Bumping this TRVTHNVKE

>>18636857
An evil-less eternity is a gift he will only give to those who rejected evil while evil existed.

The fact you take place in dumb conversations is trolling you enough.

>>18636857
>God has to adhere to rules
nope

>>18637397
Sounds pretty evil from him
>>18637404
>god chose to become evil
At least you admit it

>>18636857
Who the fuck said anything is inherently good or evil? What makes something good or evil is our relationship to it and our perception of it, goodness is something we create, goodness is manifesting itself through our perception and judgment of it but nothing within of itself is inherently good or evil. Societies have rapidly changed what good or evil meant, and what is good now would be considered evil in a past society and vice versa.

Haven’t you learnt anything of the story of Adam and Eve? That the illusion of duality is the illusion of death? God is ‘good’, but what do you think goodness means? ‘Know good and evil, like God’, God is judging itself, God is judgment, man is created in God’s image because like God we judge. God is creating itself through us, God is the goodness we create.

>>18637820
>Who the fuck said anything is inherently good or evil?
Religious people like you and their god
>God is judgment
Took less than a paragraph to contradict yourself kek

>>18636857
explain to me how choice is possible without differentiation?

>>18637834
Judgment is the assertion of meaning and value in regards to context not a symptom of innate morality, reading this sentence is judgment because you are judging what it means in contrast to the all the possibilities of what it could mean
>>18637834
Why do you think they are like me? Because I have a concept I call God and they too? What does Aiyn Soph have to do with a literalist understanding of the Mormon conception of God for example?

>>18636857
>>18637839
For you to have a system of meaning, you need differentiation of states, and not only do you need differentiation of states, you need volumes/levels of differentiation within those states. How can you know what is good if you do not know what is evil? How can you know something is more good or more evil than the other without different volumes or levels? Everything in the world exists for a reason: to have a system of meaning and growth.

>>18637846
>how can you know what being alive is without knowing what being dead is?
This is how retarded you sound

>>18637849
Never actually addressed what I said and thus proving my point.

>>18637853
I perfectly addressed what you said. You seem under the impression that you need evil to exist to be good because being good without evil is a) either impossible or b) you need the existence of itself for good to make sense as a concept (which most christcucks would disagree btw, see "evil is absence of good cope)
For both of these arguments you are also denying the omnipotence of god and haven't addressed OPs statement in general, unless you wanna go the full heresy route and claim evil is as old as god

>>18637849
>how can you know what being alive is without knowing what being dead is?
I mean yeah, that’s the point. Life and death are too sides of the same coin, death is a sacred thing

>>18637858
So you admit you literally don't know what being alive is like since you never experienced death?

>>18637857
You are too attached to the idea of evil, I am not joking when I ask you to see the beauty and value of suffering

>>18637859
You are assuming we never experienced death, but we know of death as a reality thus we are aware of the value of life even if from our perspective we haven’t experienced death - we experience death in our existence in a world of it’s inevitability

>>18637862
>You are assuming we never experienced death
That assumption is completely valid since you literally don't know what being dead is like unless you're some supernatural being
>we know of death as a reality thus we are aware of the value of life even if from our perspective we haven’t experienced death
>we know of evil as a reality thus we are aware of the value of good even if from our perspective we haven’t experienced evil
Thanks for admitting god just made people commit evil because he's a spiteful retard instead of opting for this version of heaven

>>18637857
Evil existing in the world has nothing to do with God's own character. If you actually knew where evil originates from, you would understand this, but because you lack knowledge and you're not able to humble yourself, you will never understand this. "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."

Evil doesn't come from God. God's character, revealed through His one and only Son, is: love, compassion, justice, mercy, and faithfulness. Now tell me, are people living according to God's character? No. Evil originates when you are specifically not living according to His character. Why are you then going to blame God for evil when you have a human making a free choice to not live according to what God is? It sounds like you would rather have a world where free choice is not possible? That's interesting coming from someone opposed to God. The last days have come here, and here you are arguing about things you are wrong about. Turn before it is too late.

>>18637873
The Father is patient, and anyone who comes to him, he will not drive away, as it is said, "I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

You will ask me, "Who is he?" He is the one who is. The one and only true God, he is the eternal life that gives life to everyone. He is the way, the truth, and the life. He is the way because you were created in his image. He is the truth because everything was made through him and for him. And he is the life because, if you live by the truth, you will have eternal life in him, with him.

He came into the world, but the world did not receive him. He sent his Son to reveal him, but the world did not recognize him.

The Father stands in front of the mirror; the image in the mirror is him, but he is not the image in the mirror. So it is with the Father and the Son. Through the Son, the Father made himself known.

