>>18635090
As one who frequently argues for the validity of (many) dogmas of the Church catholic, its largely because of dogma, unfortunately. Your sentiments about soul sleep and annihilationism are how I feel about hopeful universalism.

>>18635090
damn you must be very clever to have it all figured out!!

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>>18635090
Mark 9:44-48
>Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life,

Mark makes it pretty clear Hell is a place of eternal conscious torment

>>18635090
>Why have very few Christians figured out the obvious truth which is soul sleep and annihilationism?
Because that is NOT the truth and is not what the Bible teaches
>Both of those doctrines are so obviously taught in Scripture.
The Bible teaches eternal conscious torment.
>If you believe you go to Heaven or Hell immediately after death, you are saying that you consider the Second Coming and Judgment useless.
Not at all. You are very stupid.
>Life is dependent on God, you live BECAUSE of God. When you turn from God, you will perish.
True, and irrelevant.
>Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Yes, and death is defined as eternal conscious torment in Revelation at the bare minimum. Too, the rich man woke up in torment after he took his last breath.

>>18635165
>The Bible teaches eternal conscious torment.
No it doesn't.
>Not at all. You are very stupid.
Very pious of you.
>True, and irrelevant.
You do not believe this to be true, otherwise you'd accept soul sleep + annihilationism.
>death is defined as eternal conscious torment in Revelation
No it's not. I can tell you're not taking this seriously, you've provided zero verses.
>>18635158
It never says that the worm never dies, or that the fire is never extinguished. Jesus is also quoting Isaiah 66 here:
>And they shall go out and look at the dead bodies of the people who have rebelled against me, for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.
The last sentence is key, God is saying his enemies will be killed, destroyed, and forgotten and remembered with contempt for eternity. Not that you will be consciously suffering for eternity. A similar concept is in Daniel 12:
>Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Notice how life is contrasted with shame and contempt. It is both saying that the wicked will awake to annihilation, death, and that they will be remembered badly for eternity. Just as we look down on Judas with contempt now.

All of these verses clearly support annihilationism:
Matthew 10:28
John 3:16
Romans 6:23
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Philippians 3:19
2 Peter 3:7
James 4:12
Malachi 4:1,3
Matthew 3:12
Luke 3:17
Matthew 13:30,40-42
2 Peter 2:6
Hebrews 10:27
Psalm 37:20
1 Timothy 6:16
Romans 2:7
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
Revelation 22:14
Psalm 1:4,6
Obadiah 1:16

>>18635236
Revelation 20:10 describes the torment in Hell as occurring forever day and night

>>18635090
Because it’s both true. Look at what you wrote and realize that your papa and Mema are already in heaven who believed and passed on. Remember when Paul was caught up to the third heaven? He was still alive. He couldn’t even describe the feeling. John was transported directly to the visions he saw in body. The reason is because God is already there in eternity. But yes, till then from our perspective, they are still in the ground, their bodies have not resurrected from the dead yet, they are asleep. But their souls are there right now. I can’t answer your question because it’s both true at the same time that God is also in control of everything even though He gave you free will. He is omnipresent and Omniscient (also called limitless power and infinite understanding), but he is also the still small voice that Samuel heard, not the loud earthquake. God is like Carl Sagan described Him as another dimensional being where we would only see his feet because as a one dimensional being, a 3 dimensional being stepping into an1 dimensional setting would not allow us to look up and see his face. We are seeing the Creator of everything and we are 3D creatures called Man. That’s why Jesus told us to opt for only agreeing with the gospel only. And not disputing interpretations about the Bible. We find that interpretations fall within 3 different kinds anyways. Usually people go “this happens before that happens”, or “this happens only during the other thing (current)”, or they say “this happens after that happens”, turning it into pre, current, and post interptretstions. And the best thing to do is to just support people who believe any of them, but focus on Jesus Christ’s love. Which was the commandment.

"Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." Psalm 2:8 kjv

This means God gave me all the false gods for God’s use. Including Roman Catholic and ortho saints.

