>Potatoes and tomatoes are from the Americas and weren't introduced to Europe until the 1500'sWhat the hell were the Irish and Russians eating before potatoes? What the hell were the Italians eating before tomatoes?
>>18682565Bread
>>18682565>irish Oats>russiansBuckwheat
>>18682565We didn't let the Irish have food lol
>>18682565Friendly reminder that Spain literally changed the world forever in many different ways.You are welcome.
>>18682598>spain brought rats, weeds, and diseases to the americas
>>18682660It was inevitable, if they didn't someone else would, even if it was like, a random ass chinese trader.
Its kind of funny how much of a misconception people have about Italian food, they think its all pizza and spaghetti when in reality most of them eat fish dishes
>>18682598wtf I thought coffee and bananas came from South America
Olives, grapes, dates, and figs
>>18682687So there's nothing to thank Spain for either. Fuck off retarded spicniard.
grain products.Italians eat pasta even today.
>>18682565Potatoes make a poor staple because they can't be stored between seasons so one poor harvest and the population is decimated. They are sure a welcome addition but they're not sufficient alone. It was grains and beans (peas, lentils etc). And fish and meat.
>>18682794>nothing to thank Spain for eitherimagine mexican food with no beef, cheese, rice or onions
>>18682565>Italians before tomatoesPomegranates were used for sauces. Apples make good sauces too.
>>18682565I would have hoped they’d be eating peaches, cherries, and plum aka Stone Tree Fruit when they aren’t drinking cow’s milk or buttery food. In fact out of all the salad bars in my town atm I love to go to Mr Gattis because they always have canned peaches at their salad bar. Although it’s not fresh peaches, it still makes a salad fresh. It’s interesting that dandelion and milk thistle is considered weeds when they are actually better than cbd. The world is just insane and needed CBD because it’s close cousin to marijuana. Those plants contain their own oils that heal just as much. It’s like mesquite trees, they grow everywhere and America used to not have them. Now they are everywhere. You couldn’t watch western tv shows and see a single mesquite. At least goats love to eat the beans I guess.
>>18682598Thanks for the quinine, Spain.
>>18682565Nettles, acorns, grass soup, that sort of thing. Turnips too.
>>18682565>What the hell were the Irish and Russians eating before potatoes?Oats, rye, buckwheat, regular wheat, beats, turnips, they had to basically eat the lower quality, less desirable, more weather-resistant cereals. Before potatoes most Europeans, especially colder climates, organized agriculture in what was called the "open-field system": pic related, all the little serf/renter houses in one spot, surrounded by their private vegetable gardens, and then most of the surrounding land is a massive turn-table grid for growing cereals with entire sections left seasonal fallow and/or left for pasture. The cereal was collectively harvested, distributed, and the lord took his cut from rent/taxes/etc.. With the only thing the peasants owned privately being the vegetables in their gardens. POTATOES actually reversed this process: with potatoes you could feed an entire family for a year on nothing but the land they had in their private gardens, you didn't have to give them ANY grain, so they could effectively work for free now.
>>18682565Poor Northern Europeans mostly ate rye, barley, turnips, and fish. Rich Northern Europeans ate that plus wheat, beef, pork, and mutton.>>18682598>Friendly reminder that Mesoamericans and Andeans literally changed the world forever in many different ways.:)
Cabbage, barley bread, anything else that grows in lower sunlight. Russians in particular lived off beets.