Or again, it is like the sun and the moon: if you look at the sun, you will become blind, but if you look at the moon, you are seeing the sun's light. The moon's light is not its own; the light belongs to the sun, and by looking at the moon, you are able to receive it. So does the Son make the invisible Father known to you. This is why "The Father is greater than I" and "I and the Father are one" are both true.

The same way the Son made the invisible Father known, so are we called to make him known. Indeed, you were created in his image. "What does it mean?" To share in his nature: love, compassion, justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are his true nature.

In that day, everything false will pass away, but the truth will never pass away. Therefore, be sure to make the truth your practice and love your nature.

>>18637870
Heaven and hell are two sides of the same coin, they are closer than you might think. Do you think heaven is experiencing a hedonistic paradise when others suffer? Many billionaires are doing that now, are they in heaven? Heaven is a place you go to be rewarded, it’s a state of awareness and realisation of the oneness of all being and existence, it is liberation from death because it is the realisation that nothing divides death and life, there is no heaven without the appreciation of universal suffering as much as universal joy

In ancient societies soldiers raped women and threw the enemy’s children against rocks, they believed that this was a good thing and that not doing this was evil. You are assuming too many things about good and evil, like those are static concepts that just objectively exist, you are taking things that have been constructed by circumstances upon circumstances for granted. What’s the point of existence if everything was already objectively decided? We are all God observing itself, look up Lila. You can’t point to a distinct thing and call it God either, that’s the entire point of idolatry, you can’t confuse the map with the territory, you are trying to imagine God with something like an identity and an opinion like a human might have and it’s stupid, too many wars have started because people confuse an image of God in their head with God, God is emptiness and infinite potential realising itself, part of the entire point of Christ being God is that Christ is reality creating God - the entire point of Christianity is that we become God

>>18637882
Really, the Son could be said to be only God there is, and the Father is far beyond anything we could truly call God or the Father - or anything at all

>>18637882
*isn’t a place you go to be rewarded

When Jesus said sacrifice all your money because you would be rewarded in heaven, do you think that he meant you would be compensated in the afterlife? No, the sacrifice and the difference you make in the lives of others and humanity as a whole IS the reward within of itself

File: epicfedoras dilemma.png (326 KB, 1663x1054)

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>>18636857
Every midwit village atheist thinks this lame "conundrum" is something witty, not realizing their own unspoken assumptions that underpin it. That benevolence can only mean subservience to their wordly whims.

It actually works well as a Buddhist koan, because every objection to an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god is proof of fixations that prevent enlightenment.

>>18637895
>That benevolence can only mean subservience to their wordly whims
That is your assumption, not OPs. Nowhere does OPs argument imply that
Your post is thus entirely meaningless seethe

>>18637404
God is unchanging and perfected, and while not being obligated to follow rules by a higher power than Himself, naturally chooses some things and eschews other things in a way we could codify as rules because of His inherent nature.

>>18637873
>Evil doesn't come from God
Meanwhile, your holy book:
>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Christcucks trying not to commit heresy attempt #162846457

>>18637903
>Nowhere does OPs argument imply that
Wrong. The "dilemma" is meaningless without that assumption.

>>18637907
Why would I go to the Old Testament to know the truth if Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

>>18637908
>y-you just cannot possibly comprehend what god wants!!! Therefore any criticism is le invalid!
Weakest and most pathetic copout that godtards have

>>18637910

So let's just ignore the entirety of the old testament then and anything it says in it? Or do we just pick and choose things from based on whatever your church says?.
Either Way. More heresy.

>>18637915
"You have heard that it was said, but I tell you"

"Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

No, I am actually reading everything through Christ because He is the whole truth.

>>18637919
You still have not responded to the fact that your textbook says that evil comes from god. So is your textbook wrong or did god create evil? Which is it?

>>18637919
Please quote the New Testament passage on Jesus discarding isaiah 45:7

>>18637921
I literally just did.
>>18637910

>>18637921
>>18637928
If He says, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father," if I want to know what God is like, why would I go to earlier revelation when I have God here in front of me? "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

>>18637929
No, you did not. You replied with two non-relevant quotes about moses and a non-sensical comment about "reading everything through christ." Neither of which answers the question.

Has your mind been so warped and deluded by religiosity that you can no longer answer a simple, straightforward question? I'll tell you what, I'll make it easy for you, just select the option that you believe:

a.) God created evil as per the bible
b.) The bible is wrong, god did not create evil.

>>18637933
Why would I put Isaiah and Jesus on the table and say, "Which one of these wins?" if I have Jesus, who says, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father," and, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I am not here to argue for the Bible; I am here to testify about the one and only true God who was revealed through Christ.