And those men carried me to the northern region; and they showed me there a very frightful place; and all kinds of torture and torment are in that place, cruel darkness and lightless gloom. And there is no light there, and a black fire blazes up perpetually, with a river of fire that comes out over the whole place, fire here, freezing ice there, and it dries up and it freezes; and very cruel places of detention and dark and merciless angels, carrying instruments of atrocities torturing without pity.

And I said, “Woe, woe! How very frightful this place is!” And those men said to me, “This place, Enoch, has been prepared for those who do not glorify God, who practice on the earth the sin, which is against nature, which is child corruption in the anus in the manner of Sodom, of witchcraft, enchantments, divinations, trafficking with demons, who boast about their evil deeds – (stealing, lying, insulting, coveting, resentment, fornication, murder) – and who steal the souls of men secretly, seizing the poor by the throat, taking away their possessions, enriching themselves from the possessions of others, defrauding them; who, when they are able to provide sustenance, bring about the death of the hungry by starvation; and, when they are able to provide clothing, take away the last garment of the naked; who do not acknowledge their Creator, but bow down to idols which have no souls, which can neither see nor hear, vain gods; constructing images, and bowing down to vile things made by hands – for all these this place has been prepared as an eternal reward.”

>>18635246
>And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I don't see how this supports your belief that all sinners will be tortured by God for eternity. Tormented day and night forever and ever is symbolic language, as is the entirety of Revelation. Do you genuinely believe the Devil is a dragon with seven heads and ten horns? Even if it weren't symbolic, it still says nothing about all sinners, just those particular beings. Secondly, your interpretation contradicts what Revelation 20:14-15 clearly says
>Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire, and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
And Rev. 21:8
>But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the sexually immoral, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
How do ECT people reconcile the Bible's very clear teaching of a "Second Death" with eternal conscious torment? That's my question to you.

>>18635285
Because what would be the point of mentioning the fact the worm dieth not and the torment lasts day and night forever and ever if actually those things didn't apply to the human souls tossed therein?

1 Enoch 1:9 says:
And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

And Jude 14-15 quotes it word for word:

"It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”"

>>18635294
1. The Book of Enoch is a fraud.
2. The quote from Jude has no relevance to the topic at hand.

>>18635090
Early Christians did believe in annihiliationism until Christianity was co-opted by the Roman Empire and ECT was pushed to keep people obedient to the state through fear. Christians must reject all forms of idolatry, which includes state worship.

>>18635318
Verse?

>>18635165
>Not at all. You are very stupid.
insulting people is literally a sin. Stop doing it.

>Matthew 5:22
>But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
>1 Peter 3:9
>Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
>James 1:26
>If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
>Proverbs 11:12
>He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace.

It doesn't matter how right or justified ou feel, it's still a sin.

And those men took me from there, and they brought me up to the third heaven, and set me down. Then I looked downward, and I saw Paradise. And that place is inconceivably pleasant.

And I saw the trees in full flower. And their fruits were ripe and pleasant-smelling, with every food in yield and giving off profusely a pleasant fragrance.
And in the midst of them was the tree of life, at that place where YAHU takes a rest when he goes into paradise. And that tree is indescribable for pleasantness and fine fragrance, and more beautiful than any other created thing that exists.

And from every direction it has an appearance which is good-looking and crimson, and with the form of fire. And it covers the whole of Paradise. And it has something of every orchard tree and of every fruit. And its root is in Paradise at the exit that leads to the earth.

And paradise is in between the corruptible and the incorruptible. And two streams come forth, one a source of honey and milk, and a source which produces oil and wine. And it is divided into 4 parts, and they go around with a quiet movement.

And they come out into the paradise of Edem, between the corruptible and the incorruptible. And from there they pass along and divide into 40 parts. And it proceeds in descent along the earth.

And there is no unfruitful tree there, and every tree is well fruited, and every place is blessed.

And there are 300 angels, very bright, who look after Paradise; and with never-ceasing voice and pleasant singing they worship YAHU every day and hour. And I said, “How very pleasant is this place!” And those men said to me:

>>18635332
“This place, Enoch, has been prepared for the righteous, who endure all manner of offence from those that exasperate their souls, who suffer every kind of calamity in their life, and who avert their eyes from injustice, and who carry out righteous judgment, and who give bread to the hungry, and who cover the naked with clothing, and who lift up the fallen and who help the injured and the orphans, and who walk without a defect before the face of YAHU, and who worship him only.

