>>18682432
He created Poland though.

>>18682439
So?

>>18682432
He literally dismantled Europe based on what some mafioso told him.

>>18682451
>He literally dismantled Europe
Is the dismantling of Europe in the room with us now? Europe was fully organized along his principles after WW2, and guess what? It worked.

>>18682432
too nebbish. you gotta be cool

>>18682455
>Europe was fully organized along his principles after WW2
no it wasn't, the post-WW2 settlement was two big, semi-sovereign alliance blocs in perpetual stalemate, which was ironically closer to the pre-WW1 situation than the unworkable, unrealistic "rights of small nations" scheme he tried instead

europe should be a patchwork of small nations

>>18682432
Fucking cripple

>>18682443
>based Poland
I know this is your thread but fuck off.

>>18682432
>make changes via Consitutional Amendments
>Wilson's solely to blame
At most you can blame him for having a stroke and not being able to persuade the public to join the League

>>18682511
I have nothing against them. They're one of the largest nations in Europe, don't the people deserve a country?

Nobody is defending a guy who locked people up during the war for disagreeing with the war, creating the FBI, or creating the original Espionage Act.

>>18682432
He didn't enter the war soon enough

>>18683050
>or creating the original Espionage Act.
Is the US supposed to just defenselessly sit by and let foreign powers pursue their interests at the USA's expense or what

>>18683676
>just because surveillance state paradigm was inevitable doesn’t make it right

>>18683050
>or creating the original Espionage Act

Under the Articles of War, passed when Thomas Jefferson was president, military tribunals could try a person for spying in wartime but until 1917 there were no general laws on espionage in the United States.

>>18683050
>>18683709
the lolbert seethe you ordered, sir.

>>18682432
>or libtard seething.
Wilson was literally the peak liberal.
His approach to international politics and international law was the birth of the liberal order. If anything it was Congress that was still holding on to isolationism and thus prevented him from joining the League of Nations (proto-UN).

>>18683709
>surveillance state
Retard Wilson is still a pre-FDR president when the American federal government was extremely lax and small. Alphabet soup entities wouldn't become anything even remotely what they are today until at least 50 years later, if not arguably only after the Patriot Act.

>>18685329
liberals seethe at him because he basically did DOGE: Nigger Edition, where he cleared out as many blacks as he could from the federal government, forced all new applicants to add their photograph to application to screen out blacks, and resegregated the remaining blacks with large opaque screens that were placed between white and black sections.

>>18685341
>Alphabet soup entities wouldn't become anything even remotely what they are today until at least 50 years later
FDR wasn't 50 years later though.

people don't really know how to deal with Wilson because he was basically a "urbanist right winger". Extremely racist, but also in favor of international cooperation, foreign intervention, empire, raising taxes, and encouraging big business.

I think it's fine to shit on him because at the end of the day, no matter how good any of those things are, we now know the biggest threat to America was racial demographics, the rising tide of color, no matter what happened overseas or with tax rates or interest rates or borrowing.

Wilson was the kind of American Titan who has disappeared from public life to this day. They still lurk in the shadows, working at big name law firms if they're lucky or toiling in upper-middle-class obscurity. They disappeared because they were demographically overwhelmed. Spengler was right. WASP geniuses like Wilson spent their whole lives obsessing over interest rates and international treaties while having 2-3 children at most, meanwhile there was a seething undercurrent of other races and prole whites having 8-12 children per family waiting to demographically annihilate the WASPs, something they were quite capable of in a liberal democracy.

If you tried to explain this to Wilson he would have looked at you like you were retarded. Even Harding, who owned a copy of "The Rising Tide of Color", never really comprehended the magnitude of the problem.

>>18682439
now this is the one anti-wilson argument I can get behind

>>18685356
what FDR did do was

>create Federal gun control laws
>illegally confiscate people's gold
>vastly expand Federal LEA powers
>create the Office of the President--today the White House has a couple thousand staff members whereas Lincoln fought the Civil War with all of 28 full time staffers.

nobody likes Wilson, just nobody
>liberals hate him for being a racist
>the libertarian right hates him because >>18683050
>the left hates him for deporting and jailing communists and anarchists

>>18685378
>create Federal gun control laws
He didn't though. All he did was pass a Federal machine gun tax and as long as you paid the tax, you could own automatic weapons all the way until the 1980s.

