Why do people seethe so hard over the explaination that Nazism was racist socialists?
>>18616343you're not allowed to have socialism without whites giving the excess fruits of their labor to dark skinned parasitesyou're not allowed to have nationalism without unconstrained capitalismno matter how you vote, its set up to screw you over and that is by design. the party platforms you're allowed to choose between are engineered for your destruction
>>18616343The Socialists think that the working class is a distinct political class within a nation that requires its own political representation of its political and social interests. They also felt that, them being the majority of the population, their concerns should at the very least have a greater weight in the democratic political process.The Nazis were very open about how they though that was Jewish hog and bull, that the Volk was a unified national body, united by its völkisches interest and that the NSDAP party organization was the only legitimate representative of the nation's interests. They didn't like democracy one bit.
>>18616356Well you could apply that to socialists as well, they ended up placing an authoritarian government in power to enforce the socialist state. The nazies were no different. They simply added race in front of the working class and argued that real socialist utopia can only be achieved if the blood is pure
>>18616371The Nazis specifically claimed that Socialist politics were was fake, gay and nothing but an attempt to destroy the body politic of the Volk. A person's economic position and role, according to the Nazis, had no bearing on their individual position in national politics, which should only consider the interests of the Volk in its totality.They explicitly were anti-Socialist. What unites Nazis and Commies are totalitarianism, anti-democracy and one-party state organization. They completely disagreed on the existence and role of the working class.
The answer is because amongst Marxists any socialism that isn't Marxian socialism is not considered socialism (I know this because I was a Marxist and hung around Marxists a lot). To them, a conservative, a liberal, a social democrat, and a Fascist are all the same because in their eyes they all uphold capitalism in some form or another. Basically, anything short of aiming for a stateless, classless, moneyless society that begins to abolish commodity production and wage labour is seen as not being socialism.
>>18616343Because it competes directly with international socialists for followers and that is a greater sin than even being a capitalist. Same reason why religions will seethe at a heretic or apostate 10x worse than a complete pagan.
>>18616343fascism is the way
>>18616406So lets say I am socialist but I am also a nationalist who wants an ethnostate with my socialism.What am I?
>>18616796A nazbol.You're welcome, now you have an actual consistent ideology you can adhere to, faggot.
>>18616831I guess the Strassers, Mussolini, Mosley, and Rivera were all Nazbols. Fucking idiot.
>>18616843What? No one was talking about any of those people lmao, and Strasser was basically a nazbol.
>>18616796You're a Social Democrat. You think Socialism is good, but you also 100% subscribe to and support the Ethnostate logic that dominated 20st century state formation.
>>18616406>The Nazis specifically claimed that Socialist politics were was fake, gay and nothing but an attempt to destroy the body politic of the VolkNo they didn't>They explicitly were anti-Socialist.No they weren't
>>18616903You responded to someone asking if they believed in socialist style economics but wanted an ethnostate what were they and you said they were a nazbol. I am pointing out how that is retarded because several fascists had similar views and were not nazbols. Use your brain.
>>18616923>socialist style economicsWhat do you even mean by this? Workers owning the MOP? No fascist believed this.>several fascists had similar viewsYou only said two fascists, Mosley and Mussolini. And they did not believe that.Keep pissing and shitting your pants turbonigger.
>>18616406This is a lie btw. The NSDAP was explicitly pro-socialist. If anything the USSR was a capitalist system since it was just a giant corporation with Stalin as the CEO
>>18616930>>18616921Socialism is when roads, but not the Interstate Highway system, which leads to freedom every which way.
>>18616929>What do you even mean by this? Workers owning the MOP?You are legitimately retarded, holy shit.
>>18616951I accept your concession.
>>18616958I concede that you are a moron and that continuing to try and argue with you is a pointless endeavor.
People often misunderstand "socialism" in the colonial European sense of the time period of the early-1900s. Marxist-Leninist socialism is seen as the most contemporary form of socialism today because it was championed by the USSR for decades. However, there were many other notions and forms of socialism floating around before then.
>>18616981*colloquial
>>18616831>A nazbol.LMAO no I said socialism, I did not communism, and I definetly did not say Bolshevik.>>18616911Social democrat would immediately call me a nazi if I believe in the combination of a socialist state and a ethnonationalist state.Because that's what nazism was, a combination of extreme nationalism and socialism based on race.