For them this place has been prepared as an eternal inheritance.”

>>18635331
You're not my brother. You're not my neighbor. So those verses are irrelevant. Also, it is lost on no one that you are an holier-than-thou. I recommend growing up, or getting a lobotomy.

>>18635332
>YAHU
>IT'S A ME, MARIO!

>>18635236
>Not at all. You are very stupid.
>Very pious of you.
being passive-aggressive is literally a sin, stop doing it

>Proverbs 26:24-26
>He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him; When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart. Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.
>Proverbs 10:18
>He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

>>18635236
>You do not believe this to be true, otherwise you'd accept soul sleep + annihilationism.
Argument?

>>18635338
>passive-aggressive
I wasn't. I was being sarcastic. I understand the impulse to insult and want to hurt other people; it makes the flesh feel good, but it is not good for the soul.

>>18635348
You're preaching heresy and you're whining about me calling you stupid. You're stupid.

>>18635335
>You're not my brother. You're not my neighbor
What was the point of the parable of the Good Samaritan with this interpretation? Samaritans weren't just strangers to Jews but actually hostile against them, their enemies.

>Matthew 5:43-44
>Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

>Also, it is lost on no one that you are an holier-than-thou
How does one go about trying to help others not sin while not being holier-than-thou or coming across like that? I genuinely struggle with this and don't know what the answer is, especially given that seeing someone sinning and not doing anything is also itself a sin

>>18635358
>How does one go about trying to help others not sin while not being holier-than-thou or coming across like that?
2 steps:
1. Stop calling people out for imaginary sins. You're still struggling with that.
2. Don't criticize someone for a sin with which you yourself struggle.

>>18635090
Reminder, if (You) wish eternal torment existed over annihilationism you are evil for wishing eternal suffering on those less morally lucky than yourself

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>>18635090
>If you believe you go to Heaven or Hell immediately after death, you are saying that you consider the Second Coming and Judgment useless
It isn't useless if the immediate afterlife is aimed at justice, while the final judgment is aimed at universal restoration of creation via either annihilation of the remaining wicked souls or such thorough purification of the remaining wicked souls that it may as well be called annihilation. That's apparently how Zoroastrianism combines an immediate afterlife belief and an end-times resurrection belief (siding with purification rather than annihilation)
https://www.worldhistory.org/Chinvat_Bridge/

Though perrsonally I still think reincarnation, including the possibility of temporary stays in hellish or heavenly realms and the possibility of getting off the wheel entirely, is by far the least autistic afterlife system. Then you don't have to cope with the gross disproportion of God handing out immortality and death, or eternal joy and eternal torment, based only on what you choose in a brief, at best several decades-long life where different people can have wildly different circumstantial influences acting on them.

>>18635371
>God is evil
No.

>>18635335
You are no more a Christian in the life of Christ than a heathen a publican, or any Pharisee.
Jesus warned you that people like you will never inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Heretic, you have never heard the true gospel and your false shepherd and blind guide is leading you into the pit.


43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

>>18635401
>You are no more a Christian in the life of Christ than a heathen a publican, or any Pharisee.
I am a born-again child of God. 0/1
>Jesus warned you that people like you will never inherit the kingdom of heaven.
No, he promised that people like me will live with him forever. 0/2
>Heretic,
LARP. 0/3
>you have never heard the true gospel
I have, I can even link it to you. 0/4
>and your false shepherd and blind guide is leading you into the pit.
Congratulations. You just blasphemed Jesus Christ. 0/5

>>18635383
I guess the hardest thing about accepting reincarnation for an Abrahamic would be defending the typical memory loss between lives. If reincarnation is an impersonal process, then you can say that's just the way it is. Or, if you think everyone is part of God, then you can go the route where God entertains himself by forgetting who he is, and that could just as well extend to fogetting between lives. Or if you think the creator is somewhat malevolent and trying to trap us here, then he has a motive for causing widespread memory loss.