>>18637940
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your brain on religion. It renders you completely unable to think rationally and plunges you deep into ignorance and delusions. You, my friend, are lost to reality and live in a fantasy.

>>18637946
You are like someone who is given evidence that doesn't clearly point to the thief at first, then later the thief comes to you himself and admits to doing the crime and gives you all the evidence about the crime, and then you go, "But see this evidence I have here." I do not care about what some verse in Isaiah says when I have Christ, who claims to be the truth himself: "Let God be true, and every human being a liar."

OP is a demon. Stop arguing with him. He's here only to frustrate you.

>>18637910
Because it does not literally mean that believing the words of Jesus of Nazareth is the only way to the truth, nor did he mean that knowing about or having any faith in Jesus of Nazareth is the only way to the truth, it simply means that he is the universal ‘ the way and the truth and the life.’ not that the universal ‘ the way and the truth and the life.’ is him

>>18638088
"No one comes to the Father except through me." He says it pretty plainly if you want to see it.

>>18638088
What I mean to say is, Christians aren’t as relevant to Christianity as they think they are, being Christian or not is completely irrelevant to Christianity and the whole point it’s getting across, Jesus hasn’t necessarily anything to do with Christians at all

>>18636857
morality is just a social animals preferences, minds cant exist without brains,
religion is incoherent

>>18638094
well, semitic religions are incoherent. eastern religions seem to understand our existence a bit more

>>18638092
Yeah, I am saying that you are too blind to understand what he means not that what it’s saying isn’t true. Christ is man’s evolutionary fate if you will, Christ is God created in man’s image, you think evolution is a mere coincidence? It’s all about evolution, evolution that will go beyond mere survival of the fittest, even the concept of the elect falls under this. But don’t fall into an elitist mindset, we are all burning in Gehenna so we are all the wheat being separated from the chaff. What is man but a bunch of animistic spirits creating the illusion of one being? There is no part of you that is not of the gods. What is the multiplicity of being throughout the universe but oneness creating the illusion of many?

File: 0037638218_25.jpg (56 KB, 467x700)

56 KB JPG

Evil is defined by your point of reference even as a selfish action.
So anything good for you is Evil.
You now know...

>>18638100
Yeah, I definitely am too blind to understand you. When I want to understand Jesus, I look at Jesus, reality, and truth, because they're all one and the same thing. I am not making up arbitrary metaphysical models and adding what Jesus could mean inside that model. Jesus himself is the model, and everything else should be understood through him since he is the perfect manifestation of truth.

>>18638100
Furthermore, none of this has anything to do with believing in Jesus of Nazerath or knowing who is at all. Many similar concepts found throughout other religions, such as Krishna, not quite the same nor do they carry the same message but if two people believed in the validity of both Jesus and Krishna the open-minded Hindu would say that Jesus is Krishna in disguise, the Christian would say that Krishna is Jesus in disguise - who is more true?

>>18638109
If that’s the case then why limit Jesus to knowing about or having any faith in Christianity or the gospels? Jesus can’t be so universal if he is limited to those who know about a religion that only has had so much reach and only existed for such a limited time

>>18638112
The sun is the light that gives life to the earth; in the same way, God is the eternal life that gives life to everyone. If you look at the sun, you'll become blind. For this reason, He told Moses, "No one can see Me and live." How, then, can you receive His light?

The moon has no light of its own; its light belongs to the sun, and by looking at the moon, you are seeing the sun's light. In the same way, God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that through Him, you could receive His light. If, then, you want to know God, you must know His Son, as He said, "Only the Father knows the Son, and only the Son knows the Father, and those whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."

The Son and the Father are like the image in the mirror and the one who stands in front of it. God stands in front of the mirror; the image in the mirror is Him, but He is not the image in the mirror. The image in the mirror is His Son, whom He sent into the world to reveal Him. This is why "the Father is greater than I" and "I and the Father are one" are both true.

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

>>18638112
Furthermore, one could say that Jesus is a copy of the story of Osiris, another that Osiris is a timeless echo of Jesus throughout time. Another could claim that Jesus is just a copy of Dionysus and that Dionysus was in fact a real person that Jesus was based off, another could claim that the themes of Dionysus were an echo or a prophecy if you will of Jesus. The thing is, it is all timeless and central in its own way, you could say that the life of Jesus is the centre of all existence and everything else is just an echo of that archetype, that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is the actual first and last thing in existence in symbol and in reality and everything else is just the justification for it, another would say that Jesus is just another echo of another archetype

>>18638118
I don’t believe I contradicted any of this

>>18638123
I don't think you did, but the problem is that you seem to think Jesus is one among many, when he is the one and only Son.

