In the light of the unanimous message of the Hebrew prophets, the Jews have generally concluded that Jesus’ claim to Messiahship should be rejected. They argue as follows: Since the claim to be Messiah implies that one will overthrow the world powers, and since Jesus did not overturn the Roman power in Palestine or establish the kingdom of God, Jesus and his disciples were wrong in believing that he was the promised Messiah. The New Testament documents therefore present a false claim...
>>18663010Jesus is the ChristMatt. 16:16, Acts 5:42, Matt. 16:20; Luke 9:20; John 20:31; Acts 3:20; 9:22; 18:5; 18:28.Jesus called Himself the ChristJohn 4:25-26The Christ was bornMatt. 1:16, Matt. 2:4; Luke 2:11.Christ did worksMatt. 11:2Christ is the Son of DavidMark 12:35Christ sufferedLuke 24:26, Luke 24:46; Acts 26:23.Christ rose from the deadActs 17:3Christ was resurrectedActs 2:31Christ is a SonHeb. 3:6Christ has a bodyRom. 7:4Christ has a body and blood1 Cor. 10:16Christ became a curse for usGal. 3:13,Christ diedGal. 2:21, 1 Cor. 8:11.Christ can be sinned against1 Cor. 8:12, Christ bore the sins of manyHeb. 9:28, 1 Cor. 15:23-24.Jesus’ disciples fled when He was betrayed by Judas Iscariot. They were nowhere to be found when He was crucified. However, fifty days later, they were boldly proclaiming that Christ had risen from the dead. Confirmed by prophecy, attested by God through miracles, and risen from the dead to glory, there is no one we ought to trust more than Jesus as to who God is.1 John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."Jesus Christ is The Lord God in the flesh. He came to Earth in human form, willingly died on the cross as a sinless sacrifice for all the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sins. He was buried, then rose again from the dead. He now offers complete and permanent spiritual cleansing and eternal life to anyone who trusts Him enough to ask Him for it, instead of trusting their own works to be saved.Rom. 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc
>>18663010>Since the claim to be Messiah implies that one will overthrow the world powers, and since Jesus did not overturn the Roman power in Palestine or establish the kingdom of God, Jesus and his disciples were wrong in believing that he was the promised Messiah.Jesus did establish the Kingdom of God, but not the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. It's prophesied and it will happen in the future. The reason He did not overthrow the world powers or set up the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and rule during His first coming was because the Jews rejected Him as their Messiah, so now it will happen later.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsr80WSDYzI
>>18663055Also, it was prophesied in the Bible (Daniel 9:26,27 when the Messiah would come, and Jesus arrived exactly on time. The reason the Israel still rejects Jesus Christ as their Messiah 2000 years later is because of blindness that happened due to their refusal of Him (until God decides it's time to go back to dealing with Israel in the tribulation, after which He will overthrow the world powers, and set up rule like prophesied).Romans 11:25“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
>>18663010jesus didnt fulfil a single ot prophecy in its context. not a single one.>>18663063the very first prophecy on that list, isaiah 7:14, is already the lowest tier bullshit, like all of them.1. isaiah 7:14 is talking about a child from that time, isaiah tells ahaz that before a child is old enough to distinguish right from wrong, those two kingdoms at the time will be abandoned, nothing to do with jesus who was born 700 fucking years later2. it says the child will be called Immanuel, but this is the smallest problem3. its not saying that a virgin will conceive, the hebrew word almah doesn't mean virgin, it means young woman, and that same word is literally already used in the bible itself elsewhere to refer to women that ALREADY birth children.this shit is embarrassing.
>>18663074>jesus didnt fulfil a single ot prophecy in its context. not a single one.I'm not claiming he did....
>>18663074You were defeated by a donkey, yet you continue to make an ass of yourself.
