000km into Central Asia
>>18617117>Bell Beaker folk from the Rhine-Meuse traveled 6000km into Central AsiaTo do what?
>>18617117>>18617115I personally consider IBD analysis one of the most significant advances in genetics in recent years. And for anyone who wants to play around and see for themselves the segments shared by the samples, you can check this website:.https://casperhub.dev/Another thing that intrigues me is: if a rapid migration from the Ural Mountains to southern Uzbekistan and Tajikistan was possible, maintaining a relatively homogeneous profile with such closely spaced segments, what would prevent the same from occurring in India? We already have archaeological evidence of some presence in these more southerly regions, we just need samples.
>>18617150He's misinterpreting this it's not that there were beakers in Central Asia only that they were very close.
>>18617044>>18617154>>18616605Why is it taking so long to collect samples in Central Asia?
>>18617044likely Proto-Vedic. Some went West and became the Mitanni, some moved into Punjab.
>>18617176Btw his facial reconstruction
>>18616629You think Indians are the only ones doing that?lmao
>>18617259it's pretty much just indians and greeks at this point, no other countries have hid samples.
>>18617259Yes, i do
>>18617267>greeksIt does seem more plausible now in hindsight and it is odd to not have more insight into anything before Mycenaeans.
>>18617289they didn't take a sample from the shaft grave prince buried with Nestor's Cup and the Mask of Agammemnon (these were just the names Schliemann gave them, they were buried 500 years before Trojan War)They also insist that there is absolutely no racial stratification for any period of Ancient Greek samples.The guy in charge of it is also a Hellenized Kartvelian, an ethnic Georgian born into Greek culture and language, just the kind of person who would have a complex over ethnicity. He openly agitates for political causes on Twitter and insists Ancient Greeks would have thought of themselves as more Asian than European. He's done the "akshually steppe people were browner than Phoenicians" thing when his own research shows Corded Ware picked up blonde hair from GAC females and that 35% of Andronovo was blonde.
Any linguist could tell you that the first thing you notice about the Greek language is that it looks like elite invaders imposing on a native population So many of the Greek words local to the Mediterranean environment do not have Indo-European roots: vine, fig, olive, hyacinth, cypress, laurel, marjoram, chickpea, chestnut, cherry and parsnip. Among the animals, the ass, the wild ox and the beetle. Words relating to material culture aren't Indo-European either: tin,bronze, lead, jar, pail, oil flask, sword, javelin, cornice, coping, chamber, bath, tub and brick. Nor are the Mycenaean words for King (Basileus), Slave, and concubine.And as much as we might not like to admit it: Odysseus, Achilles, Theseus, Athene, Hera, Aphrodite, Hermes: none of these names look Indo-European.There is one name that is unquestionably Indo-European though: Zeus.All of this evidence screams at you that some pre-Greek population existed with their own language to provide the Indo-Europeans with words for things they hadn't seen before like figs and laurels and chickpeas. This pre-Greek population was conquered, and continued to produce material tools, furniture, buildings, and weaponry for their new rulers, and used their own words for these things. The natives also told stories of their own heroes and gods, who the Indo-Europeans assimilated into to their pantheon and mythology.
>>18617396I wouldn't count on Ἥρα being a non-Indo-European word.https://www.academia.edu/37642911/Hera_and_Hero_Reconstructing_Lexicon_and_God_names
Indra was Agni's twin. Both were war gods of the ancient Aryans and Indra in particular commanded all his followers to slay the dark-skinned natives. They were very much like Rohirrim vs Orcs and Trolls. In fact the wprd rohan may have described a type of these outriders or chariot riders.
