Realistically, how long could Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan have survived with these borders without further expansion?
>>18695752My understanding is that the extremely high spending on military rearmament was entirely unsustainable and that they were essentially months away from an economic collapse before the war started and only stayed afloat from looting conquered nations.
>>18695752Germany and Japan are import economies. They can only survive if major trading powers (Britain and America) have good relations with them. Since that wasn't the case, they were both effectively forced to expand
>>18695804Somewhat true, but they didnt go to war because of the economy. There is no evidence to ever suggest this. The only historian who argues this is Adam Tooze.An economy is organic and will always ebb and flow, even in a total collapse it will rebound.Going to war is also extremely expensive (just ask modern USA and Russia), plus in the event of war Germany would be cut off from all overseas trade as well as most of the circulation of foreign currency which would obviously make the economy worse.So if we play with the idea that Hitler backs off from invading Poland, what then?First order of the day would be to immediately demobilize and halt militarization, the entire 4-year-plan, to balance the budget.After that Göring and Hitler would have to blame someone for the MEFO scam and why they owe businesses billions of reichmarks, and why inflation is suddenly skyrocketing from the budget deficit.I can imagine NSDAP will do some heavy antisemitic propaganda campaigns to 'explain' the situation. Hell even Venezuelas Maduro managed to convince his loyal supporters that everything was the fault of the enemy within and outside. Dont even start on Mugabe, and the people simply had to carry on.
>>18695815This is just cope, their relations with Britain and America were passable before they started aggressively expanding. In Germany's case they didn't deteriorate until the Sudentland crisis and for Japan it wasn't even the invasion of China but the occupation of french indochina which sparked the embargo.
>>18695915Germany always had extremely poor relations with America. They had passable relations with the UK that deteriorated with time
>>18695857>but they didnt go to war because of the economyIt was the other way, they wanted war, and economy was only meant to serve the war. Hitler and nazis weren't thinking much about economy in the first place, their thought was>First we conquer everything and then we figure out how to use it good If we assume that Hitler and all the other nazis suddenly have change of heart and no longer want war and demobilize, their economy would do just fine, Germany was the second biggest industrial power of the world and they had a strong economic sway over many Middle-European countries.Of course, this economy would be heavily depended on importing resources from overseas, and that was the main reason behind WW2
>>18695804>My understanding is that the extremely high spending on military rearmament was entirely unsustainable and that they were essentially months away from an economic collapse before the war started and only stayed afloat from looting conquered nations.your understanding is completely wrong because Germany's debt to GDP ratio only WORSENED after going to war.>lootinglooting what? the vast reserves of Polish gold?
>>18695915>aggressively expandingwhat does this even mean?Where's the aggression in a German defensive war against Poles invading Danzig a German city?
>>18695915How does that debunk the fact Germany and Japan are import economies and therefore reliant on the UK and America?If the Germans wanted to be independent from America (which they did) they was forced to expand. Germany wanted an alliance with the British but when it became apparent this wasn't going to happen it caused them to accelerate the schedule toward war.The same is true for the Japanese. They also desired a good relationship with the UK against America but when it became apparent the British were in the same camp as the Americans it forced their hand toward rapid expansionism.The world wars largely came about due to nations trying to break free from American economic hegemony, after failing to secure Great Britain as an ally, and then making a desperate bid for dominance in their respective spheres
>>18695915Maybe Japan and Germany didn't want to accept American hegemony over themselves?Believe it or not it was obvious even back then that America was an unstable racially-divided mafia state
>>18695965>they wanted warno, they didnt, this is a myth pushed by revisionists who want to Whitewash Poland, Britain, and France all of whom aggressively pushed for war against Germany because they didnt like that they were devastated by WWI and Germany somehow recovered via wotanic magic.>first we conquer everything>put forth an unfalsifiable claim then build an argument around itfuck off.Look at their actions, if they wanted war, theyd have waited longer, Goering said only the land forces would be ready, the head of the Navy said he'd need AT LEAST till 1943 to be ready, Hitler himself kept calling off the invasion of Poland, something he did twice because he felt that Poland's ambiguity may have revealed a genuine desire for diplomacy.The actual invasion of Poland which started WWII proper occurred only after the Danzig security forces phoned the OKH personnel and told them Poland was invading.Furthermore, the OKH chief of staff plotted to have Hitler killed if Hitler went to war LMFAO.That alone is the biggest case against an aggressive Germany LOOOOOOOLThis will become common knowledge on /his/ soon because I I I I I I myself found it and the shiteating R1ape Slav(e)s here are going to think of a new cope.Yeah, Halder of the OKH planned to have Hitler shot in a "misfire" if war broke out.THE SOLE REASON THIS DIDNT HAPPEN WAS BECUASE GERMANY WAS ATTACKED BY POLANDI bet none of you knew that kek.
