>lifelong devoted communist>first thing he does when coming to power is restore capitalismWhat the fuck was his problem?
>>18628485Can we please permaban all Sinophiles from /his/? You retards are more obnoxious than Indians
China does whatever china does
>>18628485he's like bukharin and khrushchev turned up to 11
>>18628488Still seething at the CXMT IPO?
>>18628485doesnt take a genius he saw witch way his country was heading and wanted to correct it from all of maos autism
>>18628639I will become a pro reunification chud if they bring ssd/ram prices back down to reality
Mao was a critic of economicism, at least Mao believed that economy shouldn't be placed in command of a society. Deng was the complete opposite, he believed that economic progress would legitimize the rule of the party. Especially after the cultural revolution where a generation of people that were used to being vocal for changes, and especially with the liberalization of the Chinese economy, a good portion of them were demanding for the liberalization of the political structure itself.Capitalism however became a rather useful tool for the party. Since economic progress and growth can be in a way did help the party to stay in power and even silenced the more politically minded populace which were eventually replaced by the more economically minded people, which has since become mainstream within the Chinese society.
The moment mao purged him, he became a man without ideology.
He was getting purged and repurged from day one for being a "capitalist roader"
>>18628488Move all the denominational shitflinging to /x/ first
>>18628485There's two kinds of CCP members during the 20th century: you had the moderates who just wanted to use communism to create a modern, powerful, Chinese nation state, using communism as a tool but not its endgoal. Deng was a moderate. So too was the ridiculously powerful Zhou Enlai.Then you have the Maoists, who were a bunch of radical accelerationists with a millennarian-tier obsession of speedrunning the attainment of communism.Maoists initially were dominant due to Mao getting Founding-Emperor street cred for winning the Chinese Civil War and gaining the literal worship of the peasantry, but eventually the more educated & rational moderates tardwrangled the CCP away from the radicals after Mao proved he was a fucking retard that did the Great Leap Forward & Cultural revolution.
>>18628790How was Deng a moderate, the liberalization of the Chinese economy and how the social system was dismantled to achieve the growth target China has right now is by any mean not accelerationist? Deng was in no way different than Mao in that both of them would go on any lengths to achieve their goal.
>>18628790The real moderates were people like hua goufeng that just wanted to make china a bog standard ML state and avoid mao's worst excesses, but the liberals outmaneuvered them shortly after the gang of four got arrested largely because maoism was completely delegitimized within the ccp by the cultural revolution
>>18628485Deng was a stauch communist until he died. The different between him and Mao was the steps needed to achieve communism long term.
>>18628667>>18628902The idea that a capitalist phase is necessary before socialism is legitimate, though it does undermine the justification for communists taking power, because why not just let the bourgeois KMT do guided capitalist development if you don't plan on socialism in the near term?A core issue is that the mode of production determines politics. Deng seems to not have understood or cared, but basically a capitalist economy dooms the ruling faction to inevitably become a tool of finance capital themselves.We already see with Xi Jinping that socialism is a dead ideology which they only pay lip service to in order to retain some legitimacy. China's one remaining weakness vs other dictatorships of capital is the fact it's a one party state, so has not divided the working class along meaningless party lines, which leaves to threatening potential of a working class movement emerging. In the decades after Chinese annexation of Taiwan I predict that the KMT will actually be rehabilitated as the right wing party of a Chinese left-right two party capitalist 'democracy'. Then the program of reform and opening up will be complete.
>>18629041> In the decades after Chinese annexation of Taiwan
>>18628488They are Indians lmao
>>18629078its hard to see how they will fail if it comes to war.
>>18628485>witnesses millions of people die for no reason>realizes that central planning is too prone to mismanagement and the market despite all its flaws provides more stability>china must first be rich before it embraces communism so that it can afford to be inefficiently ran by central plannersthats the gist of it
>>18629041The CCP needs to cling on the motto of building socialism because it is the only identity they still have. Albeit in reality China has became an economic state where the party is mainly obsessed with making the line go up. It has worked up until now, but to a certain extend the economic progress became meaningless to the average individual. which is probably why they been drumming up patriotism so they can use that to legitimize their rule when economic growth no longer can. I don't think the CCP will ever relinquish any type of political control, if anything, China will exert more control over its citizens while trying to make itself palatable on the global stage, solely to keep the economy going.
