>>18642802John 14:28 ►“I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
>>18642802> 89012734104242.pngThis is the kind of "work" the brightest minds of the empire was diverted towards doing from 400CE and onwards, instead of designing aqueducts, public baths, sanitation, roads, and coming up with better military strategies etc.By coincidence West Rome fell immediately and East Rome entered a long slow decline.
>>18642802I like that every heresy statement ends with an exclamation mark so we know it's silly.
>>18642802>Jesus is two persons, divine and human>Jesus is ONE person, divine and humanPeople died over this
>>18642852>jesus is one person, divine and human>ok so he has one will then correct?>ackchually no, he has two wills heh The absolute state
>>18642808TRINITY BROS TELL ME THIS VERSE ISNT WHAT IT IS
>>18642802Read Mark, ignore the fanfics.Jesus was both the son of God and the son of Man(kind). He wasn't God or even the Holy Spirit except that the Holy Spirit spoke through him.
>>18642802Iconoclasts will forever be the retarded soccer moms of religion
>>18642802
>>18642929I do happen to think that a religion founded on a mandate to do whatever can be done to help the poor should prioritize that over having a splendid temple full of gaudy expensive things.
>>18642951Is this just your head canon?
>>18642929Can you prove that icons are a bad thing?
>>18642952this is nonsensical, the temples of jerusalem and other churches have always been intended to be ostentatious, both to remind the faithful of the power of God but also as a means of piousness, for anything lesser than luxury for the Lord would be an insult
>>18642802My first thought: did the papacy create abominations just so they could condemn heresies and look like heroes they thought their church needed?When I have biblical discussions after church is over with other people, we tend to not write anything down and just go about our lives. I could go do that if I taught or went to Sunday school or something, but it’d be about writing down the lesson from someone else teaching and at that point, people tend to teach out of safe curriculum off the Bible. Like, things that aren’t too out there. In fact my pastor says he doesn’t even know what I do in my personal life after I go home for a whole week after Sunday morning. He knows we all have faults but that I am living a holy and righteous life in Jesus Christ.So I would say that the Roman Catholics created this just to worship the apostles instead of Jesus Christ. So now you need all these religious saint gods because when the apostles were crucified that was the whole point was to worship them as gods next. You know why real Christians don’t accept that and never practiced that, so why do Roman Catholics keep going? They must either have some sort of power from God to continue practicing it, because God told them to transform into what not to be (Satan transformed into an angel of light / a church showing people this is not the church), or it’s really just Nero/Rome/Jewish antichrists spearheading the whole thing at the Vatican built on Nero and Caligula’s circus. (Spiritually Nero, not Nero himself, he is dead).Islam likewise, which was founded by Jews in an Ishmael descendant kingdom (Saudi Arabia, so he was an Arab), means Muhammad had: 1. the blessing of Ishmael from God, that he would have a blessed kingdom that was comparable to Isaac’s kingdom of Israel, but not actually inherit the full blessing of Abraham. And 2., Ishmael was also cursed that his descendants would be wild donkeys of a man. Terrorists.Both of these came true.
>>18642929The Iconoclasts weren't even that extreme. One of the main problems they had was people revering, kissing and bowing to icons, so hung them up high enough that people couldn't do it anymore. Only one Iconoclast emperor actually went around destroying them.
>>18642802Nicaea II was the heresy. Who gave these men the right to abrogate God’s commands?
>>18642962Literally the second commandment
>>18642962Where is Mohammed’s icon?
>>18642852>>18642908tradlarpers will never realise this semitic tier theologicalautism is the single most unappealing thing about Christianity
>>18642852Eternal truth which divides heaven from hell is a worthy cause to die for, unlike the pornography you worship daily.
>>18642802Nestorius and Arius are the only good ones. Love my nigga Nestorius like you wouldn't believe.
>>18642928>John 1:1>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
>>18643112The Word existed in the beginning with Ha Theion, and the Word is Theos. There are two divinities discussed here, one being God the Father and the other being the Son, who is a divine being.