>>18616929>Workers owning the MOP?Workers did not own the MOP in any communist regime either, so you could technically make the case that states like the USSR were fascists since they operated under the corporatist model; i.e that the state owns and organize the MOP and everyone else are just cogs in the machinery.
it is so fucking funny that they just used the word socialism to trick workers into supporting them and all these years later there are people so stupid that it continues to work
>>18617045You've basically described every communist/socialist state
>>18616989>Social democrat would immediately call me a nazi if I believe in the combination of a socialist state and a ethnonationalist state.Your regular Social Democrat isn't consciously aware or willing to acknowledge that they're living in a nation founded post-WW2 on Ethnostate principles, within an international system organized around Ethnostate principles, yes. But Socdems generally aren't Nazis because they still think that the working class exists and that it requires distinct representation of its interest and political positions.>Because that's what nazism was, a combination of extreme nationalism and socialism based on race.No, the Nazis also maintain that the working class does not exist. German workers do, but they have no right to maintain representation of their class interests, other than as part of an advisory body within the NSDAP. In any case, the needs of the nation and the Volk as interpreted by the NSDAP will always and totally supersede their personal and class interests.
>>18616345>nationalism without unconstrained capitalismNationalism has NOTHING to do with Capitalism..!Nationalism is simply the Belief that Your nation is better than the others.--- If you don't believe this YOU should expatriate yourself, Move!Also: Capitalism is the freedom to capitalize, or make money off of your own work & ingenuity. Freedom of Work.Do not fall for Socialist propaganda, lies & NewSpeak.- Rely or Real (old ) proper definitions, not NewSpeak
>>18617077No one in their right mind would call me a social democrat if my ideology was nationalist ethnostate with economic socialism.
>>18616343That's not what it was though. Unless you are going into the bismarckian conception of socialism in which welfare is socialist. The workers were subordinate to capital, indirectly.
>>18617105>Nationalism has NOTHING to do with Capitalismand socialism shouldn't have anything to do with domestic policy on how to deal with problematic racial minorities from foreign lands. The point is that the party platforms are designed deliberately to separate nationalism and socialism so that you can't ever get both no matter how you vote. And by voting for either party platform, you are tacitly endorsing truly toxic positions that will destroy the nation.
National Socialism is LITERALLY Zionism for Germans (or in the modern day, white people broadly). Hitler saw the success of the Jews how they got there thought to himself, "We need to do the same." It makes perfect sense, take what works and adapt it to fit your own needs. Jews saw this and got mad that one of the goyim had figured it out. But Hitler didn't fully embrace the Jewish lesson, he should have buckled down, took what territory he could, and built a thriving and sustainable economy while fostering that tribalistic jew culture within German society. Within a few generations, Germany could have had their own mossad infiltrating every country in the world and German diaspora working against the interests of their host country.
>>18616343I found this a while back from a neo-nazi and its a pretty honest take on what the ideology actually is. Refreshing to have someone like this be up front with the belief system instead of doing this tired "UGH AKSHULLY NAZIS WERE MULTICULTURALIST LIBERALS AND LOVED BLACKS ECT" bullshit
>>18617205Well you aren't a Nazi with a capital N or a Fascist if you believe that economic forces have engendered political class formation within capitalist society.You aren't even political if you believe in Ethnostates, because they're the foundational principle of our current world order.
>>18616345>immediately starts seething about muh brown people Obsessed
>>18616345TRUKE
>>18617898>you are obsessed with us brown personx o algx
>>18617874>You aren't even political if you believe in EthnostatesNot all states are ethnostates, and most aren't explicit, legally-decreed ethnostates. The current order is globalist and liberal and averse to ethnonationalism (except for that one merchant tribe's country).
>>18617923>Not all states are ethnostatesEven the current Empires like Russia, China and the US very much are Ethnostates as in they're politically dominated by a single ethnicity, which is also identified with its body politic and act as the holders of all rights associated with statehood. We're currently simply on the liberal bend where we don't explicitly go out on our way to limit the rights of minorities.All the same, the fundamental building block of international order is ethnicities' inalienable rights to occupy and control certain territories and at the very least autonomously control politics within those.At least outside of Africa, that is. Africans get straight lines on their maps and suffer punishment for attempting ethnostate formation.
>>18617952>as in they're politically dominated by a single ethnicityJews in the case of the US and arguably Russia too.
>>18616343
Daily reminder that capitalism isn't ideology (saying opposite is Marxist brainrot). Capitalism existed throughout whole history of human civilization and will be exists in the future. Marx's theory is just typical for 18-19th centuries utopian shit according to which people would work for free, but no one would have responsibility for anything. People are hierarchical cruel monkeys. Our brains, subconscious habit and urges derived from stone age and absolutely haven't changed. Any attempts to build utopian paradise (fascist, communist, anarchist, etc) will inevitably reduce to oligarchic regime with different (depending on country) degrees of authoritarianism.