I agree, he should have doubled down on retarded communist policies and killed a few hundred million more chinamen.
>>18629449>it's hard to see how a paper army with zero veteran soldiers or officers, which has never stress-tested its logistics systems, which as no naval tradition or military history worth speaking of, will be victorious in a massive naval campaign against the world's most powerful navy + its alliesOkay bro.
>>18630114The Chinese defeated the US in the Korean war when they were massively outmatched. China is a major supplier of Russia in the Ukraine war and clearly has information sharing agreements with Russia, sothey have acess to cutting edge land warfare.Most importantly, China dwarfs western production in all assets important for war. You could argue Japan in WW2 had more historic naval experience than the US, but it didn't matter in the end because the US could replace their losses. Vs China the US is in the Japan spot. Significantly inferior in production capacity. Not even mentioning the fact that it will be difficult to even get anywhere near Taiwan with the US surface fleet.
>>18630146>The Chinese defeated the US in the Korean warSouth Korea exists
>>18630099>I don't think the CCP will ever relinquish any type of political controlGradually the CCP will stop being autonomous in it's own right and will become filled with bribed actors like western governments. At this point it just suits the interests of the people doing the bribing from a risk management perspective to have two vetted parties.
>>18630168China entered the war on the strategic defensive with the goal to preserve North Korea as a buffer state, which they did.
>>18630184Okay, the United States entered the war to defend South Korea at the request of the UN against the KPA and they did.
>>18630191The US defeated North Korea and China defeated the US. Simple as. Defeat meaning failing to complete your war objectives. After initial successes the US objective was to capitulate the North Korean regime and unify Korea under their puppet dictatorship.
>>18630194That's not a defeat, that's a stalemate
>>18628485He saved China from imploding into civil war by Maoists vs everyone.>>18630194South Korea isn’t a puppet dictatorship.You literally know nothing about South Korea at all besides from Garbage North Korean Propaganda.
>>18630197if the only defeat you count as defeat is fall of berlin style capitulation then yeah.
>>18628485Restore capitalism? China was never previously a capitalist economy. It went from fuedalism to communism.
>>18630146If you think Ukraine is cutting edge land warfare I have a bridge to sell you. Nothing happening in Ukraine couldn't be solved by having a semi competent airforce and strategic bombers. Drones are literally useless as a defense against a B52.
>>18630286They have historically been heavily Mercantile, hence "Communism with Chinese Characteristics"
>>18628485t. doesn't understand how Marx's dialectic theory of history is supposed to work
>>18630293Mercantilism is shock mercantilist, which is not capitalism. But the state was far closer to fuedalism than European mercantilism.Current China is a Nazi style authoritarian command economy. Using markets as long as they think they are useful, but still picking winners, losers and the overall direction.
>>18629041Because China barely had a bourgeois to begin with. If the KMT took power, at least from the CCP perspective, the most likely outcome would have been the tiny Chinese bourgeois being forced to adopt a comprador position while foreign imperialist capital raped the country
>>18630291please list the wars between great powers won by strategic bombing.
>>18630307good point actually. The official line of the KMT was that they would do a guided capitalist economic development akin to what the CCP do today, but the KMT were so corrupt that they may well have sold the country anyway.
He was like Richard Nixon, basically. He followed the evidence given what he expereinced and deferred to experts while still being critical.
>>18628488>more obnoxious than indiansIn my experience, only jews fit that description. Wumaos are annoying too, but not at the same level.
>>18630114Iran right now is winning against the US and Israel with just missiles. Guess which country has, by far, the largest potential for the industrial production that allows for the production of missiles and drones?
>>18630445There are many cultural obstacles that's why most countries have the problem where you can't arm too much of the populace too fast or they kill each other. The right to bear arms could never exist in China ask any real chink who is from there. Who would even control the missiles? You probably don't know this but China has 8 presidents and 7 of them hate Xi. Are you going to give missiles to poor illiterate retards or Shenzhen metro faggot fuccbois with every incentive not to fight? Generals? Way too many of them have scores to settle. And Taiwan is ready which makes them the Iran of this scenario.
