why did independent ireland let this happen? obviously the language was in a dire situation when they achieved independence, but how did they let it get so much worse?there are plenty of examples of successful language policy in the 20th century, so why were they so uniquely incapable?
>>18660042Anglo BVLLs raped Ireland into submission
>>18660051you mean pakistani bulls made new pakistan
>>18660042whats the point in clinging to an archaic dying language? English is much more usable
>>18660042They don't actually care about it, that's the fact of the matter. If they wanted to they easily could spend an hour a day learning it. And it's not just the irish, there seems to be a collective delusion among "celtic" people where they think they care about their languages and yet don't actually bother to learn then. The main thing that ever distinguished them from the english and they never bother with it instead choosing to whine. That's why they're so obsessed with made up traditions like kilts and other nonsense.>there are plenty of examples of successful language policy in the 20th centuryWhat would that be aside from jews?
>how did they let it get so much worse?The problem in Ireland is that in the eyes of the vast majority there were simply more important things.Almost EVERYONE in Ireland spoke English; some also spoke Irish, but English was the language of politics, economics, education, everything. If you were doing anything outside of your own home or the scattered rural communities that had many Irish speakers, you were speaking English-this had been the case for a long time. So when Cumann na nGaedheal and then Fianna Fáil took power, they had to deal with:>setting up the irish economy>stabilising irish politics>navigating their relationship with britain (civil war aftermath, trade war, transitioning to republic)>dealing with WW2Ultimately there wasn't much call to try and suddenly pivot everything to a language most didn't speak much of. There was certainly an effort, but the average person isn't a huge cultural nationalist and just wants better living conditions-they'll always focus more on that than romantic notions about returning to Gaelic roots, especially now "the Brits were gone."There's always been a big divide between government sponsored revival and grassroots revival, the latter usually being more popular.
>>18660059because it's ireland's heritage and english is the language of the colonizer? many language revivals in the recent past make no practical sense. hebrew was literally extinct for thousands of years. basque is an isolated language that is very difficult to learn. maori is extremely useless especially in a core anglospehere country. the same could be said about many indigenous languages. yet these movements have been successful, to varying degrees, because people tend to care more about their pride and identity than the abstract benefits of speaking a foreign language.
>>18660069>english is the language of the colonizer?categorically false, english was brought over by peasant settlers when ireland was conquered by the french who colonized ireland
>>18660060>collective delusion among celtic peopleok but welsh is actively spoken by half a million people and that number is constantly increasing. obviously the circumstances are different but clearly its not impossible.>what would that be other than jews well firstly jews are a pretty excellent example because they revived a language that was not only declining but completely extinct and had been for 1000+ years. but otherwise, off the top of my head, welsh, basque, maori, hawaiian, and various indigenous languages to varying degrees. though hebrew is definitely the most impressive success.
>>18660089The welsh speaking population is declining demographically and welsh nationalists are so lazy they have to set up immersion education instead of bothering to read a book on it themselves. The government gives them so much money every year for their hobby and then they insult that and hate the english.
>>18660069only 3% of maoris use te reo as the primary language at home, it's not really that successful.
>>18660092that's better than 0% which is what it would have been
>>18660092You really have to wonder how reliable the statistics on welsh and gaelic are. And don't remember that scotland has a made up language they call scots to confuse retards into thinking that they know gaelic.
>>18660095>scots is a made up langaugei understand why you would have this impression if you've only ever read, and not listened to, scots, but i'd like you to watch this video with you eyes closed and tell me that you as an english speaker can understand what he's saying https://youtu.be/sNhUL4SrcRg?is=t8phVTxoinajW_oM
>>18660099understand all of it, that is. some parts are kind of obvious.
>>18660099Actually it's rather easy to tell what's being said once you adjust to it. There are loads of other dialects around england that aren't classified as separate languages. a lot of american accents are hard to understand. They pretend "scots" is a language to justify their invented nation of scotland when historically scotland was multiple different nations.