But for the Abrahamic God as normally conceived, it's hard to see why he would make it work like that.

>>18635405
>>18635405
The sermon on the mount directly contradicts you.
It's beyond obvious you literally don't know even the first thing about what Jesus taught.

You're simply not a Christian.
And one so unregenerate is clearly not "born again", because if you had been you would be a new creature instead of being so conformed to the world as you are.

You are still a slave to the world, it's obvious based on how you speak about others that you do nothing differently than the heathens and publicans Jesus spoke of.
He is speaking about you, who is not crucified unto the world and cling still to it's rags rather than receive clean linen.

He who says he abides in him ought to walk as he walked.
That's what your Bible says, and it's exactly what you deny.

It's so painfully clear you have nothing in common with Jesus, you couldn't even imagine being conformed to his image or becoming like him.
As the Father sent his Son, with the authority to forgive sins (which faithless claimed Jesus could not do) so too did Jesus send his apostles to forgive sins by the power of the Holy Spirit (which likewise faithless claim to this day they cannot do).

Indeed, in this very same sermon on the mount Jesus says that if you do not forgive others neither will you be forgiven.
You are a heretic, unclean animal and vulture, and deny core teachings of the Christian faith because of your hardened heart and pride. Your blind guides have lied to you, and you do not know Christ or his church.

>>18635438
people need to disconnect this current experience from their actual selves. Thinking this experience defines you is like thinking Arthur Morgan just because you played Red Dead 2 for a couple hundred hours.

That's not who you are, and neither is this. This is just an experience to test what you are actually made of. A series of stimulation events to read adn gauge your thought processes

>>18635442
Impressive hand waving. Now, what color is your skin? Shit brown, peradventure?

>>18635158
That's where your body goes when everyone else gets bodily resurrected. It's a burning garbage dump. Hell isn't a thing in Mark. The faithful get resurrected into the kingdom of heaven, everyone else just stays dead.

>>18635462
Maybe if you keep telling yourself that then you won't have to go to the burn pit.

>>18635470
It's what the text says. Jesus quotes Isaiah 66:24 in that section of Mark. Maybe read that one before blaspheming so much.
Your body will definitely get eaten by the worm if you keep talking like this.

>>18635476
>works salvation
Ah okay, so you kind of know that you're going to Hell and this is all an extensive coping mechanism to deal with that fact.
>Maybe it won't be as bad as the Bible says!
Oh, it will be. You're going to suffer like you can't even imagine. Keep going. This is great.

John 5:27-29

And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

>>18635479
Read The Rich and the Kingdom of God in Mark 10

>>18635479
do you think enjoying the suffering of the wicked is holy?

>>18635490
Okay, I just read it. Now what?

>>18635442
Yep these people never speak about Christ outside of Him being their free ticket out of hell
They worship hell as an idol and put all their attention and fear into the land of the devil and care nothing about participating in the legacy of Christ

>>18635494
Do you think you will be allowed in the Kingdom of God?

>>18635500
100%.

>>18635499
>They worship hell as an idol and put all their attention and fear into the land of the devil and care nothing about participating in the legacy of Christ
Holy hell, that is mad funny. Thanks for the laugh, shitskin. Best I had all day.

>>18635503
Judging by the things you post I think it's doubtful, but whatever lets you sleep at night

>>18635508
Do you think you will be allowed in the Kingdom of God?

>>18635505
Not an argument
All you do is worship hell and spread the gospel of the devil
You never speak of doing good because you don't want good to be done; you call it works as a way of preventing having to do anything good in this world, yet never speak against doing evil
You spread the gospel of the devil and will share his fate if you don't correct your vile mouth

>>18635511
That's for God to decide

>>18635513
That's not an answer to my question. Do YOU think he will decide to allow you?

>>18635511
>>18635508
you will be both be allowed into the kingdom of God. I can guarantee it. Simply believe with your heart and profess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savoir. That he died for your sins. And that he was resurrected 3 days later.