>>18628485The funny thing is in the early days of 20th century China, before communists, took root. Chinese intellectuals went to study in France and in America. Those who went to France and came back, became communists. Those who went to US and came back became capitalists. The result is what you see
>>18630776Dollars have an artificially inflated exchange rate due to the dollar being the global reserve currency. It doesn't take a genius to observe that shithole states like Alabama are indeed significantly poorer per capita than the richer fraction of developed countries elsewhere in the world. These fake stats are just used to propagandize poorfags that live in those shitty states. It's no different than North Korea saying Americans live in igloos or some shit.
>>18630445>Iran is winningback to /pol/ sissy
>>18630776Xi Jinping and Wang Huning both went to America and they are still communists.
>>18630807So if Iran is losing when is the US victory?You sound like a Russian. They love telling you Ukraine is losing, just never when Russia will win.Reminder:Napoleon took Berlin in 2 weeksHitler took Paris in 6 weeksJapan took Singapore in 70 days165 days and Trump hasn't taken anything
>>18631252>they are still communistsNobody tell him.
>>18631254>So if Iran is losing when is the US victory?Good faith argument! Got any more false-dilemma fallacies you want to share with the class? Go back to Twittter
>>18631254You're comparing wars of conquest where the goal is to completely seize sovereignty over territory with a joint-military operation over shipping rights. Third worldists have completely poisoned your brain and capability for critical thought
>>18630802>It doesn't take a genius to observe that shithole states like Alabama are indeed significantly poorer per capita than the richer fraction of developed countries elsewhere in the world.This is pretty severe cope my friend
>>18630114Presumably by having more industrial capacity, similar to WW2
>>18628485>lifelong devoted communist"Communism" in third world shitholes essentially meant the idea that God didn't decide on the ruler and social organization, that capitalism was a colonialist project which would never achieve first-world status for the periphery, and lastly that Marx had cracked the code of "history" and predicted that communism would overtake capitalism. As such, given the rapid industrialization of the USSR and the promise of free support, communist parties in the third world believed that Marx's theories had been vindicated and that this was their unique opportunity at overcoming the West. Most of them didnt know anything about economics or politics, but genuinely believed that they had found the secret recipe by copying the Soviet's plannification, which they believed would grant them the possibility of developing faster and outgrowing western countries.>first thing he does when coming to power is restore capitalismIt's not surprising; he didn't believe in communism per se, he simply thought that it would enable his country to develop faster and that it would become the future default mode of production. Once he realized that this wasn't the case, he simply backed off and chose another path by which he thought China could overtake the West. >>18628797>>18628790>radical accelerationistsThey were both """accelerationists""" in the loose sense of developing their country and speedrunning the achievement of getting equal status to developed nations. The major difference was which path was to be taken. >>18630099This. Good post>>18630776What happens when you stop using shekels consoomed by goyims and instead switch to quality of life (OECD metric)?
Chinks included the small chink petite bourgeoise as part of the a priori oppressed groups. Which is kinda true. Capitalism is not when markets exist.
>>18631599>What happens when you stop using shekels consoomed by goyims and instead switch to quality of life (OECD metric)?Then the US is in the top 20 as your pic implies, which is remarkable given its population. By the same standard China is a third world shithole by the way
>Lenin characterized the NEP in 1922 as an economic system that would include "a free market and capitalism, both subject to state control", while socialized state enterprises would operate on "a profit basis".[1] Nouveau riche people who took an advantage of the NEP were called NEPmen (нэпмaны).>The Soviet authorities partially revoked the complete nationalization of industry (established during the period of war communism of 1918 to 1921) and introduced a mixed economy which allowed private individuals to own small and medium-sized enterprises,[2][3]:47–48 >Further decrees refined the policy. Other policies included monetary reform (1922–1924) and the attraction of foreign capital. (Ford Motor Company seized the opportunity).This is the Soviet Fucking Union
Deng was one of the sensible ones who wanted basically state capitalism. Liu Shaoqi was another. And there's nothing contradictory in it at all. They were probably realists who wanted to strengthen China. But what they did also aligns with Marxist ideology – the precondition for socialism is an advanced capitalist economy
>>18631599>USA is still has a higher quality of life than Japan, the UK, and Franceweebs....yurosisters...it's over...