>>18617952>Russia, China and the US>dominated by a single ethnicity>Russia, China and the US>single ethnicityLmao
>>18616343Socialist racists sounds betterIt was a good ideology
>>18616343Better yet, why do they praise Mao and Soviet Union and others. LMAO. Those 2 combined killed 100 million people. They are the absolute evil of the modern era, worse than Hitler and even Mongols.
>>18616343Pining down what the National socialists were seems to me like a very complicated and fruitless thing to do. Tbh. How do you even begin at doing that without getting caught up on yourself and deciding they were what you imagined them to be?>>18617343You are dumb. >>18617952>U.SNo, that makes abolutely no sense. What's the american Ethnos?
>>18617952Idiot, like one third of Russia looks like pic related. Are you also aware that the entire south looks like arabs? Chechnya, Dagestan etc.Russia is one of the most multicultural multiethnic countries on the planet.As is China, it has like 100 different ethnicities and cultures, but I am going to assume you think every Asian slant eye and African nigger are the same race across the continent, they all look the same right?
>>18617874Why do you keep giving these autistic answers?You said that if I had declared my ideology to be ethnostate nationalism combined with economic socialism, you said I would be a Social Democrat.Thats bullshit.No one in their right mind would ever call me a Social Democrat, least of all the Social Democrats themselves.So I ask you again, what is my ideology if I wish to combine ethnostate nationalism with economic socialism (i.e racist socialism), since you say this does not make me a Nazi. So what am I?
>>18618422Look, do you believe in one-party rule and anti-liberalism as the guiding principle of social policy? If yes, then you're a Nazi.If you think democratic participation is pretty nice, that the working class is real and that there should be economic socialist polices helping the greater number of the population and we should do that for our own citizens alone, then you're a Social Democrat.You can be a Social Democrat and a racist. It's very easy, they do it all the time. The way the post-WW2 order ended up passively and actively assist them in it, even.That American machine having been told that roads are bad a million times doesn't mean shit here. Being racist is not a political statement on its own, it's an attitude, no different from being a cyclist in the US or being a tranny online. Are you actually socially anti-liberal? Do you believe in the one-party state? Do you believe in the primacy of the supreme leader's decisions? Do you think the international order is fake and gay and your people should just follow their specific racial global mission and do what needs to be done? That's the kind of opinions that make you a Nazi, just thinking that there sure are a lot of negros around who need to go back doesn't cut it here.
>>18616343You're an idiot. National Socialism is a misnomer. The Nazis were staunch capitalists who loathed socialists. Communists, socialists, unionists, etc were among the first victims of the Nazis. Fascism is by definition the union of state and capital. Nationalist Socialism does exist, but they are a distinct group from Nazis.
>>18618542Nazis banned international socialist groups; because many of them were just fronts for Soviet spy/terror rings. They had the German Labor Front as the official state trade union.
>>18616981>Marxist-Leninist socialism is seen as the most contemporary form of socialism today because it was championed by the USSR for decades. However, there were many other notions and forms of socialism floating around before then.I think people have a hard time thinking that "socialism" can also be a right-wing reactionary political formation. Or versions of it can.Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels listed various forms of socialism in the Communist Manifesto which their own theory was intended to critique. This was in the 1840s. There was (what they called) feudal socialism, petit-bourgeois socialism, and German socialism (or "true" socialism / wahrer sozialismus, which is what some German writers called it, but Marx and Engels used quotation marks in an ironic way). There were different tendencies. The closest similarities to the later Nazis was probably "petit-bourgeois socialism."I think what tends to confuse people is that the Nazis drew on older socialist traditions from the 19th century (they also celebrated May Day) but were ruthless and hostile towards the left-wing parties in Germany. They killed a lot of them, sent socialist politicians to concentration camps. They killed a lot of the communists, others fled. They were also antisemitic and racist. The way I think about it, socialism/communism was a pretty strong force in Germany in the 1920s, which was also deeply polarized and divided. There had also been a bloody revolution and civil war in Russia where communists came to power. This scared the shit out of a lot of people and there was a counter-attack from the right, but in the process the right also borrowed techniques, symbols, organizational methods, etc. from socialists and communists in order to compete.