>>18635515
I won't blaspheme and claim to know what God decides.

For you I suggest reading Matthew 7:22-23 as a parting gift.

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>>18635479
>>18635503
>>18635505
what do you make of this passage from the beloved disciple?

>1 John 3
>2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
>3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
>4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
>5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
>6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
>7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
>8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
>9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

>>18635512
These people love hate, they do not love. Yes, I do want to see the wicked destroyed, but it's blatant from reading what these people write that they don't care about the wicked receiving righteous judgment but rather they enjoy the idea of being in a class "above" everyone else. It's narcissistic, prideful.

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>>18635535
Okay, so you've chosen death and an eternity in unrelenting agony. Cool!
>Matthew 7:22-23
You mean this verse? Yeah, it's talking about you. Not me.
Oh, and one further note on the "rich" question. I'm rich. I come from a rich family. You probably can't even imagine how comfortable my life is. I drive a BMW and wear Creed cologne. All of my electronics are Apple. Just this week I've received over $10,000 worth of gifts. You should see the place I'm staying right now, it's like a slice of paradise on earth, and I get to vacation here for free as much as I want because I have a rich uncle. That's when I'm not living in one of the richest cities in the world. I'm not going to tell you where I've gone to school, but you wouldn't believe me if I did. That's how rich I am. And the best part? When I leave this life I'm going straight to heaven, which is going to be even better.

Oh, and I'm white.

Meanwhile you're probably brown and just scraping by above subsistence level, but you're going to burn. Why? Because you're trusting in your works, while I'm just accepting the free gift of salvation. You're trusting in yourself, while I'm trusting in Jesus. You bring up it being hard for the rich to enter heaven? Well, no one can enter heaven. They need Jesus to do it for them. And yes, many rich losers are going straight to the burn pit with brown rodents like yourself because in a way, they are trusting in the same thing as you: Themselves. They are just trusting more in their money or some concept of their own value to save them, while you are trusting in
>I work hard, and I love my abuela, guey
Or whatever retarded scheme goes through beaner minds. I don't care too much to know the sordid details, but I do find it extremely, extremely funny that despite your false modesty you're actually bursting with pride, while a rich white man like myself is the truly humble one.

>>18635564
I hope for your sake you're trolling

>>18635567
Huh?

>>18635564
the fruits of Christianity

>>18635659
>blessings and heaven are the fruits of Christianity
You understand, how delightful.

>>18635090
>semitic nonsense
meds

>>18635665
I understand that Christianity is just arrogance. Enjoy worshiping a brown man lol

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>>18635564
>20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
>21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
>22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
>23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
>24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
>25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
>26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

>43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
>44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
>45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
>46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
>47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
>48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
>49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

I wonder why he said all this when they already believed

>>18635703
>I wonder why he said all this when they already believed
Yeah, Catholics aren't really known for their reading comprehension. For starters, that sermon was directed to a general audience, not only to saved people. But I'm not really sure what your point is. What does Jesus say here which contradicts anything I've said in this thread?

>>18635721
If being a good and humble person who does good things and doesn't do bad things isn't necessary to get into Heaven, why even say any of it at all to anyone?
>46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
What is He even talking about here, in your wordview? In your interpretation of the gospel? What even are the things which he is saying to do, since in your version it's where you don't need to do anything?
>But I'm not really sure what your point is
My point is that you do not follow Jesus' commandments in your behavior towards other people and internally in your own opinion of yourself, obviously
>What does Jesus say here which contradicts anything I've said in this thread?
You were boasting about being rich and having a wealthy and successful worldly life which Jesus obviously condemns
>an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh
your mouth has speaketh much evil in this thread towards others

>>18635781
>If being a good and humble person who does good things and doesn't do bad things isn't necessary to get into Heaven, why even say any of it at all to anyone?
Because there is more to life than just getting into Heaven.
>What is He even talking about here, in your wordview?
That obedience means more than empty words. It has nothing to do with the gospel. We SHOULD follow every word of the Bible. There is a difference between what we SHOULD do and what we MUST do to be saved. Did you watch Pastor Shelley's video? There's not much point in trying to explain this to you over text when you aren't even saved, when you don't have the holy ghost to interpret the Bible for you
>My point is that you do not follow Jesus' commandments in your behavior towards other people and internally in your own opinion of yourself, obviously
Cool.
>You were boasting about being rich and having a wealthy and successful worldly life which Jesus obviously condemns
Not really. I was highlighting the fact that I'm saved despite my wealth and you're cursed despite your poverty, because I humbly accept what Jesus did and you shit all over it and insist on working your own way to heaven. You can do as many vain, dead works as you like, and they won't wipe away the stain of your countless sins.