>>18682754coffee originally comes from the area around the Red Sea, Ethiopia and Yemen mostly
>>18682565https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/5/oa_monograph/chapter/3178782/pdfhttps://www.jstor.org/content/oa_chapter_monograph/j.ctv2ngx5f5.10?seq=1https://archive.org/stream/508811524-with-the-bravest-the-untold-story-of-the-sulu-freedom-fighters-of-world-war-ii.mpdf/508811524-WITH-THE-BRAVEST-The-Untold-Story-of-the-Sulu-Freedom-Fighters-of-World-War-II.mpdf_djvu.txthttps://archiveswest.orbiscascade.org/ark:80444/xv31134https://pacificwrecks.com/location/philippines_jolo.htmlhttp://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/J/o/Jolo.htmhttps://www.face.book.com/story.php?story_fbid=27263934293193079&id=ronaldo.narag.1https://www.face.book.com/asreeelaji/photos/97-tentera-jepun-di-jolo-dibunuh-oleh-tausug-biar-betul-kau-ni-chatgpt-soalanhi-/4390900307803671/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lushai_Brigade
>>18682598Is it me, or are the new world crops way better than the old world ones, and the old world livestock is way better than the new world livestock? Either way, thanks Spain. You united sugar, chocolate, coffee, vanilla, and dairy to make some of the best things in life.
>>18683713>Is it me, or are the new world crops way better than the old world ones, and the old world livestock is way better than the new world livestock?It's one of the singular biggest quirks of geography and a literal ton of environmental and agricultural historians, anthropologists, have commented on this exact thing. Because a lot of the new world crops are just unilaterally better: potatoes alone feed possibly an additional 2 billion people, never mind corn and sweet potatoes. But then the old world has all the livestock: the introduction of the pig (and to a lesser extent goats) is one the singular most leading 'agri-economic' factor that finally stopped cannibalism from being popular in places like Mexico and Papau New Guinea. And any kind of entry level automation is basically impossible for a society without some kind of draft animal: in the old world the wheelbarrow and the wind/water mill came AFTER the conan-style "wheel of pain" manual mills pulled by slaves and donkeys, but in Mesoamerica they spent their entire existence using people as draft animals. It's really interesting when you get down into the personal details. Even just the rabbit hole over how
>>18683755Excuse me, hit enter too soon and didn't realize I hadn't finished my last thought.*Even just the rabbit hole over how, under the scrutiny of modern day genetics, cattle and pigs were such immediately popular "knew a good thing when they saw it" kinds of beasts that they were domesticated in several places.
>>18683755Old World has way more live-stock and indeed they did provide far more protein and resources. But unlike New World crops which came with little downsides, Old World live-stock came with so many deadly diseases that was feared until modern times. Smallpox, tuberculosis, anthrax, measles, influenza, brucellosis, and like a hundred others. Literally the reason why cities like Tenochtitlan were so clean was because they lacked any live stock and didn't have to deal with animal manure or plague outbreaks. Of course in the centuries following contact nearly all Indigenous Americans died cause their ancestors were never exposed to such diseases.
>>18683774>But unlike New World crops which came with little downsides,[Phylloxera has entered the chat]Seriously though the various botanical diseases of the New World were every bit as nasty as old world diseases.>Old World live-stock came with so many deadly diseases that was feared until modern times. Smallpox, tuberculosis, anthrax, measles, influenza, brucellosis, and like a hundred others.It's hard to have livestock diseases when you don't have livestock. In ALL of the New World you had llamas, alpacas, guinea pigs, dogs and muscovy ducks and only the ducks and dogs were found outside of the Andes.
>>18682598>blacks not on the chart
>poorfag cope food saves civilisation once againyou love to see it
>>18683755Not a single precontact people that practiced cannibalism relied on human meat consumption as a regular part of their diet, it's always a sporadic religious thing to either honor their ancestors or powerful enemies, or to absorb their magical powers. Certain Papuan tribes continued the practice for thousands of years after Austronesian migrants brought pigs to the island, and the final vestiges stopped after Commonwealth patrol officers with guns pacified them and told them to stop, lest they be lightly genocided. Otherwise I agree that pigs are a wonderful animal to be domesticated, a herd being a rechargeable battery of fast-growing calories that can turn waste into stored food.Rice is far more insnsively cultivated than potato and feeds billions of people more as a staple crop. The biggest plus of wet rice is that there's no laborious weeding involved nor does the land need to be constantly fertilized.>>18682754The banana is an important plant of the "Neolithic package" of Austronesian-speakers (for its leaves and fiber, the fruit is just a bonus) and settlers who immediately recognized its value when they encountered it in New Guinea brought it along with them everywhere they went across Asia and Oceania.
