The glazing of this man will end.
I guess that's what it takes to win a civil war.>undemocratic behaviorSilly complaint during a civil war. Democracy must necessarily be paused when the populace fights against other parts of the populace.>not declaring war>no congressional approval of warDoesn't apply to civil wars
>>18620355>undemocratic behaviorCSA just trying to steal US territory without winning a vote in congress was pretty undemocratic
>Look Mom, I posted it again!
>>18620259Without Lincoln you’ll need a visa to visit New Orleans. Think about that, think about authentic gumbo and crawfish soup
>>18620361US invaded Missouri
>>18620259It is rather annoying how so many have such a fantasized opinion of him, always putting him as either the #1 or #2 president of all time. Ending slavery was great and all, but why is that the sole reason for admiring him? Why is everything else ignored? LBJ passed the civil rights act but nobody sucks his dick about it because people are willing to look at every other shitty thing about his administration. But not Lincoln. He's exclusively the hero who ended slavery and nothing else.Realistically, he was at best a subpar president and at worst the shittiest president. He failed to prevent war with the South and more than doubled down in engaging in that war which led to the deaths of more Americans than any other war as well as mismanaging it horribly at the start, on top of violating rights more than any other president, rivaled only by Woodrow Wilson.
>>18620776>Woodrow WilsonAnd that's where you have become the same kind of consensus humping normalfag you claim not to be.
>rightoids seething about lincoln because he stopped them from making their home into brazil 2same energy as them seething about FDR saving capitalism from itself
>>18620743The federal government, through Congress and federal law, holds absolute, ultimate sovereignty over all U.S. territory. Where the sovereignty is restricted, it is so by federal law. It cannot "invade" it's own territory.
>>18620901Brazil has cleaner train stations than most American cities, so in that sense he saved us from being Brazil 2
>>18620901>yeah uhm if it weren't for Lincoln America might have....MUTTS!!!Wow thanks Lincoln, for a second I was scared there
>>18620776The south began seceding from the union before Lincoln even assumed office. There was quite literally nothing that he could have done to avoid that short of going back in time and becoming unequivocally pro slavery or not running for office. You also need to realize that the reason the south was initially so successful was actually because they were able to organize and arm themselves while Buchanan was in his lame duck period. As far as his handling of the war, I also disagree with your assessment that he did a poor job. Sure, you can nitpick this or that decision but he had it won within one presidential term and his resolve to keep the union intact was absolutely a huge reason why they succeeded. That's not a given either. There were plenty in the north that would have sued for peace sooner and made huge and detrimental concessions to the confederacy in the process. He easily deserves the #2 ranking and he is one of the most remarkable men this nation has ever produced.>>18620901I'm literally a paleocon and I am pro union lol.
>>18620776>>18621074Oh yeah I also wanted to add some comparisons:U.S. Revolution: 8 years, government lost. French Revolution: Monarchy overthrown almost immediately. English Revolution: King deposed and beheadedRussian Revolution: Monarchy overthrown and entire family killed. The list goes on. Considering that, 4 years and unconditional victory doesn't seem that bad.
>>18621074When did I mention secession? He couldn't prevent secession but he could have prevented the full scale war. And there's simply no denying he managed the start of the war awfully. The Confederates did far better at the start than they should have, not due to their own brilliance but the sheer ineptitude of Union leaders, which includes Lincoln.Easily deserving #2 for what? Killing more Americans than anyone else in all of history? I would consider a top president to be one who brings their nation into peace and prosperity, not devastating war. As much as you wish to glaze Lincoln, you know full well you'd never wish to live under his administration, because you'd be dying in a field in Georgia if you did. Compare that to more competent presidents like Monroe or Coolidge, where'd you likely be enjoying a peaceful life at home under their administrations. Peace and prosperity doesn't tend to make for great mythologized stories, which is why those who led such times often rank much lower than those who led conflict and turmoil.
>>186210834 years with hundreds of thousands of dead Americans and half the nation in ruins is not a good thing. The Civil War had 13 times the Americans dead in 4 years than those who fought in Vietnam in 20 years. I think casualties and devastation matter more than length.
>>18621023Lincoln is basically a god to these kids because he gives them the chance to LARP as European reactionaries killing Hungarian/Polish rebels. All leftists are likes this; subverting tradition but deep down wanting to associate themselves with it. The divine right of Lincoln is simply a dogmatic belief that is not to be questioned.But anyway, in actual fact, Lincoln dissolved the Union as a free association of self-governing States--which is what we fought for in the Revolution--and declared the Yankee Empire in which the Southern States would have to play a subordinate role and be denied their part in westward expansion. Obviously we opted out.
>>18621101Ratifying Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution gave up sovereignty and after that point "secession" required an act of congress.Which the South totally could have pursued, but they opted to be lawless traitors. Through an act of misguided mercy however they were, alas, not hung.