>>18695974>what does this even mean?Seizing and dismembering Czechoslovakia after stelling everyone else you wouldn't do that, plus unilaterally taking land from Lithuania in early 1939.
>>18695986Czechoslovakia was dismembered by the Slovak parliament
@18695985Bro i'm not reading all of that angry ranting, format your posts better if you want to participate
>>18695984There was no American hegemony beyond the western hemisphere before ww2
>>18695994The US became the dominant economy in the world after WW1
>>18695989At the instigation of the Germans
>>18695986>Seizing and dismembering Czechoslovakia>things that never happened.lol.Hacha asked to become a Reichsprotectorate after Poland invaded, Hungary invaded, and Slovakia revolted.There was no "Czechoslovakia" it was "Bohemia and Moravia with their claims in defacto Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia".>unilaterallyyou mean when Lithuania and Germany had a closed door meeting and Lithuania agreed to WITHDRAW THEIR OCCUPATION FORCE in memel???None of these were driven by Germany.Where's the aggression?besides, even if Germany declared a formal war and launched an invasion, well so what? America launched invasions throughout the 20s of LATAM statelets.Britain launched an expedition into West Asia to crush 10% of the Arab population of the Levant which wasnt pro-British or pro-Jewish enough.>heh yeah those are bad too because all imperialism is bad worgers of da worl unitelol, fucking evil leftist orc.Karl Marx in his "On the Eastern Question" said Germany should invade The Russian Empire and exterminate the mongol-slavs.imperialism isnt even bad, youre just anti-White.youre also ignorant of the leftrist doctrine on imperialism which never ever declares it a unanimous evil.>im not a leftistyou fucking argue like one.you are free to cope and meltdown at my post now.
>>18696001>ctrl+f "leftist" 0 results before your post who tf are you even arguing with?
japs and germonkeys always get raped by Soviet and American heroes
>>18695999>Germans created the three century old animosity between Prague and Bratislava in 1938lol.it wasnt instigated by the Germans, it was instigated by Poland taking free land without any oversight.If Germany wanted war, by even bother with Munich in the first place?>Britain forced itThe Germans invited the Czechs to talk BEFORE Britain was even involved.also that "Czech" industry.Wasnt Czech, you didnt know that for some reason.It was Austrian and was literally nationalized out of Austria when Austria was banned from even police actions.
>>18696001>None of these were driven by Germany.>Where's the aggression?The aggression is when the closed door meeting you mention was preceded by not so subtle hints that if they refused it would be war
>>18696008I am arguing with someone who is making leftist arguments, obvious by their bad-faith and their framing of nation-states exerting power as le bad.
>>18696013Why do you keep inventing and then responding to arguments no one is making in this thread?
>>18695752Saint Stalin and his Bolshevik Crusaders would crush the child torturing nazi vermin just like they did in real life
>>18696015>was preceded by not so subtle hints that if they refused it would be warLets keep this to non-fiction only.Do you mean not so subtle hints like when Britain threatened war with Czechoslovakia if the Czechs didnt permit Britain to oversee their foreign policy?Germany didnt even threaten war, even in the character assassination of Germany, they are more reputable than Britain.
>>18696016nazism are leftist incarnate, they love buttsex and hate religion and tradition, that's why they got completly demolished by Bolshevik Knights
>>18696017ok we are just going to ignore the post.Why are you still in the thread?Why are you fixated on me pre-empting lefties frameworks?Do you think WWII and National Socialism is a nothing burger to Leftists.Theyre the most common denizens of threads like this.