>>18685387
"racist, pro-business, pro-lending, anti-communism, anti-anarchy, pro-security, and pro-deportation" is like a laundry list of things the silent majority supports.

Wilson is probably the favorite president of historically illiterate normal white-collar people who don't know he's their favorite president.

>>18685504
>pro-business
he wasn't though? he put a bunch of nanny state regulations on business.

He was Richard Nixon's favorite president lol.

>>18685538
>nanny state
"nanny state" was the term conservatives used to mean a government that coddles individual citizens with welfare and taxes on soda and cigarettes and speed limits, not just "government that does anything"

The point of Wilson's anti-trust laws was to break up monopolies and encourage competition. He was obviously pro-business and was hated by all anti-business types for creating the Fed and an elastic money supply.

>>18682451
The greatest thing he ever did.

>>18685294
Still, because the Founders were such geniuses, it was not nearly as bad as it could have been. Jonathan Pollard wouldn't have walked out of jail in 28 years if he was convicted of spying in China or Iran, and he certainly wouldn't get appeals and access to lawyers that whole time. He'd just be lined up in front of a wall and shot.

>>18685538
>La Follette Merchant Seaman's Act
>cause price of US shipping to treble and make it uncompetitive with other nations' merchant fleets
>Keating-Owen Act (prohibition on child labor)
>tossed by the Supreme Court
Good job, Woodrow.

>>18682432
I agree for the most part, but I think the restrictions on free speech during ww1 were wrong. The republic was strong enough to handle people being allowed to criticize the war, the draft, the president, and the flag. Sentencing people to 10 years in prison just for speech was contrary to fundamental american values.

>>18685306
Send it back, I ordered lolbert seethe at Wilson signing the bill that created the federal reserve.

>>18685378
>illegally confiscate people's gold
Was it actually illegal, or you just dislike it?

what I'm getting from this thread is that Wilson was a great president and also literally me

>>18685766
The FR (commonly used criticism of Wilson by basic bitch libertarians) is a red herring to distract from the real police state stuff he did.

>>18685771
I think its funny that politics has developed in such a way that every ideology finds reasons to hate him.

>>18682432
Honestly I've never seen an argument against any politician that wasn't either lolbert seething, libtard seething, leftard seething, conservatard seething, anarchytard seething, nazitard seething, or centard seething

>>18685773
actually it's more on Coolidge. the original Federal Reserve Act of 1913 charted it for 20 years, and it would have expired in 1933 but he made the charter permanent.

Harding is an underrated president for ending Wilson's police state and freeing his political prisoners.

>>18682432
>Campaigned on not bringing us into WW1
>Dragged us into WW1

>>18682439
Fpbp
>>18685371
Also very good post, Wilson was a Democrat so removed from our modern political arena that his detractors are amazingly diverse whilst most of their complaints are amazingly out of touch with the world of the 1910s.

>>18685793
>whilst most of their complaints are amazingly out of touch with the world of the 1910s

meaning, what exactly?

>>18685790
What happened in between those things? Anything krautish? Something that smells like sauerkraut and salsa?

>>18682432
this man created Albania. he's currently in Hell for that.