>>18643112>johnHe said ignore the fanfics
>>18642808Greater position.
>>18643149He didn’t say the Father has a greater positionHe said the Father is greater than him. Period
>>18642802I love how the quotation marks and exclamation points work as a subtle I AM SILLY.
>>18642802>MY epic beard is better than YOUR epic beard!!!!!!!111Catholics are such trash.
>>18642802What's the difference between having two natures and a mix of two natures?
>>18643316Is jesus God if his nature isn't fully divine?Kinda questions
>>18643316it's about the significance of sacrifice and the reconciliation of humanity with God, something non-trinitarians and gnostics are incapable of understanding
>>18642802XNITY PRIMERhttp://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1a-9eWjZWH-6uUOcRFJ4hFsgB2vOhdZZfgoogle drive easy to use interface...learn moar discern moar
>>18642802>"Jesus is two persons, divine and human!"Was this a big enough deal to cause a schism? Are the implications really that massive? Sounds to me like they were bickering which shade of brown Jesus's hair color was
>>18642852>>18642908>>18643373Pretty sure it's all bullshit and the actual reason for fighting was just getting rid of opposing factions to hold all the power, what are the actual ramifications of, say, two persons, one will (heh)
>>18643377the actual significance is that having Jesus be of two persons but only one will (that is divine) makes His incarnation in humanity be imperfect and not perfectly true to mankind, making the crucifixion and salvation from original sin no longer be attained as Jesus is no longer truly human with a truly human will
>>18643373Priests have nothing better to do all day long than debate theology and get drunk. Also gay sex maybe.
>>18643351>the significance of sacrifice"sacrifice" what?
>>18643411what do you think i'm referring to dipshit
>>18643415spell it out me. What is an immortal god sacrificing? Why are they sacrificing?
>>18643419the Son, that is the God made in the form of mankind to suffer all the indignities and miseries that we are responsible and carry the weight of on account of our original sin, chose by his magnanimity and endless mercy to suffer in our place for our mistakes, so that rejects like yourself may eventually attain salvation in Heaven in spite of not deserving such an honor
>>18642952Poor people like pretty things too. So long as the temple is public and the priests themselves aren't living in aristocratic luxury, there is no contradiction. In fact, the death of beautiful public works is an assault on the poor in particular.
>>18643139incorrect>Mark 12>28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?>29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:>30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.>1 Corinthians 8:6>6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.>1 Timothy 2:5 >5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, there is no contradiction.>>18643141Apostle John is the beloved disciple and his testimony is true.
>>18643442these people unironically want the poor to pray in actual mud huts with shit and graffiti smeared on the walls because "poverty brings you closer to God"
>>18642808>I and the Father are OneIs One greater than One?
>>18642829But Christianity conquered the world And Rome never fell
>>18643064Now that I think of it, we haven't had a good FILIOQVE thread in a while
>>18643286>NOOOO IGNORE THE CONTEXTThe Father was in a greater position than The Son in that moment. Read the bible slower.
>>18643473rome has literally existed for more than half of recorded written human history at this point
>>18642802It gets to the point sometimes, like the Monophysite/Chalcedon divide that feels like splitting hairs over something we were not told. Jesus is divine and human, and how that works is not something God saw fit to explain.
>>18643472Yes.
>>18643494Is One greater than One if both are One?
>>18643488And will continue to exist for the other half as well. Aurelian built those walls strong
>>18643505They are one because they are united in purpose. Not because they are one God. In John 17 Jesus prays that his disciples too may be one with him and the Father.
>>18643508They are united in purpose and EssenceThat's a crucial part you are leaving out, likely because you don't know about it
>>18643447>John is the beloved discipleJohn the Elder writing himself into his fanfic, does not make it any less made up. It doesn't match the earlier gospels at all. It's clearly fabricated in order to make theological points.