>>18663055>Jesus did establish the Kingdom of God, but not the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. They're the same thing and he didn't
>>18663094>I'm not claiming he did....i know, you wanted proof that he was a real prophet, im giving you information that shows its not possible for anyone to give you any worthwhile proof
>>18663097>jesus is the messiah because... he rode a common transport animal of the time, a donkey
>>18663105It seems that way to me too. So how do a billion people in the world not realize this? What the fuck
>>18663010Christ's kingdom is not of this world.He didn't came to build a jewish empire but to save humans from satan (see the scroll in Revelation 5).Also thishttps://rentry.org/shroud-of-turin-27042026/
>>18663119most people are cattle that just want to be comfortable in life and deluded because otherwise their absolute dogshit average lives being as brutal as they are for no reason at all with no cosmic justice waiting for them afterwards would be too grim to bear.and a lot of this information realistically only started to be properly available and more easily findable in the recent years
>>18663127pick 1 OT messianic prophecy and explain how jesus fulfiled it in its actual context. (you wont ever be able to do this).
>>18663074>jesus didnt fulfil a single ot prophecy in its context. not a single one.351 Old Testament PropheciesFulfilled in Jesus ChristPage 343https://download.timefortruth.co.uk/docs/Christian_Soldiers_Battle_Notes.pdf>>18663099https://youtu.be/MlVIee2pp_g?si=s6dw5IDMJIsWNkpI
>>18663137notice how you couldnt even respond to the first one i explained was not fulfiled? brutal.
>>18663129After I read the first "book" of the NT, I already knew it was a fraud religion.
Both the suffering servant and the coming king who will rule with a rod of iron are the same messiah.>inb4 actually Israel are the suffering servantno, Israel are repeatedly called the unfaithful whorethey killed the prophetsGod makes a point about this by making one of his prophets marry an actual prostitute just to make that point perfectly clear
>>18663139https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHQ5NN6LJncAnything to critique about this explanation? You can start at 2 minutes
>The Jews reject the idea that Jesus is the MessiahYes, if they accepted this claim they would be Christian like the first (ethnically Jewish) Christians.
>>18663186did you even watch this or were you just looking up any cope answer to give? the thing in question is, is the verse a prophecy at all and one about jesus. the dude in the video literally just assumes he is right and essentially says "well given this is a big prophecy... it must mean that 'almah' must mean virgin." but thats the thing in question.its not a big prophecy, its not a prophecy at all, and there is nothing within the text to support it, its the opposite, as ive explained. there is a specific word for virgin that wasnt used, instead it only says 'young woman', many young women are virgins, but that doesnt change the fact that almah does not mean virgin.
lol the Septuagint literally still exists, and so "parthenos" is how the Jews alive at that time chose to translate "almah" into another language so that it would be perfectly clear what that entails to their target audience who would have no context otherwisecope and seethe
>>18663249so gods inspired word of god text wasnt written to be clear and had to be fixed, a text about one of the biggest prophecies ever supposedly, whoops, silly omnipotent omniscient god.also, notice how you had to ignore the rest of the argument because you cant answer? even if this was about a virgin woman conceiving (which its not), there is no prophecy about a future messiah nor jesus anyway:>isaiah 7:14 is talking about a child from that time named Immanuel, isaiah tells ahaz that before a child is old enough to distinguish right from wrong, those two kingdoms at the time will be abandoned, nothing to do with jesus who was born 700 fucking years later
>>18663252and so the prophecy predicts just a regular woman will give birth and that means so much because how often does that happen anyways
>>18663261like i said right there it predicts that before that child of that time is old enough to distinguish right from wrong, those two kingdoms at the time will be abandoned, is your mind being absolutely raped into oblivion in cognitive dissonance right now and thats why you didn't even register what you replied to?
>>18663010He told the jews they were liars and murderers. Seems right to me.
>>18663271He was a jew.
>>18663264Neat deflection.You seem angry.You're refusing to admit why exactly it was that the Jewish translaters of the LXX deliberately chose the Greek word for "virgin" in that passage when they didn't need to, unless of course that aligned with their own understanding of what it means.
>>18663275>accuse your opponent what you are guilty ofnotice how you didnt adress anything? what people chose hundreds of years later in a translation does not influence any of my arguments.im starting to think someone else is coping here.
>>18663277I don't need to address anything.You responded to me with meaningless non-sequitor deflections and pretend they are substantial objections to my thesis when they have no bearing on it whatsoever.Pure damage control mode, because G-d forbid anyone learn the Septuagint exists.You have no response, or coherent rationalization of why the LXX translators chose that word long before Jesus of Nazareth was ever born.
>>18663286>nuh huhconcession accepted.