>>18618623>They had the German Labor Front as the official state trade union.Robert Ley, the Nazi politician tasked with running that, was not one of their best either, I've got to say. I read a speech he gave and he was like "the firm... is holy" and Germany was like one big company, but the managers should talk to the workers more, that'd be nice mmm'kay.>>18616930>The NSDAP was explicitly pro-socialist. If anything the USSR was a capitalist system since it was just a giant corporation with Stalin as the CEOYou could make that argument. The USSR was weird because it was really total state ownership but with a radically concentrated political leadership in a small group. The Third Reich was quite weird though. They kept private property, but combined that with non-compete clauses. They had industrial and financial business conglomerates (I.G. Farben, Krupp) with executives who became Nazi Party members. The SS was also a private organization although Himmler was also a government minister. They said they weren't going to nationalize industry because national socialism was based on a "spiritual" (lol) nationalization of the economy rather than a materialistic one. That basically meant people believed in vibes and also they could take your shit if you were Jewish or an enemy of the state. The state could confiscate your business for example and then transfer ownership to another private business owned by politically-connected businessmen.The "Reichserbhofgesetz" or Hereditary Farm Law is also interesting to read about. The USSR collectivized agriculture. Anyways, the Nazi law was to standardize which son in the family would inherit the farm. The idea was to preserve a class of independent farmers (petit-bourgeois socialism!), which was the opposite of the Soviet Union, the goal in Russia was to destroy them as a class and replace them with this:https://youtu.be/UE-jGjCEzH4
From the Communist Manifesto. The last three paragraphs sum up an important aspect of what national socialism was IMO
>>18618674Yeah and farm collectivization and killing/gulaging/exiling the "kulaks" (farmers with generations of experience) led to famines. Turns out urbanite sissy jews who've never set foot on a farm in their life can't manage agriculture.
>>18618762Not to mention Lysenko, who said that genetics was "le evil fascist pseudoscience" so they ignored international studies on crop management and did a bunch of stupid shit.
>>18618542You're not saying anything concrete.Your entire argument is basically "they cant be an offshoot of socialism because they targeted socialists".That's like saying Protestants cant be christian because they targeted Catholics.The NSDAP wanted their own version of socialism based on race and nationalism and viewed socialists and communists are enemies because these were not nationalists and wanted class struggle and were seen as allies of the Soviet Comintern. They were enemies of the state for that reason.
>>18618676I remember reading the ‘festo for the first time in college and thinking “that pretty much describes fascism” when reading this part.Marx predicted the petty bourg would shrink and disappear, yet they only became even more numerous and powerful as the decades went on. I’ve never read capital (like most people) so I have no idea if he or Engels ever reversed this position.
>>18618542Post war Marxian cope to separate themselves from fascism and also make it less popular with proletarians.Terms like “communism” and “socialism” existed decades before Marxism. They don’t get to define how anti capitalist you have to be in order to be socialist.
>>18616831>>18616989>LE NAZ-BOLLhaahahahahah I never knew until today, how loving and happy National Socialist peoples are, until I've heard how jews and their golems call us. "nazbol" they said. Haha, unbelievable. What is going in their minds? Let's not imagine.HH.
>>18618786>Marx predicted the petty bourg would shrink and disappear, yet they only became even more numerous and powerful as the decades went on.It's an odd thing. Maybe they were right because a lot of small farmers, shopkeers, etc. have disappeared. Like, independent tailors??? That's a pretty boutique thing now. It's like the Sopranos bit where the wise guys from the "merchant's cooperative" try to shake down a manager of Starbucks, and it doesn't work because he's completely disposable and there are 10,000 of these chain stores in North America. But the level of working-class politics in the 21st century is also very low if it can even be said to exist at all, which might also be related in some way to how the economy is "socially" organized today.
>>18618948>>18618786Franchise stores.Franchise stores.
>>18618917I've never heard the term "Nazbol" in my entire life up until now. What a desperate cope invention of a term.
>>18617952>US>ethnostateThe last time the US was an ethnostate was the 1960s. White Americans haven't been the dominant culture since the early 00s at best. There's simply no comparison with Russia and China where society at every level reflects Russian and Han Chinese dominance. Any perceived White American dominance in the past 20 years is just the seniority Whites have working itself through the system (Whites make up 75% of Americans over 65 but less than half of Americans under 18.>>18618405>Russia is one of the most multicultural multiethnic countries on the planet.And it's leadership is mostly ethnic Russians (in the broad sense including Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians) who are overrepresented, especially today where non-Slavs have a greater share of the population than ever.>As is China, it has like 100 different ethnicities and culturesYes, and Han Chinese are 91% of the country and almost all the top CCP leaders.