>>18696020>Lets keep this to non-fiction only>proceeds to make shit up
>>18696023heh trolled, polskja W, "hey gwok pway da wimged hussaars awived"
>>186960231945 was when the lefty trany nazis felt the power of God
>>18695752If their long term goal was to gain independence from 'Jewish' Wall Street finance then that would have necessitated a war at some point or another.Hitler even says directly in Mein Kampf that he wants war for this reason
>>18696026??????you made up Germany's invasion of Memel lol. its not a secret Britain imposed themselves on Czechoslovakia after both Berlin and Prague told England to fuck off.Why dont you know that?
>>18696031We're sorry but your delusions about being a real woman will have to end
>>18695965>It was the other way, they wanted war, and economy was only meant to serve the war. I disagree.Many historians argue that the reason Germany 'over-militarized' was more for the purpose of deterrent; by creating a much larger army than Britain and France in the shortest possible time before they can counter-accelerate their own rearmament to match Germany.The idea is to deter them from declaring war in Germany over Poland, by having the largest possible army. A war declaration on Germany would thus mean 'mutual destruction'.The large army was also meant to serve its purpose by simply existing. By having a large army, Germany can diplomatically strongarm her neighbours into the German sphere.This was the original goal of Poland.It's important to remember that Germany never had any actual plans to invade Poland. The plans were drafted on a whim in the spring of 1939 after Poland had refused negotiations to become a junior partner in the German sphere and willingly revise their position on Danzig and the corridor.If Germany had 'always' planned to invade Poland, then the immediate question becomes why had no plans ever been drafted since 1933 or simultaniously with the 4-year-plan rearmament.Hitler originally wanted Poland as a subservient ally akin to Hungary. When Poland refused to play ball, Hitler changed his plans and wanted to forcefully subdue Poland into something similar Slovakia at best (a reduced puppet state), Czechia at worst (a reduced protectorate), while also annexing land that somewhat resembled Imperial Germany.Hitler hoped that Britain and France would 'revoke' their war declaration during the 1939-1940 winter, and that a Polish state could be negotiated. When Britain and France remained firm on their war declaration, the nazies decided that Poland should be erradicated completely.
>>18696033Actually hating bankers and finance monopoly capitalism is Jewish because if you hate banks, interest, and financial monopoly you're basically a communist
>>18695804wow, a genuine high quality FPBP on my 4chanthis place ain't dead yet>>18695967>the vast reserves of Polish gold?Precisely. That and other valuables like works of art and such. And then they stole shit from Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, France and even USSR.
>>18696032Your mother gets fucked by many, saar?
>>18696049The germans never stole gold or valuables from the countries they liberated from Jewish rule thats just a Jewish myth to discredit national socialism
>>18695804Where does this low IQ, retard "understanding" come from?Why is this website so deeply retarded?
>>18696050Cool now lets see all those successful fascist states today
>>18696042Nothing you said really disproves my point, I didn't say they wanted war in Poland, I said that they wanted war. If Poland was vassalized then they would attack France while having Poland guard them aganist USSR, and then conquer the USSR itself, the goal was always a war to achive ataturky and global power status
>>18696053Fucking Russian Prostitutes for the freedom of the West.
>>18696042>When Britain and France remained firm on their war declaration, the nazies decided that Poland should be erradicated completely.Germans started mass exterminating civilians and officers during the invasion in September 39. Weird way to treat Hungary 2.0.
>>18696050We're sorry but the gay orgies for wotan will have to end
>>18696057And now lets see how many of your Western women are getting gang raped by the migrants your leaders love to ship in
>>18696051They quite literally did and are still returning it to this day my fellow /pol/troon.
>>18696065Certainly many cases less than Russia. Tell me, how is the 3-day denazification Operation against Ukraine going?
>>18696057Wait, so NATO is actually wholesome chungus and nafofags are actually based?
>>18696032I'm a National Socialist myself but I can't help but respect the heroic bravery and masculinity of the Red Army. They were true warriors and we got completly outmatched in every sense of this word, Bolshevism is simply superior, there is no need to cope with it
>>18696071the resident AI schizo hates putin unlike 99% neonazis
>>18696070"hey jewgle, I know you're jewish and lie about everything but pwease confirm my biases in this specific case pwetty pwease"
>>18696055It's an interesting debate if Poland had agreed to play ball with Germany and join the anti-comintern pact as was proposed to Beck.Everyone says Hitler would 100% go east and attack the USSR in order to establish his 'continental colonial empire', but one should also remember that France and Britain would obviously not just sit around and watch this unfold and do nothing. Britain and France would never had tolerated a Germany that stretches from the Alps to the Urals. Hitler must have known this, so if he was to ever realise a complete subjugation of the USSR, then he must first neutralize the western powers.And yet we know from protocolls and interviews and diaries etc that Hitler stressed no war with the west, and wanted to do everything he could to keep the west neutral as he expands Germanys influence in central and eastern Europe.It should also be known that with Czechia and the corridor, the Germans had already conquered enough territory that would essentially take a lifetime to assimilate into Germany.