>>18643424>to suffer all the indignities and miseries that we are responsibleHow? When one person harms another person, how is that harm somehow transfered to Jesus? Is Jesus supposed to have felt ALL the miseries of Humanity, all 120 billion Humans born so far, and all the billions and trillions and more Humans that will be born in the future, all in the span of the 6-9 hours he was hanging on the cross?>carry the weight of on account of our original sinYou mean Adam and Eve eating the fruit of knowledge that made them aware they were being exploited as labourers by the gods(yes, plural, gods)? This myth was copied from Sumerian creation myths, 'Adam' was stolen from the Sumerian 'Adapa'. The gods told Adam and Eve not to eat from the fruit of knowledge because they didn't want Adam and Eve stealing their jewels, the fruit wasn't the fruit of "good and evil", it was the fruit of that enabled them to differentiate what's "precious and what's worthless". Even if this myth actually happened, how would that result in "original sin"? Adam and Eve's disobediance somehow "corrupted" Human nature, and god rather than fix that "corruption" easily, because god is supposedly the creator of Humanity, he has to come to Earth and be tortured to death? And believing that that torture and murder was done for humanity's "sake" somehow fixes a corruption in Human nature that wasn't even the fault of Humans(including Adam and Eve), because an omniscient god would have known that Adam and Eve would steal from the tree before they did, and rather than do the rsponsible thing of taking a hot stove away from a child, god let's Adam and Eve eat from the tree and pretends that somehow a slight was committed against them(again, gods in genesis is plural, the ancient Israelites used to be polytheists)?
>>18643528what are you thinking you're doing exactly, making reference to pagan rituals that the jews were expressly forbidden from worshipping and to whom they suffered immensely after God punished them for their insolence? that the ancient maccabians should worship urukian idols or whatever says nothing about the authentic message of the Bible, which has been affirmed and proved by numerous other channels and is at any rate a work of divine inspirationas for your other nonsensical claims, yes Jesus did indeed suffer for all of humanity, past present and future because God stands above temporal chronology and has already foreseen and witnessed everything that is to be as is appropriate given His powerit's very difficult to try and formulate a coherent retort when you so clearly are lacking in biblical training and knowledge, not even understanding how the hypostatic union is the greatest proof and affirmation of humanity being freed from original sin and in the opening of the pathway to heaven, and so that only via following the "rock" (that is the church of Peter) may one walk the right pathhumanity has free will in case you've forgotten, people choose evil, God merely observes and dishes out punishment as of the righteous would to an evildoer
>>18643559>Jesus did indeed suffer for all of humanity, past present and futureSo address this:"how would that result in "original sin"? Adam and Eve's disobediance somehow "corrupted" Human nature, and god rather than fix that "corruption" easily, because god is supposedly the creator of Humanity, he has to come to Earth and be tortured to death? And believing that that torture and murder was done for humanity's "sake" somehow fixes a corruption in Human nature that wasn't even the fault of Humans(including Adam and Eve)">the hypostatic union is the greatest proof and affirmation of humanity being freed from original sinExplain then.
Leave it to religious people to make up a problem to later solve in exchange for a membership.
>>18643643you're presupposing a nonsensical atheist paradigm once more, that humanity is not responsible for their decisions and the consequences of those decisions, or that the sins of the father doesn't pass down to his son, something the bible covers at length and which you'd recognize would answer all of your disingenuous queriesas for the latter, this concerns the fact that Jesus' sacrifice is only meaningful if he is of humanity, and as such capable of suffering in our stead, and yet is at the same time divine, that is now we have attain reconciliation between heaven and earth in the Son's actions, the foundation for all subsequent faith
>>18643677>nonsensical atheist paradigm once moreI'm not even an Atheist, I don't believe in any of the Abrahamic religions, I'm not a Hindu or Buddhist either. >that humanity is not responsible for their decisionsAdam and Eve were in Eden, the rest of Humanity were not, Jesus dying for "original sin" is irrelevant to the rest of Humanity, because the rest of Humanity didn't pick that fruit. >the sins of the father doesn't pass down to his son,Indeed they don't, to believe otherwise is unjust. >something the bible covers at length and which you'd recognize would answer all of your disingenuous queriesYou think it does, but it doesn't.>suffering in our stead,Suffering what? Crucifixion? Thousands were crucified before and after Jesus. So you believe that god punished himself as a sacrifice to pay off the sin if disobeying him? Makes you think that god would have saved himself all that trouble by not putting the tree where Adam and Eve could find it.
