>>18653766
What do you mean? The good guys always win.

>>18653772
Not today, they don't.

>>18653766
More like the end of Carthage was a rare good guy win.

>>18653766
Evil vs evil. The liberators were the good guys.

>>18654168
Name one bad thing augustus did after he became the sole master of rome

>>18654200
He never apologized for his role in the proscriptions, failed to give power back to the Senate, and set the precedent for succession just being a matter of the emperor choosing whoever he wanted, no system or meaningful check on his choice permissible. A true lover of republicanism would have left such a matter to the Senate, and also given them direct control over soldiers' salaries to prevent anything like the civil wars of the late republic.

>>18654200
>name one thing he did after he killed everyone who stood between him and absolute power over the known world

>>18654214
>failed to give power back to the Senate
>Yeah Octavius, just empower the filthy rats who butchered your own (adoptive) father
Are you retarded or something? He should have crucified half the senate but he was too merciful

>>18654646
He literally did nothing wrong. His wife was a harpy and his daughter a whore, but none of that was his fault

>>18654658
Not the senate's fault his adoptive father was a power hungry autocrat who deserved his fate. Just as republicanism is its own justification, autocracy is inherently immoral.

If Octavian had democratized the Senate by making them subject to direct elections, expanded women's rights, abolished slavery, extended protections to noncitizens front the worst abuses by tax farmers, and renounced the right of conquest as a justification for war... Then I would say it was all worth it in the end.

>>18654668
>let's butcher this guy who just spared our worthless hides, Cato
>great idea Brutus, who cares about his fanatical and bloodthirsty legions
Fuck off with your opt*mate propaganda. If you knew history you would also know how severe it was to just murder someone within the Pomerium.

>>18654673
If he had done all that, there would not have been a Roman Empire. Can you imagine a world without Titus and Hadrian?

>>18654676
Cassius, not Cato the younger you moron. Cato had committed suicide rather than live in a world in which the light of republicanism had been extinguished. While the optimates were flawed, they did not push autocracy. Autocracy is inherently wrong.

>>18654682
>has no idea what he's talking about
>doesn't even know how far the conspiracy went
I replaced Cassius with Cato on purpose ramshit. You need to go back to school

>>18654699
>Cato was helping the liberators from beyond the grave.
Based. The only thing the liberators had to regret was that too many of the plebs had stopped caring about the sacred values of self governance and civil liberties.

>>18654708
Brutus was Cato's nephew, son in law, and student. Cato committed suicide 2 years prior but it was his ideas Brutus ran with.

>>18654723
You say that like it is a bad thing.

>>18654742
I honestly think it is, and Optimates were completely out of touch with reality despite (or maybe due to) their lofty stoicism and idealism.

>>18654747
Personally, I feel that there is no situation that ever morally justifies the transition of a democracy or oligarchy to an autocracy, and all measures to stop such a transition are in turn justifiable.

>>18654668
>Just as republicanism is its own justification, autocracy is inherently immoral.
Nah

>>18654757
That would be Brutus' line of thought, and I don't necessarily think it's stupid because Brutus himself was intelligent and capable. However, there were some rules that nobody could break without severe consequences. Murder inside the Pomerium was one of them, and no idealism could justify it in the eyes of most Romas, especially Caesar's favorite legions. It's surprising they did it considering what happened after the Gracchi brothers and the following happenings with Saturninus, Marius, and Sulla. The only explanation is that they must have been absolutely desperate. Maybe rumors were spread that Caesar intended to put them on a list

>>18654757
>all measures to stop such a transition are in turn justifiable.
Not if you can't win political support. Justification depends on the audience you are trying to win over, but Brutus was viewed as a traitor because he personally benefited from Caesar. Republicanism is an abstract ideal but loyalty is more easily understood. Not to mention, the Republic had been so thoroughly corrupted by that point that no single action could have saved it.

>>18655038
Abstract ideals are more important than personal connections. It is a relic of our past as apes that we prioritize such petty things as kinship and charisma over the invisible but overarching structural forces that shape our lives and determine what really matters.

>>18655219
You think this type of speech would land well with the centurions of Legio X or Legio XIII? Completely out of touch...

>>18654673
kys