>>18638124
It all is a matter of perspective

>>18638129
The reason every other belief or ideology has things compatible with Jesus is because they all originate from the one and same source, but the difference is that Jesus Christ is the whole truth. Every other belief or ideology has a partial truth, and they treat this partial as the whole. Jesus is the whole, and when you stop trying to fit Jesus into something else and look at everything else through Jesus, you finally understand why the patterns in the world emerge, because everything was created through him and for him.

>>18638124
>le one and only
>majority of humanity doesn't know about Jesus for literal centuries
Lmao

>>18638129
Why do you think there are so many stories about a prince who saves the princess from the dragon? The dragon is Satan, and the princess is the bride, God's faithful people, and the prince is the bridegroom, Jesus Christ.

>>18638138
The word for serpent in Hebrew and messiah both have the same value in Hebrew, the word for serpent does indeed have a connotation that links it with lucifer for that word also means shining one or bronze, and is linked to lucifer or Venus the morning star (Venus is traditionally linked to bronze), lucifer is Venus the morning star while people used to think that Venus rising as the morning star and falling as the evening star were different planets when they were one and the same, Jesus is also called lucifer, one could compare the concept of Christ and anti-Christ to Hegel’s dialectic method (not actually from Hegel as we think of it but whatever) were both are necessary for the other, Venus is linked to Ishtar who is known as the queen of heaven (Ishtar was a god who worship rivalled YHVH, but YHVH eventually won over in the long slow development of Judaism) but that doesn’t mean Ishtar is supposed to be bad all caanite gods were essentially absorbed as aspects of YHVH and Venus/neztach is a sephirot in the Kabbalah for example, Venus as archetype is Mother Earth, expression higher things in tangible existence creating something beautiful, emotional expression, self-expression, love and desire for union, Jesus died on Friday the day of Venus

A side point to our conversations, but it is all very interesting

>>18638161
Believe me, we could talk about this for hours. Once I began to look at the world through Christ, I began to see these patterns everywhere, even Old Testament prophecies repeating in literature, games, and movies, etc. It goes much deeper than you first think. Jesus himself says, "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

>>18638169
I recommend you read Vallis by Philip K, Dick

>>18638173
I'll look into that.

The closest thing I can describe to what I mean is "Christ is the generative principle behind reality."

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

>>18637911
nobody that is even slightly educated in theology cops out to “God is incomprehensible so” you are just arguing with low tiered retards.

>>18638173
Abraham is told to sacrifice Isaac, his "one and only son." Abraham is also called "the father of all nations." Abraham is represented as an image of God in the story. He is told to sacrifice Isaac, so he goes, and as he is about to sacrifice his one and only son, God stops him. Then there appears a goat stuck in a thorn bush, and he sacrifices it instead. This is a reference to the crown of thorns, and the reason God stops Abraham from sacrificing Isaac is because he is going to later do what he commanded Abraham to do: when Christ is sacrificed on the cross, God's one and only Son.

>>18638173
I can even go into what the sacrifice on the cross means metaphysically, because everything comes from God. He is the ultimate servant; his self-sacrifice gives life to us. The death on the cross is a manifestation of this eternal sacrifice. That is why Jesus says, "The greatest among you will be your servant." And this is also why he is called "the lamb sacrificed before the foundation of the world."

>>18638193
I had dreams of myths that I only read about later after the fact, and those dreams interacted with those myths in such a completely interesting way, I was so spooked when I had a dream about a god and goddess that I thought was supposed to be something else only to find out that they aren’t the figures I thought they were but actually look exactly like the traditional representation of a pair of god and goddesses whose myth perfectly fits the dream. I had a beautiful personal experience that linked itself with Jesus’ wine press parable

It is all very plastic and we are in a constant dialectic with it, it is ignorance and hubris to think modern western myths aren’t a thing, our entire lives are myth-making really. To go further, look at the events that occur during the day and see what parallels you might find in the stories in the Bible and its symbology and your personal experiences, insane synchronicities are not out the question and so much can be reflected from simply looking at your life likes its a symbolic story

>>18638201
why do you think it is called "El Niño"?

it just happens to be that they named the event revelation talks about "the christ child"

"The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him."

>>18638201
If you begin to read his teachings through what we have discussed here, it all begins to make sense: why the death of the self is essential, why self-giving is so important, and why love, compassion, justice, mercy, and faithfulness aren't just some good things God created, but they are God's own nature. And to share in God's nature, you must be formed into his likeness. Christ came to reveal him so that by living as he did, you will have eternal life in him and have it to the full: "I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you."