>>18696071Nato and the West in general is based, it's everything the Nazis would have wanted: Import a Helot Class to clean your toilets, sell arms to terrorists so they can commit massacres in the Third World, psyop Communists into becoming negro-worshipping troons. And the libtarded nafo fag are doing the world a favour by dismantling the myth that the Russian Military ever did anything more sophisticated than human waves.
>>18696070Well given that I'm not a Russian and I think the Russian government is a capitalist oligarchy that only larps as pro-soviet to win over nostalgic boomers i am not inclined to care
>>18696080You didn't answer my question, how is the 3-day special Military operation against the Nazis in Ukraine going?
>>18696083Is this how you cope with getting BTFO'd in every war your failed pathetic ideology has ever fought?
>>18696076So he actually loves all the gay shit and Europe being flooded with browns? What a peculiar creature
>>18696088The USSR itself called Nato and the West fascist and a good comrade like you certainly will not disagree with the politbuerau, won't you? I still see Nato sticking around, but no USSR. Only a Third world shithole providing us with fresh prostitutes.
>>18696093So you cope by living in an imaginary world that only existed in the minds of soviet propagandists? Very interesting.
>>18696059You clearly didnt read my post properlyRead it again.Hungary 2.0 was only if Poland had agreed to all negoation demands and placed itself in the German playing field.Poland didnt do this, and firmly refused all demands on January 1939.This is when plans shifted. Poland was to be subdued into the German sphere by force, either to become Slovakia (a subservient puppet state), or Czechia (a reduced protectorate).And yes you're right, once the Germans actually decided that force was the way forward with Poland, and simultaniously planned and prepared to kill off the Polish elite (basically anyone who could lead an independent polish nation and identity, thus reducing the Poles to serfs), then it's probably safe to guess that Poland, even if given independence after a formal surrender, would have been treated like Czechia after Munich; a pledge to honor polish independence, only for the wehrmacht to march into Warsaw when no one is looking, and turned into a protectorate.
>>18696076If by AI you mean Asian Immigrant then yes
>>18696081>It's an interesting debate if Poland had agreed to play ball with Germany and join the anti-comintern pact as was proposed to Beck.It would be a complete diaster for Poland if they entered Axis. And while Beck was somehow a germanophile, he never really considered any kind of alliance with Hitler, Poland was always meant to be the ally of the West>but one should also remember that France and Britain would obviously not just sit around and watch this unfold and do nothingThey wouldn't, France would attack Germany if they tried to invade USSR, that's why Hitler wanted to invade France first>Hitler stressed no war with the westIt was more like no war with UK, France was always on the chopping block, of course they would be mercifully allowed to live, but in a Germany-dominated Europe
>>18696094When your own idols are agreeing with me, perhaps you should reasses your thinking.
>>18696057>Serving in the military = naziCome on anon, are you from reddit?There isnt a single historian in the world that argues that anyone who was in the wehrmacht was instantly a nazi.
>>18696103They were Nazis and it was a good thing. They mass killed slavs in WW2 and helped the West to turn Communist countries into bordels for the BWC sex tourists.
>>18696103>are you from reddit?I also regularly post there but I'm not a redditor because I used 4chan first
>>18696107And the award for the most delusional poster on /his/ goes to...
>>18696111>no, my hecking wholesome Nato generals were not hecking evil nazirinosCope, fascist BVLLS saved the West
>>18696095I mean to me it's a technicality whether you call it Hungary 2.0, Czechia 2.0, Slovakia 2.0 the point it's generally the same. None of them got mass genocided out off the gate. My problem was with you suggesting that Germany actually decided to eradicate Poland in early 1940, when they already started doing that in Sep 39.