>>18631636>>18631663Oh yeah of course, the USA is almost the poster-boy of developed status in all confounded categories. What's I'm contesting is the idea that the U.S. is exceptionally more advanced than its peers in all domains. In reality, the US produces more wealth but also has many metrics in which it ranks much lower than its developed counterparts -- health, inequality, violence, access to education etc. Taking shekels/goyim is simply not the end be all of comparisons is what I'm trying to say
>>18631695It's just underdeveloped enough to dangle keys in front of its citizens faces, it helps to prevent its populace from becoming too compliant like what happened to its european neighbors
>>18628485communism
>>18631632China is most definitely capitalist. Not only is China a critical pillar of world capital, they also export more capital than they reinvest within China. That is to say, China is well within the process of transitioning to the most mature stage of Capitalism as defined by Lenin. The result will be that China will become militarist as a hammer used by it's capitalists to protect their investments around the world, and eventually will lose it's sovereignty as their investments around the world become so big that they no longer prioritize China. The US is on the same path, just a century more advanced.
>>18631370>joint-military operation over shipping rightswasn't the status quo before the war that there was free trade through the strait?So the US has been fighting for months burning through their stockpile to achieve... The pre war status quo. LOL
>>18631639Lenin specifically described it as a temporary retreat which was to be reversed as soon as the situation was stabilized, so that capitalist relations did not have time to develop. No comparison with Deng and subsequent CCP who are ideologically capitalist. Xi always talks about how great 'reform and opening up' is, which is Chinese speak for further reducing what vestiges of socialism remain. Not only have capitalist relations developed in the extreme, the capitalists are now so powerful that they can't be put back in the box. Sure China can target individual billionaires, for now, but as a class? No chance. Xi has repeatedly guaranteed private big capital that the regime has no plans to move toward socialism, and at this point capital is clearly too big to peacefully subdue even if they tried. In reality capitalism is so endemic that the CCP itself is full of rich capitalists, so it's a lot more extreme than the NEP
>>18628485>serve Mao loyally for years>get harassed and assaulted by young retards because Mao labeled you as a rival suddenly (le Cultural Revolution)>get exiled to a tractor factory>Mao dies>"Maybe I should fix some of this retardation."
>>18630776It's weird how France has just slutted itself out to communism ever since the early 1900s. The same country that fought against the NVA was also host to dozens of Marxist think tanks.
>>18631759Communism had massive grass roots support. France had the potential to liberate itself in WW2 like Yugoslavia, but the allies refused to arm the French communists so could only draw on a tiny number of DeGaullist partisans. The only reason Hitler was able to visit Paris in 1940 was because the Soviet Union was in alliance with Germany at the time, so French communists were not actively trying to kill Hitler.
>>18630334>good point actually. The official line of the KMT was that they would do a guided capitalist economic development akin to what the CCP do today, but the KMT were so corrupt that they may well have sold the country anyway.NTA but I think the Chinese communist justification was also "imperialism" while casting the KMT as being in cahoots with foreign powers who weren't doing the thing. I think this was more plausible in the 1940s because the KMT was very oligarchical. There were a handful of powerful business families in China who larped like European aristocrats and made their money as middlemen, like import-export, selling raw materials or porcelain or whatever. They weren't really industrialists trying to modernize the economy. (I don't know a lot about it, but this is my crude understanding).Chinese communists had the right combination of being (a) go-go modernizers / anti-conservative (b) anti-imperialist; but read "anti-imperialist" here as anti-foreigner. It's also why retaking Hong Kong was such a big deal for them. Communism in these places was a unique mix of being simultaneously hostile to tradition (social progress) but also outflanking the nationalists. This was probably only possible because of the peculiar conditions that China was in. Large parts of the country were really ass-backwards, like straight out of antiquity level backwards, while they were also being invaded. They lost pieces of the country to Europeans who were sailing down rivers on gunboats. Parts of the coastal cities run by Europeans. Then Japan invaded in the 1930s. The rural agricultural economy (which was 90% of the population) reads like the antebellum South in the U.S., like with plantations.
>>18631747>>get harassed and assaulted by young retards because Mao labeled you as a rival suddenly (le Cultural Revolution)He wanted to restore capitalism in China. He's very lucky that Mao was a very forgiving man.