>>18683884>Rice is far more intensively cultivated than potato and feeds billions of people more as a staple crop.But rice has far more restricted growing climate. Only Southern Europe can grow rice while taters grow even in Lapland.
>>18683925There aren't 2 billion people growing potatoes at the latitude of Lapland, and why the fixation on Europe?
>>18683985The Ming empire had a massive surge in population after they started using new world crops.
>>18683993As a famine food to supplement the rice-wheat combo? I don't doubt the value of potatoes in preventing famines when used in combination with food the peasants normally eat, but estimates of China's population growth I've seen don't look that impressive in the century or so between Europeans sailing to the Americas and China, and the fall of Southern Ming in 1662. Compare the population growth under the Song dynasty in the similar time period 1000-1100 which appears to have been much faster and based on the adoption of better rice cultivars.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty>China's population doubled in size between the 10th and 11th centuries. This growth was made possible by expanded rice cultivation, use of early-ripening rice from Southeast and South Asia, and production of widespread food surpluses.[10][11] The Northern Song census recorded 20 million households, double that of the Han and Tang dynasties. It is estimated that the Northern Song had a population of 90 million people,[12]
>>18684088Oh I it was under Qing. Ming was already too far gone.
>>18683706https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/26100/PS008.pdfhttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/348104922_Testimonial_Narratives_as_Counterhistory_The_Stories_of_Tausug_Survivors_during_the_1974_Battle_of_Jolohttps://aljamiah.or.id/ajis/article/view/62101https://www.positivelyfilipino.com/magazine/the-battle-of-tamparan-and-the-forgotten-moro-heroes-of-world-war-iihttps://www.instagram.com/reel/DWOTwaQks8S/https://www.face.book.com/story.php?story_fbid=122183163446796149&id=elcolonialistahttps://www.face.book.com/story.php?story_fbid=122185966676796149&id=elcolonialistahttps://www.face.book.com/story.php?story_fbid=808138771332294&id=suluhxhttps://www.face.book.com/suluhx/posts/february-71974-february-72024the-battle-of-jolo-aka-the-siege-of-jolo50th-annive/808138771332294/https://www.face.book.com/groups/memoriesoldmanila/posts/3490189501135878/
>>18682598spain was a force of good, not evil as usual
>>18682565Ireland didn't exist before potatoes
>>18683391You are welcome.>>18683621If not for Spain, those crops would still be in America. For example, the first cacao-chocolate was created in a monastery in Spain in 1560 and from there it arrived to the rest of Europe.>>18683713You are welcome. We also changed Asia with many items we took to Filipinas, China, Japan, etc. Even the silver we took to China changed that country forever since they could pay their soldiers with silver. >>18684370True, we have always been the good guys.
>>18683985Cause without potato it's far less likely Northern Europe could have had global empires and those empires defined our modern world. We often forget, but prior to the Columbian Exchange, Northern Europe was far less populated and wealthy compared to Southern Europe.>>18684673This is like giving credit to Arabs for the 0-9 numeral system or the Mongols for gunpowder. Also Polynesians already had some New World crops prior to Columbus cause they had prolonged contact with Andeans.
>>18683881>noooooo you can't eat food that's cheap and tastes good, that's for POOR PEOPLE!! You have to eat the overpriced sea bugs and eggs squeezed out of a fish's vagina!!Kill yourself faggot.
>>18684711Potatoes weren't super heavily cultivated until the later 1700s, after Europe already dominated the globe.
>>18684711>without potato it's far less likely Northern Europe could have had global empires
>>18684711>This is like giving credit to Arabs for the 0-9 numeral system or the Mongols for gunpowder. Also Polynesians already had some New World crops prior to Columbus cause they had prolonged contact with Andeans.Not true. The numeric system was not spread by the arabs to the world. It was something they could have invented for themselves. Spain brought all of those to other continents with the intention to do commerce and to change the world for the better. Spain created the modern world, global commerce, international and maritime law, etc. Changed the alimentation of millions of people, crops made populations grow and create new cities, etc.