>>18696114but Saint Stalin and his Bolshevik Warriors saved the West from pagan child torturing nazi trannies
>>18695752If Germany stopped with Czechoslovakia and Japan stopped with Manchuria, they would both hold their territories indefinitely. France and Britain wouldn't have fought Germany without them invading Poland and China was still amidst their own turmoil with Chiang having no interest in confronting Japan before unity, though there'd be skirmishes most likely.
>>18696098>It would be a complete diaster for Poland if they entered Axis.Depends on who you ask.Poland had many fascist elements. Ultra-nationalist quasi-dictatorship with a vehemntly antisemitic society. Endecja wanted to 'polanize' its eastern population.Who knows how Hitler would have treated a complying Poland. Perhaps like they treated Romania; i.e annexation of western parts but offering territory to the east. This is what Imperial Germany did when they gave Poland formal independence in 1917. The plan was to ethnically cleanse Germany of ethnic Poles dumping them in the newely created state, and to chop parts of Imperial Russia and giving it to Poland to act as a powerful eastern buffer state.With hindsight we know that Poland 'won' from ww2 by annexing Germany territories, but in 1939 Poland did face a real crossroad, and we can never truly know what would have happened if Poland had joined the Axis. Poland never saw itself as 'naturally allied' with the west, Britains guarantee was never consulted with Poland, and the even the Poles themselves did not really know how to react to the British guarantee at first, until formal relations were established on April when Beck traveled to London.
>>18696114>checks the biography for one of the people in your image>...was involved in the 20 July Plotyeah sounds like a dedicated fascist to me
>>18696018The sitting woman is almost the same height as Stalin is. Why are Russian "men" like this?
>>18696118>My problem was with you suggesting that Germany actually decided to eradicate Poland in early 1940, when they already started doing that in Sep 39.No I just said that it seems like the most likely scenario that they would have played the same game with Poland as they did with Czechia.By that I mean they would have taken western territory of Poland in a peace agreeement, and 'pledge' this was their final demand. You would thus have a much more reduced yet independent Polish state.The Germans would then find a moment where they could claim that the Polish state is in dire need of 'protection' to justify the Wehrmacht marching in and taking control.Just as what happened on March 15 1939 in Prague.The fact that they started killing off the Polish elite simultaniously with the invasion suggests that they were never going to let Poland truly govern itself ever again. It was going to be a German satelite/puppet state/protectorate. Whever you prefer.But again, this only happened after they had refused all negotiations with Germany, which firmly ruled out turning Poland into a Hungary 2.0 as what may have been the original plan, had Poland played along.
>>18696124It doesn't matter how facists was Poland or how Hitler would treat them. They would be joining a madman in his unrealistic quest of conquering the world, millions of Poles would die in Soviet Union, only to end in the losers camp.Poland would share the fate of Romania, Hungary and other satelites, for whom allying with Germany was a catastrophe
>>18695915This post is fact
>>18696136>They would be joining a madman in his unrealistic quest of conquering the worldHis goal was not to "conquer the world" but okay.His goal was to establish a continental hegemony.The whole "conquer the world" argument was allied propaganda, unironically by imperial powers that had conquered 1/3 of the world.Then again, one could argue that establishing a continental hegemony in Europe would essentially equal 'conquering the world'. >Poland would share the fate of Romania, Hungary and other satelitesLucky for Poland that this never happened IRLWith hindsight, it seems like Polands fate was inescapeable, regardless if they were in the allied camp or German camp. Hitlers ambitions would enable a Soviet takeover of Poland, one way or another.
>>18696159>Lucky for Poland that this never happened IRLThey got a lot of land off Germany and ended up being in the good guys camp, something that would not happen if they joined Axis>With hindsight, it seems like Polands fate was inescapeableIt was, the country was squeezed between two genocidal states that hated their existence. Geneva disarmament conference was the last hope for the Second Polish Republic, so once Hitler decided to quit it and decided to fully commit to the war preparation, it was over
>>18695815Import economies have an easier time than export ones. You can always find a person willing to sell you something, if you have money. You might get price gouged, or able to only secure a small amount of what you want, but you'll have a trickle of trade as long as you have the means to pay. It's basically impossible to completely close off trade to a state, no matter how thorough your embargoes and blockades are. But throttling trade is far, far worse for an export economy than an import one. At worst, an import economy throttled will shrink down to a level where it can be productive, and will grow in sectors that aren't affected by the scarcity of whatever vital import is being blocked. This is because import economies almost always have one thing in common: a strong domestic market. They consume enough of their own domestic product that it creates inherent demand for more, which creates incentive for economic growth to meet shortages and demand. Meanwhile, export economies have the opposite problem. They over-produce, and generally have weak domestic markets whose demand does not match their own supply. This is why they export, not because they can but because they have to. They need to, in order to actually profit off their production. Else it just piles up, and increasing supply simply devalues it more and more until the economy crashes. The only way to offset this is to stall production, which causes cascading issues throughout the entire economy and society at large.