>>18621116The Yankees didn't hang us because they were afraid, not because of mercy, which they did not have--they pushed their luck as far as they dared to. If they actually thought they could've hung Jeff Davis, they would, but they knew it just would've proved him correct and made him a martyr. There was a very real fear that the Southern States would simply re-secede after the abolition army demobilized.
>>18621119Yes, that's why it was misguided mercy, because it's always misunderstood as weakness by the spared. Even when they are people who conceive of themselves as Christians. Even the Romans knew this. Hanging every last rebel in a position of power and putting them under damnatio memoriae would have spared us of this tiring bullshit 200 years later, but hindsight is 20/20.
The funny thing about every anti-Confederate argument is that it always seems to prove the South right. It's always just some variation of "We hate you and this is why you deserved this." Okay, guess secession was a pretty good idea then? Thanks for agreeing with me I guess.
>>18621132>Ignore this post >>18621116>Passively aggressively claim there's no argumentsWe should kick you out due to insufficient intelligence
>>18621131Okay, but they couldn't hang them for reasons I just explained, so why did you just repeat yourself without responding to what I said? And there is no "us," buddy, you are brown and thus not an American. American is an ethno-racial, not a political identity. But barbarians always want to dress up as the civilized, I suppose.
>>18621140The Southern people govern the South by rights, just as the Northern people have the rights to the North. This is how God made things; only the natives own their countries, not outsiders. I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't even believe in the concept of treason or legitimate government; you're just cynically using these words to try and gain leverage over me, but it's not working.
>>18621143Of course they could. They could have come down full force of the law on every last southerner who promoted treason. The reason they didnt was misguided "Christian values" and "havent enough people died".
>>18621146Mentally ill ramblings from inability to understand that since 1789 federal law has been supreme in every last inch of southern territory
>>18621147>They could have come down full force of the lawNot only did the radicals do this, they broke the law at every chance and even attempted to launch a coup for the legislature against the presidency so they could loot and brutalize the South even harder. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you were unaware of this and everything that happened during Reconstruction.
>>18620259It was a genuine national crisis, and he did reverse course when the moment of crisis passed, so it was not just a power grab.
>>18621155If they had your pawpaws pawpaw wouldnt have been around to spread his confused bullshit onwards down to you
>>18621154Was Hitler a legitimate ruler? After all, the law said so. I assume you also submit to the rule of your lawfully elected president Donald Trump, so why haven't you self-deported back home yet?
>>18621158So you've run out of things to say? That's your limit? Guess you were a little bit in over your head on this one. Thanks for the entertainment, I guess.
>>18621132A house divided cannot stand.
>>18621161I agree. That's why we decided to move our house away from the freaks next door who had burned theirs down and were screaming like retards about how the house we built was actually theirs.
>>18621159In Hitlers Germany, after 1933, there was no representation. In the US in 1861, every single citizen in the South had representation in the House of Representatives, and every state in the South had representation in the Senate.Nothing stopped them from introducing a bill of secession and trying to get it passed. Having failed to do so but still seceding was treason and deserved a heckin good hanging.
>>18621163>weYou were not there
>>18621160I welcome and accept your concession and defeat.
>>18621167Have you noticed that human beings are organized into different groups? Google "nation" if you need to be introduced to this concept; be enlightened.
>>18620259trvth
Fact.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mr8e-0j-5ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOpuelmCk4A
>>18621176You are larping. It's cringe.
>>18620259
>>18623949kek
>>18620743And Kentucky>>18620361Secession was legal. Read the 10th amendment again, slowly. The Union was voluntary. What Lincoln did is basically like if the EU had invaded the UK after Brexit.
>>18620259 This guy destroyed America worse than Obama.
>>18621131The fact vice-president and US secretary assassination not successful is disappoint.
>>18620776The fact that you're literally shaking now just thinking about him tells the whole story.
>>18625829The Supremacy Clause>This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.Says nothing about States getting to opt out by actions on the state level, and in fact it's impossible that they could, because if they could then the US Constitution and federal laws compliant with it would not be the supreme Law of the Land, state law would.Thus you are objectively wrong, and a faget to boot.
>>18620355>Silly complaint during a civil war. Democracy must necessarily be paused when the populace fights against other parts of the populace.you're making it sound like there was rioting in the streets or somethinga bunch of states got together and decided they want to secede and they should have been allowed to
>>18621132>I hate you but I'll kill you if you try to leave me
>>18626371>No sorry sir, we cant shoot the cannons at that house, it would violate the 5th amendmentyou're a literal retard, arent you?
>>18626373Every single confederate was (is) free to leave at any time, they just werent free to take stuff that wasnt theirs to take, like US territory
>>18626385have there ever been any independence movements you approve of?
>>18626382I don't get your paraphrase here.
>>18626484I think anons point illustrates why peacetime laws and due process are fundamentally incompatible with warzones
>>18620259Abraham Lincoln was a proto communist demon sent to destroy the country the founders created.
>>18620259Hopefully
>>18620259South is rising again
>>18630031Rise up, Virginian! Take up arm, Southern!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plLaCMsurpg
>>18620259not yet