>>18635721
>Catholics aren't really known for their reading comprehension
since your reading comprehension is better then, have a read of these excerpts from early church leaders

>Both baptism is one and the Holy Spirit is one and the Church, founded by Christ the Lord upon Peter, by a source and principle of unity, is one also. Hence it results that with them (heretics and schismatics) all things are futile and false, nothing that which they have done ought to be approved by us... And the blessed apostle John also, keeping the commandments and precepts of the Lord, has laid it down in his epistle and said, ‘You have heard that Antichrist shall come; even now there are many antichrists, whereby we know that it is the last time (1 John 2:18). Wherefore we who are with the Lord and maintain the unity of the Lord, and according to his condescension administer his priesthood in the Church, should repudiate and reject and regard as profane whatever his adversaries and the antichrists do
>we ought by all means to maintain the unity of the Catholic Church and not to give way to the enemies of the faith and truth in any respect. Neither must we prescribe the form of custom, but overcome opposite custom by reason. For neither did Peter, whom first the Lord chose and upon whom he built his Church despise Paul because he had previously been a persecutor of the Church, but admitted the counsel of truth that Paul gave furnishing thus an illustration to us both of concord and of patience
> - Cyprian of Carthage

>we put to confusion all those who assemble in unauthorized meetings, by indicating that Tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul...it is a matter of necessity that every church agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority
> - St Irenaus of Lyons

>>18635801
>have a read of these excerpts from early church leaders
No thanks, I'm not interested in what your EPIC BEVRD MVN du jour has to say. I have the King James Bible.

>>18635791
>You can do as many vain, dead works as you like, and they won't wipe away the stain of your countless sins
that's what the point of being baptized into Christ's sacrifice and the point of confession is

>>18635809
Confessing your sins to a pedophile in a dress isn't going to help either, and water can't wash away your sins. Go ahead, I know you have more heresies ready to spew forth. I'd love for you to share and max out your damnation.

>>18635807
>King James Bible
>still has book of Daniel prophesying the rise of Antiochus IV and the Maccabean revolt
>doesn't have the books of Maccabees
explain this
also
>idolizes and follows King James Version of the Bible
>isn't even an Anglican
>even though whole point of KJV is that it was commissioned by King James, head of the Anglican church (which was just invented by Henry VIII to get around being able to remarry (which is a sin)), for Anglicans
>based on just whatever translation and books King James himself preferred
>isn't even the first English version of the Bible anyway
make it make sense

>>18635814
>Matthew 28:19-20
>Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
>Matthew 16:19
>And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
I wonder what he was talking about

>>18635837
>explain this
1. Dual-fulfilment.
2. I've read book of Maccabees and it's clearly not written by God.
>make it make sense
1. I'm not British and I don't live in the UK, so becoming an Anglican makes zero sense. I can't speak to their theology.
2. You're still crying about King Henry, hilarious. Cry another 500 years, you'll have plenty of time in Hell.
3. The KJV committee translated all your apocryphal books too. You're braindead.
4. Finish this argument:
>The King James Bible wasn't the first English translation
>Therefore [___________________]
And then consider a lobotomy.

>>18635845
>I wonder what he was talking about
Ask him before he tosses you into the trash pit.

Alright heretics I'm going to go soak in the hot tub for a bit. Not sure if I'll be back tonight. If not, enjoy Hell.