>>18660069>>18660089>yet these movements have been successfulDunno about Maori, but Welsh isn't doing well. While there are plenty of people who claim to know Welsh after doing a few Duolingo lessons, the number of L1 speakers who actually use it in daily life is decereasing.
>>18660103are you american? american accents are a meme. outside of probably less than 1000 people across the country who live in tiny hamlets that have had no contact with the outside world for 50 years, every american accent is 100% mutually intelligible with the standard one. regional accents are basically dying anyway, in most big cities in the south everyone sounds pretty much the same as people do in california, chicago or NYC
>>18660108>are you american?No. Try researching old fashioned southern accents, they're actually harder for british people to understand than the scottish accent
>>18660110literally nobody talks like that anymore. i'm as yankee as they come and i've never lived outside the mid-atlantic my whole life but i've been all over the south and most of the people i met sounded pretty much like me. i've never once encountered a native english speaker in america who i cannot easily understand, at least never a white one, african american dialects of english can actually be pretty hard. since the 50s the south has received wave after wave of migration from carpetbagging northerners and so "southern culture" is pretty much a larp except in rural areas.
>>18660114And no one talks like that jock either lol it's a fake accent like the rp they do in theatres. If a retarded scottish accent is a language then so should loads of dialects around the british isles and america.>african american dialects of english can actually be pretty hard.Good point, that might as well be a separate language too. and unlike scots it seems to have its own grammar.
>>18660042By that point English was already far too dominant both in culture and numbers. Why they would abandon the dominant language of the world to adopt what urbanite irish folks (the One that actually pushed for indipendence) considered a uncomprensible rural tounge?
>>18660115well, i've never been to scotland so i'll have to defer to you on this one, if you've actually been there.i would not consider AAVE to be a distinct language. most african americans can "code switch" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching ) easily and will talk like white people in formal settings or around whites or asians. there really aren't any black people in america who can only speak AAVE and struggle to understand standard english. plus AAVE terms are constantly being borrowed or bleeding in to standard english. that said, it can be quite hard to understand.
>>18660089>>18660090Welsh is spoke as a hobby/side language. Almost everyone have english as the first tounge. Its survived Better than the irish one because welsh (unlike the potatoniggers) were loyal servant of the english crown, so anglos had no reason to persecute their language and heradicate their identity
>>18660120Most scots can talk in normal scottish english, much like how most lower class people in england can speak properly and pronounce their t's and h's when they want to. And absolutely no scots speakers can't understand regular english. So that means scots is definitely not a language.
>>18660126no serious linguists consider AAVE to be its own language and there are plenty, probably a solid majority, that consider scots to be one. i'll believe the experts.
>>18660121>loyal servantthe word is subjectsMost irish people didn't want independence, they fought for more regional control and better allocation of land. and that's what they got. And to this day very few irish are serious about republicanism because if they were they'd oppose the travel agreement.
>>18660131All of that is politically motivated. Saying black english is its own language would come off as racist. saying scots isn't a language would be denying made up scottish heritage and make you an evil colonizer.If you believe the experts, go and get more covid vaccinations.
>>18660099>muh english speakers can't understand itmaybe if you pretend middle class ponces or americans represent all english speakers but ANYONE from the north of england can understand """scots"""imagine preteind words like bairn and wee and weans aren't used in northern england LMAO>>18660095and scots is a germanic anglo saxon """Language""" as well LMAO>>18660131if scots is a language than west coutry english, cockney english, hiberno english all count as languages because outsiders might find them slightly difficult to understand
>>18660134The funniest part of all is that gaels used to refer to "scots" as scotland english until recent nationalism told them they're not allowed to
>>18660121>anglos had no reason to persecute their language But that's exactly what they did, for a long time actually.You're uneducated.
>>18660150Do you have an example?
