Neri, S., & de Vaan, M. (Eds.). (2026). The speakers of Indo-European and their world: Proceedings of the 17th Fachtagung of the Society for Indo-European Studies Basel, 9–12 September 2024. Reichert Verlag.https://doi.org/10.29091/9783752003659I thought this would be interesting to share since some topics previously discussed on /his/ are actually covered in these conference proceedings.
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>>18658385The etymology of Europe
>>18658116Rare thread about actually studying history and not just shitflinging about nonsense. Thanks OP!
>>18658854A root *des- "to sit" was previously discussed on /his/.>>18658869I'm just posting what's interesting to me.
I was going to make a thread about this!! What did you think of the chapters on the IE presence in the Middle East? It would be cool to discuss this. By the way, I loved how they integrated an analysis of linguistics, archaeology and genetics.
>>18658385Eurocentrism. Mars was originally an agricultural god (not a war god) and his name likely came from the Etruscan "Maris". - "Marutas" (Sanskrit) refers to gods of the wind, and is not related to Mars. The *Māwort- hypothesis seems inconsistent with linguistic and historical facts
>>18658181>>18658170As I mentioned in another thread, we have two new samples (A22039 and A22037) that are relatively rich in steppes and possess the R1b-Z2103>M12149 variant in Bakr Awa, from the Middle Bronze Age, in northeastern Iraq. It's good to know that the authors of this incredible book are addressing this issue. Apparently, the Indo-European migration (Catacombs or Armenian) reached Urmia and seems to have extended even further south.We also have the I4243 HajjiFiruz_BA sample with pretty high steppe.
>>18659701I remember we had a thread about this years ago and someone showed a possible root for an Irish word cognate with Dāsa and maybe Mycenaean Doero
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>>18660233>EurocentrismShut fuck up
>>18660253Yes, but this is outdated. There are no parallels outside of Iran
>>18660269Why can't India have its culture in peace?
>>18660228>What did you think of the chapters on the IE presence in the Middle East?I just like that someone is finally addressing it. The present seems like a much better environment for linguists to publish theories like Euphratic which received too much skepticism in the past without the background of genetics.
>>18660289Pinault upholds the traditional idea that this word family is attested in Iranian, Indo-Aryan, and Greek.
>>18660306Does anyone know why there would be an extensive migration of Yamnaya to Anatolia, Mesopotamia, and western Iran?Did the climate of the steppe change such that it made sense to go south of the Caucasus?
>>18660314Where?
>>18660306>EuphraticI'm the user you were discussing with regarding this possible language. We were theorizing whether it might be Centum or Satem and the possibility of them being Gutian.
>>18660323See>>18660248Based on samples from Iraq (Bakr Awa, 1900 BC, R1b-Z2103>M12149), this lineage does not come from a late Yamnaya expansion through the steppe. The model is 49.4% local Semitic-shifted Bakr Awa + 29.0% Kalmykia EBA Yamnaya + 21.6% Kura-Araxes core.This points to a source similar to Armenia / Catacomb culture, moving south through the southern Caucasus corridor. It supports the view that proto-Anatolians are pre-Yamnaya, splitting before classical Yamnaya and migrating via the southern route, not the northern steppe.
>>18660347I think it would be pretty neat to see a theoretical migration trail laid out on a topographical map. The Afanasievo migration seems much less complicated and dangerous than going through the Caucasus.
>>18660331I remember. I hope you're doing well.
>>18660347Another thing I didn't mention: samples with a similar profile have a very small N (N=4), so we are dealing with isolated samples. Don't draw too many conclusions from such a small sample size, but it is conclusive proof of Indo-European admixture in Mesopotamia from an Armenian source.I believe we are underestimating the southern Caucasus — the user above could answer this better. I read somewhere about an Indo-European substrate in pre-Iranian Caucasian lineages. Perhaps other Indo-European groups were already established in the southern Caucasus in the Bronze Age? We have some Indo-European haplogroups and admixture in the region.what is striking is seeing a sample like this (see pic). This woman had almost 60% Yamnaya-like ancestry.
>>18660377You too, my friend ;). I wish you all the best.>>18660369>The Afanasievo migration seems much less complicated and dangerous than going through the Caucasus.Perhaps. But the Afanasievo culture developed in the Altai and Minusinsk mountain region (southern Siberia/Mongolia), eastern Kazakhstan, and incredibly in certain areas of Tajikistan, but there is no evidence of gene flow or archaeological return or migrations of Afanasievo populations back to the deep south towards the Caucasus or Iraq. And the presence of Caucasus-related ancestry is also important.
>>18660329Not in Punjab, that's for sure saar
>>18660384All new samples from Max Planck's work, except one Unakozovskaya, are strongly mixed with the steppe. In Harvard's work, too, all the samples of the Eneolithic of the North Caucasus are mixed. And only with the arrival of Maikop, starting from 3800 BC, 100% South Caucasian samples are again being used
>>18660406This is too old tho. Unakozovskaya is a pure Caucasian community (mountain cave burials, i think) These are simply different phenomena.Then Maikop is different thing, but we all know that
>>18660306When the dust settles you've got Hurrians around all these areas, and every group (except Kassites andGutians) in the Zagros highlands seem to have Hurrian onomastics / ethnonyms / ruler names (occasional Semitic names too).