>>18630334Also when Mao and other Chinese communist texts back then refers to "compradors," they were referring to people like the Soong family and also the Chiangs. Michelle Yeoh played one of the heiresses in a movie.Also "bureaucratic capitalism." It's a thing in a lot of third-world countries (and some first-world ones too!) where massive wealth is acquired because of positions in the government. You see this in Africa a lot. KMT China did in fact have a large amount of state ownership but these wealthy families controlled the state. They made a lot of money from exporting raw materials from state-owned mines, for example. The railroads were also state-owned. There's a comedy movie where John Candy gets kidnapped and brainwashed into becoming a communist and the part at 1:15 is funny because that's literally how the Chinese communists talked, the scriptwriters just copied Maoist language word for word lol:https://youtu.be/Ne2hpWVR4D0Anyways it's ironic because you'll see some Marxist-Leninsts with a very crude, vulgar kind of thinking about how some country in the world has state ownership (including contemporary China!) which makes it based. But I don't think that's what Mao was going for back then exactly.
>>18630194It was a draw due to both sides achieving their goals. The US achieved its casus belli of pushing out North Korea from South Korea while China achieved its casus belli of pushing the US out of North Korea. The US failed in later goals of pushing into North Korea just as China failed in its later goal of pushing into South Korea.If the US had lost the war, South Korea would not exist.
>>18631772>(a) go-go modernizers / anti-conservative (b) anti-imperialist; but read "anti-imperialist" here as anti-foreignerAh, I forgot to clarify this. It's better to split this into three categories like:(a) go-go industrialism (b) anti-conservative (c) anti-foreigner / anti-imperialist.The Chinese communists including during Mao were very pro-industry. It's like crash forward into the future. Then you have a war with feudal things (in the political superstructure) which will also accelerate industry combined with the people's liberation army to keep out the imperialists. But the subjective belief in the power of ideological motivation was also unusually strong with Maoism. This is said to have contributed to the disaster in the Great Leap Forward. There was something similar in the 1930s in the Soviet Union. Then during the Cultural Revolution this went haywire because the ideological "struggles" against the "old" thing which is to help rapidly develop the country turned into a daily thing that was also extremely violent. North Korea meanwhile has a thing they call Chollima campaigns which is a copy of Stalinist-era and Maoist-era ideological pushes to mobilize people to work harder, it's named in the Korean case after a mythical winged horse that goes very fast: https://youtu.be/Izg91fVxXhE
>>18631714The US is obviously trying to cripple Iran's ability to project power and develop nuclear weaponry. If Iran wins, it will be a pyrrhic victory for them with the US just giving up politically, as Iranian leadership has been decimated and they have lost thousands of troops and important infrastructure, whereas they've only managed to kill less than two dozen US troops and have hardly damaged US bases. Iran will be ending the war in a far weaker position whereas the US will be in the same position by the end.
>>18631778This. The fact he wasnt killed in the cultural revolution despite being identified as a capitalist roader by mao is evidence that the violence in that period is somewhat overstated.
>>18631797yeah sure, the best way to convince countries not to develop nuclear weapons is to randomly launch decapitation strikes against countries which don't yet have nuclear weapons. and then fail in toppling the regime!
>>18631893The Red Guards did come after him. His son was killed by them.
>>18631898Yes, the best way to stop a country from developing nukes and projecting power is to destroy their ability to do so. That is correct.
>>18631900let me guess, their ability to do so will be destroyed in 2 more weeks?In reality Iran will only be prevented from pursuing nuclear weapons through a deal, and the American Sun Tsu decided to pull out of a previous agreement on this exact issue, then launch a decapitation strike with no warning or provocation which didn't even work. Trust in any deal now will be low, so ran is more likely to develop nuclear weapons now than they were before.
>>18631905>let me guess, their ability to do so will be destroyed in 2 more weeks?It has already been weakened. Their most experienced leaders have been killed, thousands of experienced troops lay dead, thousands more lay injured, above ground bases have been leveled, nuclear facilities destroyed and heavily damaged, with an estimation of up to a trillion dollars in damages, with most proxies heavily damaged as well. The problem currently is that Iran has resorted to hiding equipment and personnel under mountains. Wonder why they need to hide everything if they're winning so spectacularly? US bases are still above ground after all. Other than the fact that they haven't been totally wiped out, what gives you the impression that they are doing well against the US? I see no reasonable evidence to come to that conclusion. Again, if Iran "wins", it will be a pyrrhic victory where they'll come out of the war crippled while the US carries on like nothing ever happened.>In reality Iran will only be prevented from pursuing nuclear weapons through a dealThe decades of failed diplomacy in this avenue proves otherwise.
