>there's no archeological evidence of Torah observant Jews before 150 BC>the absolute earliest timeline for any awareness or mention of Moses begins at the very end of the 4th century BC, specifically around 330 to 300 BCHow are these not the most significant facts of modern archeology and textual criticism that completely fuck over all claims of all Abrahamic religions?
>>18655671there is a huge collusion of christian priests, other believers and zionist jews within biblical archaeology trying to sell judaism as "an ancient religion" that came from the southern deserts 1500BC.When it has now been shown that judaism was created and institutionalized between 150BC-150CE and that (polyteistic) yahweh worship is more likely to have originated in syria and travelled south
>>18655694OT, NT, it's all Greek to me
>>18655671Note that the purported "evidence" of Moses existing in 300BC is actually a text written by the (obviously Christian) Patriarch of Constantinople in 900CE, citing a 60BC pagan work, citing a 300BC pagan work. This is a single-manuscript bottleneck where Photius I could easily have just made shit up, as we do in fact know Christian scribes were wont to do.So the earliest attested mention of Moses is in the DSS (specifically 250BCE) and in fact we have cases of texts there where Moses is absent in one, and inserted in the other (e.g. Exodus), so it stands to reason that Moses was invented in the 3rd century BCE.
>>18655706Interesting, I didn't even know that. Makes the case for them even worse.
>>18655671>>18655694So that's why i found it odd they got the only religion where everything they must do is resumed in 5 books, included hygiene and dietary practices that were likely an primitive attempt to avoid infections and illnesses. almost as if some institutionalized group of people wrote it
Christianity is a vehicle for a set of philosophical positions and the literal occurrence of anything but Jesus is not that big of a deal
>>18655671Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, why should we expect that much has survived? It's a known fact that the Israelites frequently abandoned the religion of God to worship idols and the like. And anyway we know even from the bible that they lost the books>Go and inquire of the Lord for me and for the people and for all Judah about what is written in this book that has been found. Great is the Lord’s anger that burns against us because those who have gone before us have not obeyed the words of this book; they have not acted in accordance with all that is written there concerning us.>‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book the king of Judah has read. 17 Because they have forsaken me and burned incense to other gods and aroused my anger by all the idols their hands have made - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2022&version=NIVAnd corrupted it themselves >“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? - Jeremiah 8:8So in other words these findings are not surprising at all
>>18655754Archaelogical evidence of the Israelites being polytheistic is far older than the monotheistic verses in the old testament, pic related is Yahweh, he was originally a polytheistic Bull-god.
>>18655754We can literally test this. Not all arguments from silence are the same. Jews fled to and lived in Elephantine from 479 BC to 300 BC and we have thousands of papyri, religious and official texts. No mention of Moses, no Abraham. That's insane. That's like finding thousands of fragments of the new testament and there's no mention of Jesus. It's positive proof that they were not aware of the Torah at that time. There's more evidence that is more physical like certain shrines/ritual places being built that contradicts the Torah and so on. Everything suggesting that jews did not have the old testament and were not observing these supposedly ancient laws.
>>18655671There's no archaeological evidence of it because the stories were being orally transmitted before the construction of the Second Temple.
>>18655754>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence>proceeds to take Bible at face valueMoses isnt even present in the Temple Scroll. That strongly suggests that Moses the character was invented around this time.
>>18655761Calling those people "jews" is anachronistic by the way... Yahweists maybe
>>18655757>Archaelogical evidence of the Israelites being polytheistic is far older than the monotheistic verses in the old testamentThis is not an issue, in fact it would have been one if we didn't find out this fact. The bible frequently depicts the Israelites as a disobedient people who slay their own prophets. It's fair to assume that for huge portions of their recorded history they were polytheistic. Nothing here necessitates that it would have been impossible for them to be Monotheistic prior to that. It's just that the earliest we have left of them is this portion of history where they were sinful>pic related is Yahweh, he was originally a polytheistic Bull-godOr he was turned into one... And then prophets were sent to guide them back to the truth later.>>18655769I don't take the bible at face value, as I have shown you even from its own verses that it was lost and modified. What you're failing to understand is that you're doing an internal critique here also and if you do that then you have to grant the position we have.>That strongly suggests that Moses the character was invented around this time.For sure it raises the probability of your hypothesis I am not going to deny that, but it does so with ours as well since we didn't necessarily expect otherwise
>>18655761>Not all arguments from silence are the same.Yes indeed you're right about that.>It's positive proof that they were not aware of the Torah at that timeYep as I have shown you they rediscovered the scrolls of the law given to Moses "While they were bringing out the money that had been taken into the temple of the Lord, Hilkiah the priest found the Book of the Law of the Lord that had been given through Moses" it was such big news they had to read it out to the king. Then they were scared to death because they found out they did not follow the laws "Great is the Lord’s anger that is poured out on us because those who have gone before us have not kept the word of the Lord; they have not acted in accordance with all that is written in this book.”" You're not saying anything here that I don;t agree with lol>the old testament Didn't exist, those are various different compilations of books
>>18655778>they rediscovered the scrolls of the law given to MosesThis is very implausible. It's much more likely that those laws did not start to exist before that point.
>>18655783Why do you think a bunch of laws popping out of nowhere is more plausible than them being lost and then found again?
>>18655773>Nothing here necessitates that it would have been impossible for them to be Monotheistic prior to that.Nothing in the Bible necessitates that it would have been impossible that Yahweh was actually a time travelling Elvis Presley.>It's just that the earliest we have left of them is this portion of history where they were sinful>Or he was turned into oneThe most logical explanation is that Yaweh was a polytheistic bull-god first, and then a new monotheistic sect of Israelites forced monotheism into an existing polytheistic cult.
>>18655788>Nothing in the Bible necessitates that it would have been impossibleYes it does, people saw Elvis Presley and lived which contradicts Exodus 33:20>The most logical explanationWhy is this the most logical explanation according to you?
>>18655671>Ha! You think your religion is 2500 years old?! Well actually it's only 2300 years old! Take THAT Jews!
>>18655671Because the jews don't want you invalidating all the shit they made up.