>>18617396The fact that an etymology is discussed and debated does not necessarily imply that it is not Indo-European, no matter what Beekes and his ironically "pre-Greek" dictionary say.>Odysseus>Ancient authors (beginning with theOdyssey(19.406 sqq.) link it to the verbὀδύσσομαι(odússomai,“to hate”)(which is fromProto-Indo-European*h3ed-(“to hate”)); according to this, the derivational formula would be:ὀδύσσομαι(odússomai,“to hate”)+-εύς(-eús,agentive suffix)yielding a hypothetical ὀδύσσεύς meaning "an agitator", "an inciter", "an instigator>Achilles>Since ancient times and in the present day, some have speculated that the name is connected toᾰ̓́χος(ắkhos,“distress; grief”)andλᾱός(lāós,“people”), as the grief Achilles causes people is a central theme of the Iliad>Theseus>Related to words describing law and institutions, ultimately fromProto-Indo-European*dʰeh1-(“to put”).Seeθεσμός(thesmós,“institution”)andθέσις(thésis).>AtheneUnknown, which does not necessarily mean it is pre-Greek, even if Beekes insists on this in a religious manner.>Hera>Possibly a feminine form ofἥρως(hḗrōs)or related toὥρα(hṓra)>AphroditeThere is no generally accepted etymology in academia, but again, this does not mean it is pre-Greek; some say it is. The etymology connects -δῑ́τη (-dī́tē) with the verb δέᾰτο (déăto), “to shine, to appear,” meaning “to shine, to appear,” coming from an epithet of the dawn gods.>Hermes>fromProto-Indo-European*ser-(“to bind, put together>none of these names look Indo-European.>There is one name that is unquestionably Indo-EuropeanThat's not true. What are you even trying here lying around?
>>18617462Forgot the most important or maybe you didn't mention them because they were too obvious. Both Zeus and Ares have distinct indoeuropean roots etymologically and functionally despite Ares being relegated in later times to a 'god of lust for bloodshed'.
>>18617379>>18617396>>18617379Not a thread about greece
>>18617396>So many of the Greek words native to the MediterraneanThis is off-topic, you schizophrenic. In fact, many words are being better understood now and aren't simply "pre-Greek." Read "The Pre-Greek linguistic substratum: A critical assessment of recent theories" / "Observations on the and <PG?> vocabulary in Robert Beekes's Etymological Dictionary of Greek.">who the Indo-Europeans assimilated into their pantheon and mythology. Now you're just saying a lot of random shit. Which myths are these and which gods are "pre-Greek"? the gods you mentioned are Indo-European in their etymology and there's nothing in their myths that makes them "pre-Indo-European". You necessarily have to show us what pre-IE religion and myths were like, and I wish you good luck with that.> Slave No, it comes from PIE *dos- and is related to Greek doûlos.>bronze, lead, jar, pail, oil flask, sword, >javelin, cornice, coping, chamber, bath, tub and brick. Here you are being somewhat dishonest in these statements just to support your own personal theory. We don't know the exact etymology of these words. Wikipedia lists them as pre-Greek simply due to low etymological reliability.>All of this evidence What kind of evidence are we talking about? Your personal theory based on Wikipedia? Which you apparently didn't even bother to look at? Stop trolling.
Breaking news!! Urgent!!! The Akbari 2026 data analysis has a super interesting detail: an individual similar to Sintashta and Andronovo with the haplogroup R1a-Z93>Y2, the MAIN subclade R1a-Z93 in India. Its age and location are unknown. It would be incredible if it were from Bronze Age India or somewhere near India. What do you think? Place your bets. There are more than 20 samples with unknown profiles similar to steppe_MLBA in the database.
>>18617553IBD matches
Crazy how I listed a bunch of words that cannot be securely derived from Proto-Indo-European and all I got was seething but no actual secure Indo-European reconstructions. Think about it for two seconds you faggots: you all believe the genetic evidence. When Lazaridis and Reich give you some samples, you believe them uncritically. Well Reich Labs says the Mycenaeans were only 10% Yamnaya and 90% Aeagean Pre-Greek. Are you trying to tell me that those 90% Aeageans all changed their names and their word for fig and parsnip?
>>18617560>>18617553That's interesting
You're all just mad at my framing but not at the actual substance of my argument. If I had stated it as "the linguistic record gives good evidence that Yamnaya invaded Greece and conquered the natives and ruled as kings" you would have agreed with it
Remember, this idiot is that weird Brazilian guy you all see around here, so keep that in mind before you debate with him.
>>18617553>R1a-Z93>Y2So we don't know anything more about these samples then? There's no context or anything? What's the point of releasing samples without any context?