>>18685063least delusional moorberian
>>18685071Jelous? And I literally look like an uber nordic.
>>18685108All iberians have negroid and nafri admixture due to moor rape, even if you had blue eyes and blond hair (you don't) you'd still be, by definition, a negroid
>>18683881>Mesoamerican peoples and their elites considered this a literal gift from the gods just for some 4chonger 500 years down the line to call it poorfag foodGrim. I doubt future historians will have any more respect for processed slop we eat today, either.
>Jelous? And I literally look like an uber nordic.
>>18682565>Turnips>Cabbages>Carrots>Beets>Fava beans>Chickpeas>Peas>Thyme>Olives>Mushrooms>Onions>Garlic>Celery>Rice (in southern Spain, Italy, and other regions at the edge of Europe)..are the vegetables. Wheat or barley bread, oat cakes, and oat or wheat porridges were commonly eaten. Eggs from chickens could be obtained easily. Lard and salted fatty pork, fermented butter, beer, and hard cheese supplemented their diets, while condiments such as herbs of many kinds, and simple mustard, horseradish, or vinegar were used. Offal from a noble's hunt, salted or dried fish from merchants, or aged chickens too old to lay eggs were eaten occasionally.Of course, this was the peasant fare. Elites' diets included meats from several animals and fowl, exotic spices, honey, sugar, stuffed game, perishable dairy like cream and soft cheese, almond milk, fish and seafood, and all sorts of bombastic preparations like the cockentrice.
>>18682565Italians didn't even eat tomatoes 100 years ago. They just ate plain pasta because they were too poor to afford tomatoes
>>18685592What about gabagool?
>>18685594ova here
>>18683884>and the final vestiges stopped after Commonwealth patrol officers with guns pacified them and told them to stop, lest they be lightly genocided.Dutch people ate the liver of their own prime minister.Dutch Protestants literally ate their Prime Minister in the 17th century and at executions in Enlightenment era Europe, crowds would gather to drink blood from the victims and human body parts were used in European medicine.
>>18683884>>18685801http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/europe-s-medicinal-cannibalism-the-healing-power-of-death-a-604548.html>Research shows that up until the end of the 18th century, medicine routinely included stomach-churning ingredients like human flesh and blood.>In fact, untill the end of XIX people still used to wait near an execution to collect the dead´s bloodhttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/europes-hypocritical-history-of-cannibalism-42642371/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141858/Tough-news-swallow-Europeans-saw-wrong-cannibalism-1900s-new-books-claim.htmlhttps://resobscura.blogspot.de/2015/12/why-did-seventeenth-century-europeans.htmlhttp://resobscura.blogspot.de/2012/12/early-modern-drugs-and-medicinal.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/humankind-cannabalism-eating-placentas-body-parts-medicine-ingredients-dr-bill-schutt-edited-a7541896.html>But what surprised Schutt most during his exploration of cannibalism was its use in Europe for hundreds of years from the Renaissance era until the late 18th century.>The upper-classes and members the British Royalty applied, drank or wore concoctions prepared from human body parts including bones, flesh, fat, liver, oil distilled from the human brain, smashed-up heart, bladder stones, warm blood, breast milk, and extracts of gall. Among its more high-profile advocates were Charles I, King Francis I of France, the poet John Donne, scientist and Francis Bacon.>“That to me shocking given the Western taboo of cannibalism when it’s arguably the worst thing you can do. It was so widespread. Because of a mistranslation for a long time it was believed that you could make various medicinal treatments from Egyptian mummies for binding wounds, and so this lead to a run on mummies and a shortage to the point people were taking corpses and mummifying them for a few hundred years."
>>18682598The fall of the Spanish Empire is history's worst tragedy.