>>18696173>They got a lot of land off GermanyYes, but the Germans may have offered them a lot of land in the east if Poland had played ball, again with the ww2 Romania reference; take west > give east.>ended up being in the good guys camp, something that would not happen if they joined AxisDepends on who wins, or if there even is a war.I know a lot of people take for granted that Hitler ABSOLUTELY will invade the USSR because its implied so in Mein Kampf, but if there is no German-Polish war in 1939, we've basically changed virtually the entire premise of the war with the USSR as we know it, since Barbarossa was heavily motivated by the desperate need for resources to fight Britain, and to remove Britains will to continue the war by having the USSR as a remaining factor, and to rectify the trade and geopolitical imbalance from the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact (since Stalin was making increasing demands on German allies in exchange for vital trade goods of grain, rubber and oil).We really cannot know how things would have played out, what a casus-belli would have been on a war with the Soviets or the French, if unfolding events would have changed German strategy etc. If the success would have made the Germans content with their position for the time being.No German-Polish war alters the entire timeline as we know it.
>>18696190>but the Germans may have offered them a lot of land in the eastMy point is, Poland wouldn't get that land because they would lost the war alongside Germany>We really cannot know how things would have played out, what a casus-belli would have been on a war with the Soviets or the Frenchcasus beli is that hitler wants to conquer USSR and France is USSR ally. Britain would still fight Germany, Poland was the thing that throw a wrench into restoring the anti-german coalition from WW1
>>18696135Well they were way past Czechia case already in September so your what-if scenarios doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I mean they would have to retreat from GC and then go back in after some time and the whole ordeal would be just a waste of time. But whatever. Point is eradication was decided right after your Hungary 2.0 idea failed, if it would even be that.
>>18696293>the whole ordeal would be just a waste of timeIt wouldnt be a waste of time.The point is to end the war with the west.I literally posted a pic of a newspaper where Hitler 'lists' his peace offers, which an independent (albeit smaller) Polish state was presented.Hitler wants to sell the idea that his war on Poland had limited objectives, so that France and Britain may come to terms.Saying this is a waste of time is like saying Munich conference was a waste of time. It wasnt. Germany get territory and severely weakened the Czech state, which ultimately paved the way for a takeover that seemingly went under the radar of any intervention, and it worked. The Germans got Czechia without a shot being fired or war declared.So yes, my point does make sense, you're just refusing to see it because your mind is already decided that only one alternative, the IRL one, was the only one in play.I advice you to read AJP Taylor, virtually every historian, Overy, Evans etc use his publications as a framwork. The war with Poland was never planned but happened in a whim, the plans drafted in the final hour. Germany originally merely wanted Poland on their playing field. When that didnt happen, forcefull subjucation became the alternative.
>>18695752Soviet Union was going to invade Poland anyways.So you have to sign Molotov-Ribbentrop regard less.In a modern context, think of it like "If we sit on our current borders we lose the AI race to China."
>>18696333>Soviet Union was going to invade Poland anyways.There is no proof that Soviets were planning on invading anyone until Germany presented the opportunity per their plans.
>>18696041WE REWMEMBA DA DESEMBA WHEN DA WIMBED HUSSAAARS AWIVEDpolska w nazis btfo
>>18696341>There is no proof that Sovietsproof?the proof is Stalin literally said in 1939 "we have to expand militarily"Khalkin Gol is also PROOF the USSR wasnt shy about asserting rather questionable territorial claims.
>>18696173>They got a lot of land off Germany and ended up being in the good guys campThey lost 1/3 of their country and lived under communist rule for fifty years.Poland got off worse than Germany in the post-war draw up.shouldnt have stolen all that land huh piotr?