>>18635848
>1. Dual-fulfilment.
>2. I've read book of Maccabees and it's clearly not written by God.
every other prophecy in the Bible gets fulfilled later in the Bible (except for Revelation, which is why it's the last book) so it would be strange if a book made a prophecy regarding something and then it just timeskips to after it happened and the reader never gets to read about the events of the prophecy being fulfilled or even know what it was referring to without having outside information.
>The KJV committee translated all your apocryphal books too
they also translated the old testament in the KJV by relying on the Masoretic text which was written by Rabbinic/Talmudic Jews in the medieval period retroactively changing old testament scriptures to suit their beliefs

The King James Bible wasn't the first English translation therefore I don't understand why you venerate it specifically and think it's the only version God intended to use to communicate his word to English-speaking people in
Also there was no complete Bible for the first 300 years of the church's history and it was over a thousand years later until the KJV came into existence, via a breakaway sect from the original church that only came into existence so that a king could break Jesus' commandment about not remarrying and commit repeated adultery; if the KJV is actually as important and necessary for salvation as you seem to act like it is then I don't understand why it happened that way

>>18635898
>every other prophecy in the Bible gets fulfilled later in the Bible (except for Revelation, which is why it's the last book) so it would be strange if a book made a prophecy regarding something and then it just timeskips to after it happened and the reader never gets to read about the events of the prophecy being fulfilled or even know what it was referring to without having outside information.
The dual fulfillment is the abomination of desolation mentioned in Matthew and detailed in Revelation. This is not "outside information", it is all contained within God's word.
>they also translated the old testament in the KJV by relying on the Masoretic text which was written by Rabbinic/Talmudic Jews in the medieval period retroactively changing old testament scriptures to suit their beliefs
Not so. God used those Christkillers and their superstitions to preserve his word.
>The King James Bible wasn't the first English translation therefore I don't understand why you venerate it specifically and think it's the only version God intended to use to communicate his word to English-speaking people in
Well, it is superior to those other translations. Not that those other translations were pure garbage like the modern versions are. The KJV built on the Tinsdale and the Bishop's Bible, which were good translations done in good faith, but which didn't have the polish and clarity of the King James. Which "version" would you recommend? I'd bet 5000 dollars you aren't carrying about the Bishop's. Besides:
>breakaway sect
Why even pretend like you care what the Bible says in the first place? You've decided that you esteem God's word as so much dung. I guess the demons inside of you just can't resist spewing out heresy. Or maybe you are the author of these perversions. Who cares, I just recommend that you snap your own neck with a rope before you get the chance to make your part of Hell hotter. Up to you whether to take my sage advice. I'm off to bed.

>>18635957
>The dual fulfilment is the abomination of desolation mentioned in Matthew and detailed in Revelation
I'm not just talking about this, the fourth beast in Daniel represents the Seleucid empire and the talking little horn is Antiochus IV
>breakaway sect
>Why even pretend like you care what the Bible says in the first place?
there is no way to make sense of the passage where Jesus says He is founding His church on Peter and gives Him the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and says that Hades will never overtake this church, or when Jesus later tells Peter to feed His sheep and tend His lambs, as an Anglican or any kind of protestant

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>>18635986

>>18635989
Mexicans, as far as I can tell, are a pious and happy people and their zeal is to be admired. Even if I really was a Mexican this still isn't a counterargument to anything I have said and simply reveals you obsessed and attached to vain things of this world, like ethnicity, and cast judgements easily based upon physical and material things and not spiritual things.

>>18635090
The Second Coming is your realization that you are the Christ. Everyone is the Christ, God's only Son. This dream of separation we are dreaming is just a dream. The Bible tells you specifically that Adam fell asleep and it does not tell you that he wake up.

>>18635986
>>18635957
nevermind, forgive me anon, after looking more into the Catholic church I am no longer certain whether or not it's the true church, forgive me anon. Vactican II is just too troubling the more you learn about it as well as the Donation of Constantine document and how the papacy came to be.
Perhaps Jesus alone really is the only way. Maybe I will read this KJV more that you love so much afterall.

>>18636242
Okay. You don't have to apologize to me. Enjoy the King James. Don't forget to watch the Pastor Shelley video.