>>18617462>link it to the verbὀδύσσομαι(odússomai,“to hate”)No one thinks this verb gave the name Odysseus. Either Odysseus came first, like Google gave rise to the verb google, or Homer just found a rare verb for hate and changed it to sound like Odysseus for the purpose of word play. Homer is our only source for this verb and he loves that sort of wordplay>>18617574Seething that I keep btfoing you and your pathetic attempts at lying about shit like Bell Beaker and Corded Ware. The funny part is that we usually agree about obvious things like the BB folk originating from the Rhine Meuse area and BB pottery coming from CW, you just have autism and think everyone is trying to subvert white history
The earliest Bell Beaker cultural material is from IberiaThe Sherden were probably from Sardinia, since evidence of their horned helmets have been found there and there are no other possible candidate seafaring culturesCorded Ware doesn't have Z2103 and is therefore not Yamnaya's son.Jacob Grimm, a Protestant, is responsible for much of Indo-European comparative mythology and linguistics
>>18617577I didn't understand your post. What do you mean we know "anything"? we have knowledge about about the genetic profile, the subclade and now we can analyze them from an IBD perspective. The problem is that the Akbari 2026 assemblage lacks archaeological context, so we have to guess based on its genetic profile. From what I could see, there are more than 20 samples with similar profiles that haven't been published.
>>18617560
>>18617589Where are you looking for these samples? Are they available on G25?
>>18617594>Where are you looking for these samples?Here https://casperhub.dev/>G25Yes, they are available. You can also download the coordinates from this website
>>18617553Judging by the subclasses, there's a chance it's in South Asia.
>>18617396As for basileus, it may be Indo-European after all.https://doi.org/10.1017/S0009838814000196
>>18617602They're all labeled steppe, why did you say they might be Indian?
>>18617603It's labeled Balkan though?
>>18613728Andronovo who brought IE languages to southern Asia, had basically the same complexion as modern Europeans. The IEs who migrated into southern asia would be considered "white" in America in 2025. Cope and seeth
>>18617607>>1861760Stop refuting me, please. I m just a poor spammer from south america
>>18617607He admits his reconstruction is dodgy and needs improvement to be accepted. There is no IE cognate for basileus and the cognates for ruler - Rex, Rajah, Reich, Rig - are some of the most immediately identifiable in all of IE, on par with cow and horse. There's also the fact that Greek has its own other PIE-derived word for ruler - anax.
>>18617614>>18617615Kek you really are seething. I'm not the Latinx faggot he always copy and pasts paragraphs other people write, like you do. I write my own posts. Reminder to respond to >>18617588
Some posters think if you just spam links and articles that don't even agree with you, you'll "win" at posting, because no one will bother to click on them. I'm not here to "win", I just want to learn. I'd be happy if you refuted me!
>>18617608? We're talking about subclades; the subclade in question is R1a-Z93>Y2, the main subclade R1a-Z93 in India. Incidentally, I'm glad that one of the main arguments against the fact that the Steppe font for India was steppe_MLBA, due to a supposed lack of R1a-Z93, has now been refuted
>>18617621Oh I see, thank you. I got confused.
>>18617621>due to a supposed lack of R1a-Z93This was always a retarded argument. It just made Indians look hopelessly ignorant and desperate.
>>18617611No? Retard.>>18617602Thanks What else is new in this database?
We've now got bell beaker samples of people that were born in the Netherlands and died in Central Asia. That basically kills Out of India Theory, it would presupposed these people could travel 6000km in one lifetime but couldn't spread from Indus Valley to Tibet
>>18617626>No? Retard.In the top right corner it says Balkan. I've never used this website so I don't know how it works, that's why I was asking.
>>18617628>That basically kills Out of India TheoryI'm sorry, what? It was never a viable theory in the first place. How is this one fact the deathblow to a whacky idea that was against all known evidence from the very beginning?
>>18617622no problem friend>>18617624Certainly. Not only is it one of the worst arguments, but it has also led to cases of schizophrenia and dementia, as they use this fact as an argument in favor of R1a-Z93 having an Indian origin simply because it is supposedly restricted to India... sigh. They still have retarded arguments to this day. The new cope is to say that although they accept that the Steppe ancestry is foreign, these peoples were not "Aryans," ad hoc after de ad hoc>>18617626It depends on what you consider new. There are several new examples of the Afanasievo culture, and some new and Yamnaya/Corded Ware subclades R1b-L151 in other samples
>>18617631I know I'm not saying "finally we've done it"It's just that the simplest refutation of OOT was always that the Indo-Europeans could travel long distances easily and many easily accessible neighbors of the Indus Valley have no history of Indo-European. All you have to do is look at the IE map for this refutation to work, completely uninformed laymen could get it. And the new facts about English Bell Beakers dying in Kazakhstan make it clear that travel was really quite easy for them, easier than we thought before.