>>18696159>continental hegemony in Europe would essentially equal 'conquering the world'.yeah the USSR ruled the world lmfao.>continental hegemony is when the central powers exist with slightly less landwhat the fuck is wrong with you?
>>18696345No that isnt proof.Kruchev saying "we will bury you" isnt proof that he was planning ww3.USSR invading Afghanistan isnt proof they were planning on invading NATO.Proof would be existing plans.There were no plans whatsoever to start any war with any European country.
>>18696102>>18696012>>18696032>>18696093>>18696073Pobedobesie cope for a zigger lol
>>18695857>Somewhat true, but they didnt go to war because of the economy. There is no evidence to ever suggest this. The only historian who argues this is Adam Tooze.I didn't say that, I think the war was started purely for ideological and political reasons, not economical. The economy was just kept afloat for longer due to the war but that wasn't why it was started.>>18695967>your understanding is completely wrong because Germany's debt to GDP ratio only WORSENED after going to war.Why does that mean the pre-war situation wasn't unsustainable?>>18696052>Where does this low IQ, retard "understanding" come from?From the same place the vast majority of our general knowledge comes from, it's just bits and pieces that you've picked up over the years, the same way a lot of people know that Caesar was stabbed to death in the senate, despite never having read any Roman sources for it, it's just something they've heard or read. Anyway, at the very least I hedged my answer by saying it was my understanding, because I know that I'm a layman and I haven't done any direct historical analysis of this topic, but since you are clearly above all of this I expect you'll soon grace the thread with paragraphs of meticulously sourced and well-reasoned arguments.
I love how wehraboos or Germans think that everyone should simply comply with a super strong Germany lol."We didn't want a war, we only created a huge army to tard wrangle all our neighbours"... ?
>>18696694You clearly dont know what a wehraboo is if you think this is the definition.
>>18696347Polegods colonised germutty land and brought in order and civilisation,you can think of germutty as Africa or India and Poland as the British Empire, it was the same thing
>>18696779>>18696694See>>18696369
>>18697025See>>18696779
>>18696694>should simply comply with a super strong Germany>no you must fight Germany cuz reasons lol????????They complied with the UK, USSR, and USA, why is Germany different? Germany didnt drop napalm on enough White people? Germany didnt oppose White holdouts in Africa enough??Germany was too farsighted and predicted Israel would be a diplomatic catastrophe for everyone entangled with them???What is Germany's actual crime?Who gives a fuck about Poland? Im American not Polish, Poles are stupid apes to this day.jeets of Europe going between "haha we are genocidal rapists" and "HALP HELP KURWA IM BEING RAPED AND GENOCIDE"make up your fucking mind.
>>18696491>Why does that mean the pre-war situation wasn't unsustainable?There's no evidence the pre-war situation was unsustainable because their Debt to GDP ratio was GOING DOWN.That is the telltale mark of a healthy and growing economy.Germany was able to borrow to pay off with low interest rates because they had an extremely robust productive sector.You can say "oh they used economic magic and """"""fraud""""" to kickstart their economy" well ok but by 1936 they had paid all their dues and not only broke even but began to attract investment at extremely low rates while their competitors were hiking rates still trying to recover from the depression.tl;dr, Germany lowered the interest rates, paid off their debts through investments, and began to overproduce to the point where they turned profits.That is why its called an economic miracle.it heavily relies on an intelligent and hard working population as its economic backbone, its really not magical at all, its that Western countries are filled with lazy Angolems, Slavs are dumb lefties, and nons are just stupid and lazy.sorry you heard it from me, but there are no "forces of history", there are only Men.
>>18696351>there were no plansplans?>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Redwow Britain sure was stupid lmao, didnt they know America had plans to invade them?Here's the speech btw.dont reply to me again.>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin%27s_speech_of_19_August_1939
>>18695985Germany couldn't wait because of the USSR growing to the East. If they waited 2 years, Barbarossa would have stalled at Kiev.As well, French and British reticence to war would only last so long if it was obvious Germany was being a bully and going fully irredentist.They needed to move fast to get into the best positions possible ASAP.
>>18696013Ethnic Czechs had a long outsized influence in Austro-Hungarian industry and weapons development.That is why when they split, the Czechs were world leaders in firearm and artillery design and Austria was a C-lister at best.It wasn't a case of Austrian factories coincidentally built in Bohemia. It was a case of the Czechs being the experts.