>>18643447Literally every single one of these verses distinguish Jesus from God, but you can’t see that because you are blinded by the Devil>>18643523>and EssenceOh, so the disciples have the same essence as God and Jesus?
>>18643684believing in an ethical paradigm is indeed "unjust", you really got me there!i'm calling you an atheist because regardless of whatever you may call yourself, you lack any proper sense for spirituality or ethics, imagining that religion is just something you wear as a piece of clothing you put on and take off whenever convenient, rather than a fundamental facet of the world to which everything else circles aroundthere is no goodness outside of God, and none of the miseries of the world could possibly ever compare to being truly distant from Him, that is Hell, which we do not reside in and in which everybody is in constant lamentations and regret after recognizing what being truly deprived of closeness to divinity truly impliesi'm certain from your perspective my religiosity is no different from whatever idol worshipping meme sheer ritualism you partake in, but we are not the same by any metric, and that you are deprived in such a manner shows through how you relate to these most critical matters
>>18643717>believing in an ethical paradigm is indeed "unjust"Your "ethical paradigm" is completely unethical, the sins of the father are not the sins of the son. The god of the old testament is an evil demon that endorses evils such as genital mutilation, rape, slavery, murder. This is the "god" that you falsely claim that there is no goodness outside of.
>>18642802The early books of the bible seem a lot like the Talmud, just a bunch of rabbi's arguing with each other and none of it agrees. Then the church (who control all the texts because 95% of the population are illiterate serfs) decided with their priestly elite class decided which books are canon or not. If Nag Hammadi or Dead Sea Scrolls existed back then they would have burned it, there was precedent for burning and erasing heresy for thousand years+.
>>18643787Early Christianity wasn't one orthodoxy fending off heretical offshoots — it was a scattered set of competing "Christianities" (Marcionites, various Gnostic schools, Montanists, proto-orthodox groups) with real theological diversity, and the faction that eventually won imperial and institutional backing retroactively wrote the others out as "heresy." Athanasius's 39th Festal Letter (367 CE) is the first document to list our 27 NT books as a closed, exclusive canon — and it explicitly instructs against reading the "apocryphal" texts.
>>18643505Yes because Jesus is correct in his statement.
>>18643064to be fair buddhists also had councils where they condemned heresies
>>18643787Early Christianity reminds me rather of an online community where one new and creative story spawns an endless number of fan creations based on it, because everyone wants to make their own version of the idea.
>>18643800Those involved legitimate points of contention, not this sort of insane nonsense >>18642802
>>18643793Stupid conspiracy theory by retarded atheists who want to be seem as intellectuals.
>>18642802>>18642808Jesus' father was African.As in,- from the dunes of Numidia.Because, that is where the firstborn son of David was exiled to because of Saul's murderous rage against his daughter Michal for taking Davids side.The tribe of Gad was named after Gad's Gaetulian salt-trader mother, whose trade with the Israelites while in egypt forced Jacob-Israel to hide Gad and his mother from the Pharaoh to hide the fact that they had not taxed their trade with the Gaetulians,- nor announced their alliance with them.This exiled lineage is why Dido/Elissa moved towards the Maghreb a couple decades afterwards with the hope of marrying into this newly established royalty.That is how Carthage emerged.
>>18643822Why would that even matter if Joseph had no involvement in Jesus' birth?
>>18643795Read it again ;-)