>>18658170I was expecting this to be substantially more focused on the Mitanni
>>18660421Me too
>>18660329You might consider reading the chapter of the subject is important to you
>>18660482if
Article on the Caland system was fairly interesting. Not much in the way of new information though. We already knew VSkt. was the most conservative IE language in most respects because they *intentionally used archaic verbiage*
>>18660502>We already knew VSkt. was the most conservative IE languageGood morning
>>18660414What do you think this says about Hurrians?
>>18660537I'm Belgian you retard. If you want to prove there's a more archaic IE language than Vedic Sanskrit, go right ahead. Hittit
>>18660551Fuck, I'm retarded. I meant to say "Hittite and Sanskrit dictionaries are at your fingertips."
>>18660551Do you eat Belgian waffles?
>>18660552>>18660551You mean canadian?
>>18658116Wow I'm loving reading this book!!!!!!
>>18660233Okay, we lost again. The Maruts were a group of Indian deities, nothing to do with Mars.
>>18660860??
>literal speculative fictionIsn't that what /lit/ and /tg/ are for?
>>18660860The book connects Mārs and the Maruts
>>18661226>>18660860Go back to Punjab
>>18660253What?
>>18658385For comparison, here is John Clayton's reconstruction.
>>18661689>>18658385OG PIE god of war?
>>18661590There was a thread about two years ago where someone found a caste system in Ireland where slaves were called a Western variant of the Indic "Dāsa". But since the authors didn't bother to cite that, perhaps people's imaginations were running wild. And that's not mockery.
>>18658170I hate to sound conspiracy-minded, but is the Middle East also like Iran or India with their fetish for cultural isolationism? I mean, there's no fieldwork in these places, and from what you're saying here, we have genetic evidence of Indo-European ancestry in these locations.
>>18661689Not so fast
>>18661730That's Blanca Prósper's paper. I think it's worth reading to see what data and arguments she brings to the table, but Clayton at least accounts for the long vowel in some forms correctly with a root *meh2-. It would be nice to see longer treatments of the comparanda.
>>18661706>is the Middle East also like Iran or India with their fetish for cultural isolationism?There's probably a lot of countries like this but there's not a long history of Indo-Europeanists trying to incorporate the Middle East into their research since no IE languages survive there. It wasn't even something people thought about until genetics.
>>18661698>were called a Western variant of the Indic "Dāsa"which one?
>>18661766>>18661730>>18658385I didn't give my opinion on that. Honestly, while I understand the problems with this theory that several authors have been debating, I believe it's safe and pertinent to assume an etymological and mythological link between both deities (although Maruts are better described as groups of heroic entities from the past). A reasonable argument would be the lack of other parallels in other branches, yes, but Italic and Vedic are separated by space and time i.e. I can't think of a more logical possibility than a common heritage. Any attempts to associate this with borrowings would also be flawed.Mars is encouraged to summon all the Semunis similar to the Rig Veda (RV 1.165.14c) where Indra commands the Maruts.
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>>18662073Rajesh, I know you might be very retarded and incapable of reasoning I'm ordering you to get out of here and make more spam threads for your Filipino boyfriend. We're having a serious discussion here, get lost. (Yamnaya didn't have iron chariots at EBA. Why act like a retard?)
>>18662079Just a joke. Relax.
>>18662073These are not the same event you brainless idiot.>>18661766Okay, I'm open to new points of view, but would you mind posting a link? My problem lies in the fact that all this implies more functional homologies of parallels of shared entities, and how would you explain the "v/u" sound in Latin? There's no exact correspondence in the "r" of Sanskrit for that structure.
>>18661875But we must take into account that Māvors has an obscure etymology, possibly derived from an Italic root or even a non-Indo-European loanword like the Etruscan Maris.
>>18662098I can't really agree. Although I do recognize that navigating all the Italic variants is awkward. Some authors have treated these differing word forms, but I don't think anyone has given a systematic account yet.Some Italic variants are due to reduplication. The case of Māvors is weird in that it looks like *meh2-u̯r̥-t- but this conflicts with Clayton's desire to see metathesized *meh2-ru-t- in Mārs. Did metathesized and unmetathesized forms exist side-by-side for some reason? In that case we would need to determine what the additional conditions for metathesis were.
>>18662090>would you mind posting a link?Unfortunately it's just an abstract with references. He never published the paper anywhere as far as I can tell. It's just a presentation he gave at the 33rd Annual UCLA Indo-European Conference but for some reason the paper didn't even end up in the book. Maybe he was waiting for some papers to be published before making fixes and publishing himself.https://pies.ucla.edu/conference/weciec-archives/weciec-33/
>>18662173>It's just a presentation he gave at the 33rd Annual UCLA Indo-European Conference but for some reason the paper didn't even end up in the book. Maybe he was waiting for some papers to be published before making fixes and publishing himself.What a shame, and it's been years since these summaries were published.
