Although it is said that their nautical aspect was limited or nonexistent in some places, but curiously, the Budzkhak culture (a western variant of the Yamnaya culture) possesses archaeological evidence of a boat at one of its sites. This makes me wonder how involved they really were in maritime practices.
>>18651466I think there is a cultural theme where boats are likened to horses.
>>18651475Could you share it with us? I don't quite remember what you might be referring to
>>18651466Sources:https://www.researchgate.net/publication/399257974_Wooden_Wagons_in_the_Kurgans_of_the_Northwestern_Pontic_Region_CatalogueAnother thing that caught my attention was the funereal context of these boats.Budzhak inhabited the coastal and estuarine strip of the Northwest Black Sea, and the presence of boats shows that this population did not depend solely on horses and oxen, but also mastered river and coastal navigation for trade, fishing, and transportation.This makes me wonder how PIE the myths in Greek mythology might actually be, like the one about Charon, the ferryman of the underworld responsible for transporting the souls of the recently deceased. Considering these boats were found inside a person's kurgan.I also think this is further evidence that the Proto-Indo-European peoples may have had a sea god. It is said that Poseidon acquired his characteristics as the king of the sea only after the Proto-Greeks arrived in Greece, but perhaps the Proto-Indo-European peoples already had deities associated with the ocean and not just rivers.
>>18651537>>18651466They didn't have a word for shark?
>>18651519In Old Norse, there's terms likegjálfrmarr "steed of the sea (ship)"báru fákr "thoroughbred of the wave"In the Odyssey there's ἁλὸς ἵπποι "sea (lit. salt) horses"
>>18651539Perhaps not necessarily a shark as we would know it today. I know where you're going with this.. Indo-European populations that reached the coast very early, as shown above, I'm not a paleontologist, but due to the Black Sea having a deep layer with very low oxygen (anoxic) and poor salinity, the probability and variety of large marine predators is practically nil. The only shark species native to there are very small and harmless, like Squalus acanthias. (See pic) It doesn't seem like a large "devouring" predator associated with the open oceans to me.So I don't believe they were aware of a "sharp shark" as such. Look at the ancient Greek *karkharias*, It was created from the word for "toothed/sharp". Other languages adapted the ancient root for "large fish" ((s)kwal-o-
>>18651537Poseidon himself is associated with horses. ἵππιος is one of his epithets.
>>18651567Interesting. Is there a specific article about these poetic formulas and their implications? That could contribute significantly to the discussion.
>>18651571I only mentioned Poseidon as an example. The claim formulated by some mythologists that he acquired his maritime attributes later is sometimes used to imply that PIE peoples had no knowledge of the sea and therefore no sea-associated deities. My point is that the Budzhak evidence suggests otherwise.
>>18651569oh I got it
>>18651537>This makes me wonder how PIE the myths in Greek mythology might actually be, like the one about CharonYou are probably correct here. Death in the Greek and Indic traditions involves crossing a river. This post-mortem voyage likely underlies Germanic ship burials. Balts and Slavs laid their dead to rest with coins for the boatman so yeah makes sense
>>18651537Besides Poseidon, who else do we have? Varuna, and that's it?
>>18651580>Is there a specific article about these poetic formulas and their implications?No idea.See also the theory that the Trojan Horse was a ship.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbarr>The Enbarr (Énbarr) or Aonbharr of Manannán (Irish: Aonbharr Mhanannáin) is a horse in the Irish Mythological Cycle which could traverse both land and sea, swifter than wind-speed.
>>18651635Thanks
>>18651635>>18651537Its also related to wagons so could be related
>>18651537Do we have a lot of genetic samples of the kind of people who lived on the northern coastlines of the Black and Caspian seas?
>>18651466That doesn't look like a sailing boat. Or even a very seaworthy canoe. Definitely good for fishing though.They don't seem to have been very adept seafarers if there is this little evidence for their maritime practices, anyway.
>>18651747you are retarded
>>18651707Budzkhak culture? As far as I know, no.>>18651747>That doesn't look like a sailing boat. Or even a very seaworthy canoeThey were small boats used to navigate the various rivers of the steppe. Since the original organic material that covered the structure (such as animal hides) disappeared thousands of years ago, archaeologists avoid making detailed assumptions about its navigational engineering. It's not surprising to think that the communities inhabiting these swampy and coastal regions needed lightweight boats made of leather and wicker for daily subsistence and river crossings.
>>18651963How much wood was on the steppe though? Were they getting materials for wagons and boats on the outskirts at the forest line?