Jews chose to translate "almah" into Greek as "parthenos" for the Septuagint generations before Christianity even existed.This simple and easy to communicate fact makes certain people on the internet very angry.LXX is a witness to the antiquity of this understanding regardless of the particular language of its expression.Hence, cope and seethe.They have nothing else to respond with but noise, but must respond for reasons.
>yeah when the text thats the word of a literal omnipotent omniscient perfect god speaks about a specific child Immanuel born of a young woman at the time, before he is old enough to distinguish right from wrong something will happen to the kingdoms of the time, yeaaaaah, that doesn't really matter at all you see, what the text is aaactually really talking about is that Jesus will be born 700 years later! the word of an omnipotent omniscient god was just unclear on one of the biggest prophecies ever about a virgin birth by not actually using the word for a virgin and not actually saying anything about a future messiah coming 700 years anywhere in the original text there so we humans needed to fix that inspired word of god in a later translation
memearrow greentext
>you greentexted my position so... uhhh. it doesnt count!kek, coping and seething indeed
my formatting is shit and I still can't explain the rationale behind classical translation decisions made by antique Jews
OP here, seems like nobody was able to solve the problem I laid out.So where does that leave us with the 3 major world's religions?>Judaism: still waiting for the Messiah>Christianity: The "Messiah" already came, but did not do anything he was supposed to do, he will come back though and then do it>Islam: completely made up bullshit on top of completely made up bullshitI'm kind of starting to feel like there is no hope
>no i dont care about original old testament context which would make even less sense if my translation cope were to be granted!ill go ahead and accept your final concession then.
^triggered >a wild 5 godjak threads appeared
>>18663357the hebrew bible doesn't really have a unified depiction of the Messiah, there's pretty much no person that will ever come that will fulfill everything that the alleged messiah is supposed to do anyway. But both Judaism and Christianity still operate anyway (i dont know what islam does desu). My advice regarding this would be to not think about it too hard. Most Jews practice their religion while not believing that the Messiah is going to come on Earth in their lifetime, and most Christians practice their religion while not believing the second coming is going to happen in their lifetime. How a religion is practiced is much more important than anything on paper.
>>18663074It's incredible, they post lists like this >>18663063 and it's clear they haven't actually read any of these and never will. Christians absolutely hate the bible and adamantly refuse to read it.
>>18664470>Most Jews practice their religion while not believing that the Messiah is going to come on Earth in their lifetime, and most Christians practice their religion while not believing the second coming is going to happen in their lifetime. How a religion is practiced is much more important than anything on paper.I don't understand what you mean
>>18663010You see anon, the world is controlled by elite pedophile rings who run society, right? Well, the most, snd oftenly only available religion is Christianity. Sounds true, right?
>>18664470The Hebrew Bible sets a pretty clear timeline in Daniel for the messiah to appear, the 70 weeks prophecy.Well, that time came due just before the destruction of the Temple.That's why there were so many messianic claimants running around.Religious Jews were highly expecting the coming of their deliverer.
>>18663046I should believe what's written in the NT because...?
bump because this thread triggered shills to spam out the catalogue again
>>18663010>the claim to be Messiah implies that one will overthrow the world powers, and since Jesus did not overturn the Roman power in Palestine or establish the kingdom of GodBut he did overturn the world powers. Because of Christ, humans now understand that they have (if they want) direct access to the Divine, in good times and in bad.
anti slide bumpthe responses in this thread triggered relapse spam
>>18663010>the Jews have generally concludedConsidering the jews always lie, I logically bekieve that Jesus Christ is the Lord
>>18664879>prove to me>n-no not like thatLow verbal iq on full display here. You must be jewish
>>18663046I guess the ones making up the jesus story knew about these prophecies and so were able to work them into the narrative. note how none of them have independently verifiable consequences, so the storytellers could claim their fulfillment with impunity. and that doesn't even start to touch the ones that aren't even prophecies.
>>18663010Who wins, bros?
>>18667266raise three.
>>18663010>Jesus did not overturn the Roman power in Palestine or establish the kingdom of God1000 years of Christiandom controlling the entire known world starting with pagan Rome would disagree
>impIying
>>18667278jesus did NOT overturn the roman power in palestine. the prophecy was not something like "yea verily, the power of the romans will vanish in due time, followed by a short (~300 years) christian rule before muslims fuck up everyone's shit".