>>18685806
not remembering either that legalizing drugs at the Federal level doesn't also legalize them at the state level

>>18685797
Taking two of the biggest complaints I see about him by two of the loudest groups - the Federal Reserve and segregation.
>Fed
The Federal Reserve was not seen as some monstrous thing that was out of control like the modern one is, it was extremely popular at the time as a way to better handle the panics that seemed to happen every ten or so years within the American economy. Opinions on the actual Reserve itself aside, you would have difficulty finding an alternative Democratic Presidential candidate in the 1910s who would not support it, the same with a Republican. People blame him for creating it because they hate it one hundred years after the fact without understanding the context in which it was born.
>Seg
People point to the desegrated offices as though it was the natural state of things that Wilson ran at and smashed apart. A lot of it just came to be because the bureaucracy of many of these relatively new institutions was in it's infancy, if integration was a touchy subject in the 1960s and 1970s then it was simply not a real discussion in the 1910s. Again, avoiding personal opinions on the subject, many people have this idea that segregation could have been ended by some people being just a bit more liberal as early as the mid 1800s which simply ignores the culture of that era and the response it would have got from the majority of the population. It is often the ones who think the Radical Republicans post-civil war were an objective force for good that hate Wilson for this, likewise ignoring how dangerous the rhetoric of the Radicals was considered by even many staunch Unionists and how deeply unpopular integration was.

Now for the record I am not some big Wilson guy, I just think the performative hate for him is strange.

>>18685826
except it didn't do anything to prevent the Great Depression

>>18682432
He was a democrat cuck that commified new jersey so bad delaware became the corprate law capital of america

>>18685828
The thing that happened almost ten years after he left office? That had three Presidents between him and it? That's a bit unfair to lay the blame at his feet. It's also quite a complicated subject, at least trying to prevent it without hindsight. Imagine being the one man in the 1920s saying that this gravy train should slow down.

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>>18682432
>I've never seen an argument against Woodrow Wilson that wasn't either lolbert seething, economic illiteracy, or libtard seething.
I suggest you read Diplomacy.

From "Lies My Teacher Told Me"

Woodrow Wilson carried out two anti-democratic policies: racial segregation of the Federal government and military interventions in foreign countries. He was an outspoken white supremacist, his wife was even worse and told "darkie" stories in cabinet meetings. Spurred by The Birth of a Nation, William Simmons of Georgia reestablished the KKK. The racism seeping down from the White House encouraged this Klan. Wilson was not only anti-black; he was also far and away our most nativist president, repeatedly questioning the loyalty of those he called "hyphenated Americans". In 1917 Woodrow Wilson started sending secret monetary aid to the "White" side of the Russian Civil War. This aggression fueled the suspicions that motivated the Soviets during the Cold War. To oppose the United States' participation in World War I, or even to be pessimistic about it, was dangerous. After World War I, the Wilson Administration's attacks on civil liberties increased, now with anti-communism as the excuse. Neither before nor since these campaigns has the United States come closer to being a police state. Under Wilson, the United States intervened in Latin America more often than at any other time in history. Woodrow Wilson's interventions in Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Nicaragua set the stage for the dictators Batista, Trujillo, the Duvaliers, and the Somozas.

Fuck yeah Woodrow Wilson

the three most fascist historical presidents:

#1 Andrew Jackson: Often considered the most authoritarian among early presidents, Jackson defied the Supreme Court, implemented harsh policies against Native Americans, and had a strong populist and nationalist rhetoric.

#2 Richard Nixon: His involvement in the Watergate scandal, use of intelligence agencies against political enemies, and attempts to undermine democratic institutions place him high on this list.

#3 Woodrow Wilson: His administration saw significant attacks on civil liberties during World War I, including the suppression of dissent, and he re-segregated the Federal government.

>>18685922
>>18685926
hero patriot legend

Wilson's reputation was just about nonexistent at his death in 1924 and both him and TR were regarded as low-tier presidents throughout the 1920s-30s that nobody liked. Only in the 50s was Wilson revived.

Dragged the US into WW1, ensuring there'd be a WW2.

>>18687417
>dragged the US into WW1
That was the Germans
>WW2
Wilson is arguably the least guilty of this based on his ideas for a peace with Germany.

>>18682439
SPBP

>>18687436
It actually s*rbs

>>18685329
>Wilson was literally the peak liberal.

Self determination (ethnonationalism) is a liberal ideology though the useful idiots who promote internationalism often disagree.

>>18687436
Your brain is smooth enough. Stop polishing.