>>18682565turnips, parsnips, onions
>>18683713Whatever caused the Younger Dryas, devastated major animal populations in north Americas far more than it did across Eurasia and the subsequent indigenous American populations were better at domesticating plant species, maybe out of necessity.All edible plant species have been bred over thousands of years to be edible. None of them are natural.
>>18685841give me some reggaeton recs pancho
>>18682598Spain introduced peanuts and chili peppers to China. Thank you for the Kung Pao chicken, Columbus.
>>18683884Veganism cope. If they had proper nutrition from agriculture they wouldnt feel the need to consume the flesh of humans.
>>18682598the old world had their own beans THOUGHtamarind is a bean, evolved in africa but wide spread in south and southeast asia for thousands of years.>>18683713south america is one of the most biodiverse regions and it shows more prominently in edible plants than edible animals/livestocks which are few in species but large in population. tropical and subtropical asia also has great biodiversity, especially maritime southeast asia. delicious as they are, a lot were not introduced as widely except for something mangos and bananas. possibly because most of the exchange happened between europe and americas, not americas and asia. interestingly, brazil and carribean are have indian mangos, while pacific coast of america has philippine mangos.i can imagine a twist in events where pandan could have been a more popular trade good the same way as vanilla. nutmeg, cinnamon, and to an extent cardamom are also mostly from south and southeast asia.one could make the argument for sugarcane coming from south east asia, but it was already wide spread in the old world during the time of the exchange.true sago is superior to fake sago from cassava, but not as easily cultivated.
>>18682911why wouldn't it have rice or onions at least if it was a random chinese trader that found the new expansion? maybe it would feature pork heavily rather than beef and fermented bean curd rather than cheese.
>>18685958The Chinese and Mexicans both ate dog so nothing would change
>>18686117>In Spain there is a widespread hunting tradition that involves torturing and killing approximately 60,000 Greyhounds (Galgos) a year. >Greyhounds are repeatedly abused and starved by hunters during the hunting season and then left to die a slow gruesome death when they are deemed no longer useful. It is believed that the longer the dogs suffer, the more prosperous the following hunting season will be.>The dogs are often slowly killed by hanging them by their necks so that their hind legs barely touch the ground, swaying back and forth for days until they starve and die of exhaustion, or they are beaten with rocks and thrown into pits and wells without food or water, and sometimes even buried alive. why are you moorberians like this
>>18686123Greyhound abuse/abandonment is rampant everywhere there's dog racetracks. It's really bad in the US.
>>18686136with all the jocksniffing of moorberians by the spics here i just assumed moorberians would've been above that kind of slumdog behavior
>>18682754what do you think African monkeys were eating before Bananas?
>>18685153this is the issue with you nordicistsa person could look like the blondest palest you'll ever find, but because they had an ancestor nth generations back who was from anatolia or somewhere, they're automatically black
>>18685153Whatever you say...I score 100% European. Now post your picture and your DNA. >>18685929Italian-americans named it the "Columbus Exchange" when Columbus was already death decades earlier before Spain did all the Exchange that you see in the picture. All countries want to steal our merit. So, yes, Spain introduced that to China and also silver which allowed the Chinese emperors to expand their territories because it allowed them to get more soldiers because they could pay them with the silver Spain brought to China.
>>18687012>I score 100% European.Commercial dna tests lump mongrelized iberians with african admixture as fully european, dna studies prove you're an african rapebaby however
>>18682751the most common coffee bean is called arabica. but you might be forgiven for thinking coffee is of new world origin, because coffee use only became popular first within the muslim world and then slowly in Europe in the 15th and 16th century, so around the same time new world "products" landed there. >>18686848bananas have been in africa for probably less than 3000 years. monkeys eat all kinds of fruits and berries (among other things).
>>18682598>that mapBRB, gonna head out to Yukon to pick me some nice pumpkins
>>18682571Buckwheat was an import from like 1500.Historical sources say panicgrass being popular, archeology shows rye, winter rye in particular seems to spread with the slavs.
they were eating girl dinners