>>18617626Leave the insults for the Brazilian above, don't insult the anon >>18617630Yes, that's why I specifically mentioned the subclade and a simple possibility, even if vague, that it's somehow related to India. There are still doubts about where the samples were located In any case, remember that we don't know about its archaeological context But if we limit ourselves to geographical questions, perhaps this could be a Scythian, right? I may have expressed myself poorly in that post it's not as if I'm stating that it's definitively an Indian sample. There are other R1a-Z93 samples. I'll look for them later and see if there's anything interesting and maybe take a look at Family Tree DNA. Anyway, this kills once and for all the idiotic argument of the Indians that there is no R1a-Z93 outside of India. The net is closing in, and the arguments are falling one by one.
>>18617628>We've now got bell beaker samples of people that were born in the Netherlands and died in Central AsiaWe do not. You are misinterpreting the data there were no Bell Beaker samples in Central Asia in the study.
>>18617607>>18617443Spammer btfo
>>18616654The caste system was zagrosian, aryans just put themselves on top, looks like being bigoted chuds backfired
>>18617044Southern Asians' Andronovo ancestors were white. They were about as light pigmented as modern Europeans. But I suspect after migrating into south Asia and admixing with locals that their genes for light pigmentation were heavily erased by selective pressures.
>>18617671Yes
>>18617666You're literally spamming moron. You constantly fill Indo-European threads with literal lies, what is wrong with you? Hera cannot be linguistically derived from hora and Hera has no connection with being a goddess of time, its pure speculation just because the words sound similar.Just stop lying and stop spamming links that don't support your posts at all and I'll stop correcting you
Try reading something about Indo-European other than DNA samples. There is no attested linguistic pattern anywhere of "hor" turning into "her". They're completely different phonologies.Telling a linguist that Hora and Hera must be related is like telling a geneticist that an R1b guy from Scandinavia must be a descendant of an R1b guy from Lake Chad in Africa.
>>18617396As for Achilles, it may be also Indo-European after all lol https://www.academia.edu/193936/The_Name_of_Achilles
>>18617660So I was right that it was labeled Balkan kek. I'm the same anon who always corrects you. Even on your own genetics website you get shit wrong.
>>18617691No, you retard, you're not right and your flagrant sameflag didn't fool anyone. The label doesn't mean what. 1) It doesn't have a Balkan profile. 2) We're not sure about the exact location of these samples because the Akbari dataset is raw data. 3) The sample resembles the steppe_MLBA profile and has R1a-Z93. Go fuck yourself.
>>18617690You're just spamming any link that claims to agree with you without reading the evidence. This isn't genetics, its linguistics. Lots of people try and fail to make etymologies.Just from skimming his paper, he makes two completely unfounded correspondences. gwh never turns into kh in Indo-European. wl never turns into ll. He's just made both of those up. You might as well make up your own etymology, say that kwekwos turned into Achilles by some random series of steps
>>18617694Lmfao you got owned. When you don't know it's me, you just accept that I'm right. You literally said Yes you agreed with me.Now I'll make sure to disguise my style so you keep submitting
Remember this whole Greek debacle started because I gave the linguistic evidence that the Greeks were mostly Aegean and got conquered by Yamnaya elite. WHICH IS WHAT GENETICS AGREES WITH. If that faggot Lazaridis is telling the truth, the highest steppe Ancient Greek sample they've ever found was a Proto-Doric with 23% steppe. And the Athenians and Mycenaeans and others are all far lower. Why don't you agree that there should be a pre-Greek substratum?
>>18617642>There are several new examples of the Afanasievo culture, and some new and Yamnaya/Corded Ware subclades R1b-L151 in other samplesI was browsing the website, and I'm still having trouble with the IBD tools but what you said above about segments and relatives is very interesting Apparently the beakers had a very small population, and there are some samples in Koken Mongolia with a Sintashta like profile but without R1a-Z93.