>>18660042>so why were they so uniquely incapable?They've got a cool-sounding langauge and don't realise it, wankers. Imagine what would Vietnamese or Arabs give to have a language like this. Simple phonetics, doesn't sound like shit, gives you tons of cool shit for any magicy/fantasy things you might want to do.But instead, their language has less media out there than Esperanto, Klingon, Old Norse or Classical Latin. For fuck's sake, dub children movies for kids to watch. Do some manga/anime for the bigger ones. Throw in something like a dub of Y Gwyll for the moms and work from the Welsh dub for added flavor, not the English.Slovenian or Latvian do this all the time, it's not hard.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFhd8RfCqVghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECXAYbrhiyQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWPoAP2d6zk
>>18660134northern england english isn't real english either, I need subs to understand that shitt. AmericanI think the real successful language revivals were shit like Czech and Lithuanian, why did East Euros have so much more success at getting their dying peasant languages to replace a major international language like German or Russian?
>>18660042Angloids genocided and sissified the Irish, who they treated no differently from their non-European subjects. Many elements of the British colonial administration were first tested in Ireland.
>>18660042irish are lazy
>>18660475Dunno about Lithuanian but Czech never had a revival any more than English (contra Norman French) or Russian (contra French) did.There's this one troll who insists the language was dead and somehow the modern thing is a result of the whole nation readopting it again as L2 speakers but that's absolute bollocks and he just ignores any evidence to the contrary with all the fervor of a trailer trash flatearther.In turn you're really looking at a situation similar to the one Irish finds itself in today, just without the ancestral connection. German Gaelachts being Sudetenland, attempts to get the populace to learn German en-masse as their one and only literary language failing since they weren't German natives and their English-level prestige equivalent being French or Latin.Slovak would be their Scottish Gaelic, etc., etc. you can probably stretch that comparison a bit further but ultimately it doesn't bode well for Irish revival movements.
>>18660042why has nobody ITT mentioned norwegian? around 1900 the norwegian spoken and written in norway was basically identical to danish and it has been getting more and more norwegian over time.
>>18660042>>18660061Irish was pretty much impossible to write with an alphabet, so you were either completely illiterate, or you could speak English. >>18661159There was a revivalist movement, but it was largely misguided. It didn't catch on, and the language they used is borderline incomprehensible to modern speakers, while much older works can be read with ease.
>>18662467>It didn't catch on, and the language they used is borderline incomprehensible to modern speakersAny examples?I'm only familiar with things which did catch on, sometimes in both Czech and Slovak (invented words like vzduch [from Russian vazduch] instead of luft, lots of the simpler molecules like kremík, dusík, kyslík,...) and some only in Czech (reintroduced Slavic month names and invented a word for may [from Polish], barva instead of farba [they thought the former is Slavic, it's not]).But nothing that would create a specific conlang for the inelligentsia.
>>18662479J.K. Tyl's play Jiříkovo vidění is a great example. https://www.digitalniknihovna.cz/mlp/view/uuid:FF80EA20-A3AA-11DE-A5BD-0030487BE43A
>>18660099That's a "real language" just like african pidgin is a "real language".
>>18660099>>18662498As an ESL, I would assume it's English spoken on some remote island, or something like that.
>>18660042because Irish people don't care.if they did they'd all learn Irish and speak it out of principle.Jews cared which is how they revived Hebrew.
>>18662508>jews caredno>jews in the region spoke a fuckload of different languages>many were also immigrants>language necessary to unify them and cement the idea of the nation
>>18660061yeah ww2 affected ireland deeplywhat the hell was the point of independence from england then, so they had to restart their economy and politics which would have been given with england, then they couldnt focus on the thing that actually makes them a different people>>18660092>The 2018 New Zealand census reported that about 190,000 people, or 4% of the population, could hold an everyday conversation in Māori. As of 2015, 55% of Māori adults reported some knowledge of the language; of these, 64% use Māori at home and around 50,000 people can speak the language "well".Only around a million people in New Zealand are Maori, most of whom are Elizabeth Warren tier.>>18660121yeah its ironic that welsh survived well like that, and it is doing much better than irishalso the fact that celtic speakers everywhere were so willing to abandon their languageanyway, check out my irishdear gwitt I'm fayjan on 4chan on shickeen o nagetti o ho hey