>>18638201
There are rarely people I even want to talk to about this because most see this as complete schizo stuff. Believe me, what you have seen is much closer to the truth than what most can grasp. Much love.

religion is wishful thinking for retards that are afraid of death.

>>18638221
You die every second

>>18636857
>free will without evil is possible
https://youtu.be/CgebLmYDx_E?si=QlUGfrsmaC8VjWa1

God allowed you to be born with a dead sinful nature, but He also allows you to be born with a living, spiritual nature as a free gift if you are willing to want what God accepts for you. The reason we're in this mess to begin with is because of free will, and beings refusing what God wants for them.

If you think that's unfair, then why don't you accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour and be born again into His Kingdom so that you can ask Him why things had to be this way? Why did He chose to give people this choice?

Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. He died on the cross as a sinless sacrifice for all the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sins. He was buried, then rose again from the dead. One day you will stand before Him, and He will judge you. You can either repent to God by receiving Him and be saved, or reject Him and go to hell for your sins.

Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9, given by God, Romans 10:8 & 17) only in the one, final, effectual sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ (Heb. 10:8-12) dying in your place (1 Cor. 15:3-4) as a substitutionary offering for sin (Rom. 5:1-10). His blood atonement made for you is finished, so if you have received the Lord Jesus by faith (John 1:12) in your heart, you're forgiven of all your sins and are saved, once for all; finally and forever! (Rom. 8:38-39, Romans 4:5)

The gift of salvation can't be earned, it's a gift: Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Rom. 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Confess The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in prayer, that you trust in Him, not your own works. He atoned for your sins on the cross.

>>18638221
I've never seen anything that's ever supported the idea that religious beliefs are driven by a fear of death. I've only ever seen it expressed by people who just don't get the religious and need an explanation that makes sense to them.

>>18638492
>I've never seen anything that's ever supported the idea that religious beliefs are driven by a fear of death
were you only born yesterday, retard?

>>18638660
No. I'm religious and the fear of death has nothing to do with my beliefs.

>>18636857
>>therefore, free will without evil is possible
Yeah, it was possible for Adam and Eve to be good and not eat the forbidden fruit, that's the whole point. Unfortunately it's just not what happened.

>>18639487
>be god
>create evil snake
>let evil snake into garden of Eden
>snake convinces the creatures you've made gullible because they're gullible
>punish them for it
Why is god such a sadist?

>>18636857
Read Calvin

>>18636857
What evil could God even do when he is alone, almighty and immortal?

>>18640176
Create beings and torture them (which is exactly what he did according to Christcucks)

>>18640261
Why would that be immoral?

>>18640267
From a Christian perspective? Because according to Christcucks Creation is for the good of the creature and power entails care.

>>18640281
I mean logically, why would that be immoral?
Btw, the Christian perspective would acknowledge that the purpose of creation is to glorify God.

>>18640288
>the purpose of creation is to glorify God
Yes, because they define god as perfectly good. You clearly have no knowledge about Christian theology. They believe in innate goodness
>logically
There's no logic involved here that's the entire point of the thread retard

>>18640292
Logically, why would God doing any of this>>18640261 be immoral? Immoral based on what moral code?

>>18640296
He wouldn't, but he does according to Christian logic. Good job on realizing that Christian logic is retarded. What the fuck do you not understand?
>based on what code
Christian moral code

>>18639954
Because you are taking a symbolic story literally, it’s like asking why do birds keeping trying to fuck bees

>>18636857
God does not need to follow logical rules, he creates the rules.

Free will without evil is, of course, possible to an omnipotent being. God could create a square circle or a rock he both can and can't lift simultaneously. He simply chooses not to because that is not his intended design.

>hurrr, epicurean, then God isn't good!

Humans are imperfect beings. Not even all humans agree about what is good and what is evil. Claiming to know good and evil better than an all-knowing diety is comedic arrogance. If you think something is evil and God says it's not, you're just wrong because you are a blind and deaf insect compared to a perfect deity.

>>18640499
This requires you know said deity is said deity and said deity is indeed all knowing and all good. If you don't know what those things are as you say, you can't say that thing is God.

>>18640473
>it was le symbolic
Please enlighten me how you determine which stories in the bible are symbolic and which aren't
>He simply chooses not to because that is not his intended design
Then he's not perfectly good
>hurrr
Hurr indeed
>Humans are imperfect beings
Why is god so retarded to create imperfect beings and then punish them for their imperfections?
>uhhh you just don't know gods plan
And back to the final cop out we go

>>18640900
Meant to quote you >>18640499
as well