>>18617690Why did this idiot start talking about Greece? Did the sacrificial chickens disappear or something?
>>18617707>KokenI am aware of these samples. There is evidence of the presence of Andronovo in Aketala in the Tarim as well, but I am not sure if samples were collected. What caught my attention on the website is the striking difference between Cernavodă culture I and II, both in the same archaeological and cultural context but totally different. It is said that Cernavodă, as well as Usatovo and Ezero, would be involved in Proto-Anatolian culture
>>18617396Lol even for Hermes, its Indo-European againhttps://starlingdb.org/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&basename=%2fdata%2fie%2fpokorny&text_pages=909&method_pages=substring>sér-ye-ti(ye-present)Proto-Hellenic:*héřřōAncient Greek:εἴρω(eírō)*sér-mn̥ ~ *sér-mōProto-Hellenic:*hérməAncient Greek:ἕρμα(hérma)
>>18617714I still struggle to understand why you released almost 10,000 samples without cataloging them like you know What is the use of that for the authors of these articles?
>>18617746NTA But this is actually quite common most of these articles undergo changes or are never published so publishing the results—in this case the raw data samples
>>18617727>still talking about Greece Anon..We know he made up a story there's no point in explaining it, since he's already embarrassed, deeply upset and angry, on the verge of a nervous breakdown, confusing all the users here. I'm kind of his downfall I'm starting to think he's a masochistic homosexual.Just ignore him, like I do, and see how desperately he wants to get my attention.
>>18613722This is the future of academia in a globalized world where the majority rules. Third worlders drowning out the truth with their baseless delusions.
>>18617671Your tribe's biggest achievement is surviving a potato famine.The British ruled you for 800 years with ease and still occupy 20% of your homeland.While India repelled the Dutch, Portuguese, and Ottomans. Even the British couldn’t take India head-on—they needed a century of deceit, enormous losses, millions of British lives to impose control, and even then it lasted barely 200 years.
>>18614625It seems there are more unpublished, or in this case, leaked samples that we are unaware of.
>>18617828There was a thread a while back talking about another sample. There's coordinates. It was on xitter.
>>18617844How many samples are we talking about anyway? Perhaps it can be a large
>>18617828>>18617844But it looks strange i mean why would they cluster with Ireland instead of steppe Kazakhstan?
Supposedly, we have two samples from Mitani. One has no steppe ancestry (Turkey_Alalakh_MLBA_o:ALA019.AG), but the other sample has some steppe ancestry(Israel_Megiddo_MLBA_o:I2189.AG) and carries the Y-DNA R1a-M417. I just noticed that this same clade is carried by an individual from Andronovo Kokcha from Uzbekistan both samples carry the haplogroup of sample R1a-M417>>18617854It wasn't Rtam who leaked this one, right? So we're talking about two different leaked samples? And how do we know it's a sample from the OCP culture?
>>18617859CHC*
Indians are even manipulating Wikipedia, lmao, inventing quotes like big clowns.
>>18617854That's not clustering with Ireland. 0.05 is too large. You can put anything in a source file and check distance.
>>18617703There is no proof pure 100% Yamnaya people reached Greece, if Logkas is the people bringing Greek to Greece then 23% Steppe would imply 60% replacement by Logkas
>>18617816saar, that's stupid. india 'repelled' distant empires (although none of those were 'repelled' by indians, they pushed out each other, until the english won), while getting btfo by every single empire it shared a land border with.
>>18617891>too largeRetard
>>18617816>enormous losses, millions of British liveslmao delusional
Assuming the label on this sample is indeed "copper Hoard," Wikipedia doesn't provide much information beyond semantic games and the notable absence of an Indo-European context. (According to the wiki) However, from an archaeological point of view, I found some interesting articles on the interpretation of these artifacts. Related photo: This Yamnaya staff bears a resemblance to the weapons favored by Indo-European deities, in particular to the weapon wielded by Indra, The cudgel bears a striking similarity to the weapons favored by Indo-European deities. there are some interesting interpretations of the artifacts found at the CHC sites.
>>18617727Ok i was wrong sorry
>>18618611https://www.academia.edu/3836804/An_Indo_Iranian_Symbol_of_Power_in_the_Earliest_Steppe_Kurgans
>>18618611>>18618619>>18616623>>18616605That's really cool, actually.
