Free will is not real. You exist within the context of all that has come before you. Every choice you have made has been the consequence of circumstance beyond your own control.
>>18659036Cool, then I don’t need to worry about anything as it’s all been decided :)
But free will exists. My comment proves it.
>>18659036Ok and?
>>18659036Depends on how you define free will. Of course every decision you make is shaped by the weight of all past decisions. That doesn't imply that your decisions are in any way predetermined.
>>18659056And so where does the agency come from if its independant from everything else? You would think I was a horrible person if i tried to suggest that someone with a debilitating brain tumor or injury that has completely changed their personality and temperament still has the agency to make their own choices wouldn't you? why is it difficult to apply the same reasoning to all people.
>>18659075People with debilitating brain tumors, Alzheimer's, et cetera still have the capacity for decision making. The decisions they make might be, "I'm going to stab my nurse because the angels told me to," but that's still a decision. I would not, however, call them competent enough to make legal or medical decisions for themselves. Which does not imply that they can't make those decisions, only that their opinion of what is best for themself is no longer relevant.And nobody knows how consciousness works, so I can't tell you the source of agency. But it certainly exists. I'm deciding to make this post right now when I could be jacking off.
>>18659081>People with debilitating brain tumors, Alzheimer's, et cetera still have the capacity for decision making. The decisions they make might be, "I'm going to stab my nurse because the angels told me to," but that's still a decision. I would not, however, call them competent enough to make legal or medical decisions for themselves. Which does not imply that they can't make those decisions, only that their opinion of what is best for themself is no longer relevant.Yeah, that's fair, and I agree. My tangent was more about the inconsistency in how we think about moral responsibility. We're willing to recognise that someone with a debilitating brain tumour, Alzheimer's, or some other serious neurological condition may not be morally responsible for their actions because their capacity for rational decision-making has been compromised. But with ordinary criminals, we're much more willing to treat them as fully morally responsible; as if they simply chose to be the way they are and chose to commit the things they did. We respond to one group with compassion and the other with blame when both are ultimately acting according to things beyond their control. Yet you would instead claim that they still have agency that is somehow independant from everything else which is where we disagree.>And nobody knows how consciousness works, so I can't tell you the source of agency. But it certainly exists. I'm deciding to make this post right now when I could be jacking off.Why does agency exist? >Because I feel like itProof? >my feelings tell me its true
>>18659041You were determined to make your comment.Ooooo.
>>18659198Actually I was determined not to make it until the very end but free will prevailed at the last second and I clicked post
>>18659036The real reason we don't make conscious decisions is this: consciousness is actually a type of short-term memory, and it's about 5-10 seconds late, everything we experience already happened, and we watch something like a recording after the fact. Unconsciousness is just when memories don't get transferred to the conscoius part of your brain.Proof: when you get waken up from your sleep by a sudden noise, what you experience is you lying half-awake in bed for bit, and THEN you hear the noise. This is because during sleep, experience is recorded but not stored, but due to you waking up suddenly (regaining consciousness), your brain starts filing exeprience into your conscious mind with the normal 5-10 second gap, including the seconds before the noise.
>>18659211>when you get waken up from your sleep by a sudden noise, what you experience is you lying half-awake in bed for bit, and THEN you hear the noisewtf no. When this happens I usually experience the noise in my dream and then want up.
>>18659205Ah.It is an interesting thing that.While I am a determinist, I do recognize free will existing in some fashion.That instance of free will that you demonstrated, is not something that you use freely. That is to say you were determined to use free will in that instance.Now that you used it, you are hear on determined by what circumstance the thread goes and your interest to continue to engage in it.It is quite the conundrum, at least to someone who subscribes to free will.As a determinist, I am aware of where the strings may pull as would be our analogy.
>>18659217Oh, ho.>hear onMy brain sure is showing how I'm going to need sleep soon.
>>18659217How do you intergrate two functionally incompatible ideas with one another? the very idea of free will suggests that people are able to make decisions entirely independant of material processes.
>>18659232You know, I never really hear it put that way. It's usually to any 'prior event' or 'state of the universe.'From what I gathered in a search what you related just now concerning the relation to the material and our decision making capabilities is in line with the idea of the mind-body problem.
>>18659215I don't know, this happens to me all the time.
>>18659211this happens to me when I'm awake.it's very slight but when I get jumped by a loud sound the jump happens slightly before the actual perception of the noise.
>>18659036>t. fatass who can't stop himself from eating his fifth donutsounds like a you problem
>>18659260Material processes and "prior events/states of the universe" are all functionally describing the same thing; a chain of causality. To suggest that free will exists is to break the chain and the only way to do that is to appeal to some kind of supernatural force/energy like a soul or to claim that consciousness has some mysterious mojo that is completely independant from the material. (frankly I just don't buy it)>>18659313Unironically this. Attributing personal moral failure to someone just because they can't drop any weight is like putting a wolf in court for killing a shepards livestock and proclaiming it is evil. It may be guilty in an objective sense but most educated people would call you silly if you started judging it in any moral capacity because it's just an animal doing what an animal does. Fat people are the same, and so are pedophiles, rapists, and murderers.
>>18659217>I do recognize free will existing in some fashion.So you lied in the OP saying it doesn't exist. So which is it?
>>18659036Free will in theological sense is freedom to sin, i.e. to stray from the one true course of the party-line. It exists solely for the legitimation of the concept of punishment.
>>18659572I'm not OP.
>>18659041Are you like 12 years old? You think because you can physically do things that means you have free will? So you woke up one day and chose your favorite color or food? You chose which girls you were attracted to? Fuck off retard
>>18659572OP here. I do not recognize free will existing in any capacity at all.>>18659575True, but distinguishing free will in a theological sense is kind of naught in my opinion because using free will to justify punishment is not something that is unique or specific to religion.
>>18660304>npc maldingOf course I have free will because I am a free man thank God. That's a no brainer really. My favorite color is White, used to be gray. Another example of free will in action. As for food, I am free to eat anything I like, and I change the menu sometimes.
>>18659217For me it's not really a dilemma. I have my own free will, but I am also aware that God's Will must be done so my free will needs to be more aligned with God's Will in order for me to experience something closer to true freedom
>>18660736This is genuinely as stupid as when a woman claims she chooses out of her own free will to wear makeup and shave everyday just for herself.
>>18660774Are you predestined to sin?
>>18660794Define sin. I think i am predestined to do everything that i am predestined to do.
>>18660812>a self proclaimed calvinist does not know the definition of sinI'm facepalming so hard right now. Especially because you think you're smart but you have no idea how badly you got played.
>>18660816>a self proclaimed calvinist I am not christian and have never claimed to be.
>>18660824Then you canmot comprehend free will