>>18685926
Same with Lincoln.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiQUXlw1sH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOpuelmCk4A

>>18685926
Throdore Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, most modern presidents, these are the fascist adjacent. Lincoln gets a pass due to Civil War.

>>18685504
Most people arent Pro-Business and if you aren't a cuck, pro free speech. What happened to Eugene Debs was an act of tyranny frankly and it goes to show Americans are cucked for going off to fight in WW1 which didn't concern us ultimately and not lynching Wilson.

>>18687582
>Americans are cucked for going off to fight in WW1 which didn't concern us ultimately and not lynching Wilson.
sounds like you don't have a very good grasp on what "most people" think

>>18685800
well, he was smuggling munitions to the uk through passenger liners in an active war zone for starters

>>18682432
Just sounds to me like he misunderstood the world. He went in with ideas, maybe good ones, and accomplished none of em.

>>18685371
I know an upper-class wasp academic who is exactly like that. he's technically in charge of the building but you wouldn't know it because he knows how to operate indirectly and maintain a low profile.

the jews have nothing on these people.

>>18687544
>Throdore Roosevelt
What exactly did he do that was fascist adjacent? Trust busting? Mogging Spain?

>>18687921
he carried a big stick.

>>18685790
Germany dragged America into war, not Wilson. The situartion genuinely had changed between when wilson ran for president on neutrality and when congress declared war on Germany. The Germans started unrestricted submarine warfare knowing that it would lead to the US entering the war, but did it anyway hoping they could capitulate france before it mattered. They also did the zimmerman telegram which was a highly aggressive act, and admitted it was genuine.

>>18687907
I've experienced the exact same thing. It's pretty unbelievable considering the demographic turnover this country has experienced since the 1990s, but it's always been Digby Sears-Hawthorne, 13th generation American, that's been the one holding the project together at work. He's the one actually thinking about what's going on and coming up with an idea, then the Asians follow his lead and put in 80 hours/week of grunt work.

I'm really curious what direction this country will take, since as far as I can tell, there's been no demographic resurgence. No matter how aware they are of the precariousness of their population status, the WASPs have not gone TRAD and started having a ton of kids again.

It's fine if Poles or Italians don't have kids because really there's no one who could "replace" them, no matter how much fearmongering there is over EU immigration. But America is still locked in internal demographic battle.

>>18688023
>No matter how aware they are of the precariousness of their population status, the WASPs have not gone TRAD and started having a ton of kids again.

I think this video perfectly sums up the attitude of the wasp elite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFvkxK4Qsis&t=15

i.e. no matter what happens just keep calm and carry on.

>>18683050
>guy who locked people up during the war for disagreeing with the war,
Collaborating with the ennemy or blocking the war effort is not free speech but in a good state.
>original Espionage Act.
But there are no issues with the Sedition Act and the Espionage Act, so seethe harder you anti-US troll.

>>18685926
>>18685926
>Jackson defied the Supreme Court
Based, the SC is not the law of the US; only the constitution is.

>implemented strong and lawful policies against the renegade and idle natives.
Fixed.

>His administration saw significant attacks on civil liberties during World War I
Nope.
>including the suppression of dissent
Nope, only seditious individuals were lawfully targeted.

>>18687889
That's strike one, what else did the Germans do to guarantee American entry into the war? Something undeniably stupid by a German foreign secretary perhaps?

>>18687921
"Today he is heralded as the architect of the modern presidency, as a world leader who boldly reshaped the office to meet the needs of the new century."
Ackshually, he wasn't fascist adjacent. He was the first fascist.

libtards hate him because racism
lolberts hate him because central banking
commies hate him for deporting them
conservatards hate him for his progressivism
fascists hate him for cucking germany

>>18688443
he is the silent majority president.

The politically-detached, checked-out normalfag is racist, enjoys taking out loans, is indifferent to mass deportations since he senses the country is overcrowded and wouldn't mind it shrinking, doesn't want to retvrn to trad America, and is happy we won ww1

>>18688355
I still don’t know how this is fascist.