>>18697091Is it even called economic miracle? Who calls it that? The only economic miracle I know of is the West German 1950 one.
>>18697100That's not the speech, that's the wikipedia page, also the alleged speech is really funny as it's basically Stalin saying that they will use Germany to weaken Europe and only thanks to Germany they will be able to conquer it. >if we conclude a mutual assistance pact with France and Great Britain, Germany will back off from Poland and seek a modus vivendi with the Western Powers. War would be avoided, but further events could prove dangerous for the USSR.>Germany grants us full freedom of action in the Pribaltic/three Baltic States and recognizes our claim on Bessarabia. She is prepared to acknowledge our interests in Romania Bulgaria and Hungary.>Therefore, our goal is that Germany should carry out the war as long as possible so that England and France grow weary and become exhausted to such a degree that they are no longer in a position to put down a Sovietized Germany.So you basically proved that there were no plans to invade the Europe until it will be destroyed by Germany. This makes Germany essentially just Soviet pawns.
>>18697130I would also add that Bohemia and Silesia had lots of iron and coal to exploit which made industry more viable through vertical integration
>>18696779Slavic Bolshevist were angels who send demonic germanix cockroaches back into the depths of hell
>>18696779For Poles, it was their white man burden to colonise germany lands
>>18696190If Hitler didn't come from the West, the USSR would have come from the East.
>>18697201nope
>>18697091What's your source(s) for these claims? To my knowledge they never paid off their debt, the consumer goods industry was suffering because it had to compete for workers with rearmament with led to labor shortages, foreign exchange rates were close to non-existent so they had trouble importing critical goods like oil and rubber and so on. Hardly an ideal economic situation, but you seem like an incredibly biased person.
>>18697037See>>18697025
>>18695997It literally crashed a decade later tf are you taking about
>>18695989>Slovakie seceding justified Germany occupy Czech lands he promised not to take
>>18697589see>>18696779
>>18697715>occupyYou mean the soldiers Hacha asked to stabilize his country?>promised not to takeand it wasnt taken, Hitler literally said "its unbelievable luck Czechoslovakia has fallen into our lap"Germany did NOTHING wrong with Czechoslovakia, literally nothing wrong.Even by the most high horsed English precedents, the English invaded fucking Ireland and killed hundreds of them in the 1920s, literally naked conquest WHILE THE SITTING GOVERNMENT THAT CRITICIZED HITLER SUPPORTED IT!Germany was angelic by comparison.>>18697228There are two studies one by Groeningen U. and London U., they are easy to find.
>>18697130Nope. Wrong on all counts and even Skodas history page on their website proves you wrong.Austria specifically stored their gold and their industry in Bohemia because it was the safest part of their empire.The Czech "experts" had gone out of business before Austria began heavily investing in Skoda to build naval guns.yeah Czechoslovakia famous for its expertise in.... naval warfare???? LOLAustrian capital grew Skoda from nothing specifically to serve the Empire.The Czechs werent "experts", stop this skyrim racial ability nonsense.They had an arms industry because centrally planned Austrian emperors and administrator decided to build on in the valley flanked by mountains covering their norther border.Skoda's offices were in Vienna, not Prague, I dont think you knew that.
>>18697173>you basically provednope.Read the speech.Stalin explicitly states military expansion is necessary to the Soviet Unions interests.You ignore this because it proves you wrong and you have chosen this hill to die on for some reason.Stalin also remarked at the end of WWII that Peter the Great had pushed to France, as he was demanding more concessions than what was agreed to at Yalta.I dont know why you want the Soviets to be gay.The Soviets were based, but Germany was better.Youre just mad because the Germans called you a monkey then shot you before you could protest.You are slave morality, Germany is master morality.
>>18695752The answer is none long. In the long term no people enjoy living in a dictatorship. And whole German economy would crash if they didn't keep invading other countries.
>>186970910% INTEREST RATES ON LOANS FOR YOUNG FAMILIES !!!! 25% OFF FOR EVERY CHILD !!!>DEUTSCHLAND :SIEG >HEIL !SIEG>HEIL !!SIEG>HEEEEILLLL !!!
are these threads ever anything other than "nazi germany was a utopian paradise and any evidence to the contrary is a jewish fabrication"?
>>18698604I don't think I've ever come across another person who says "I like the idea of an ethnostate that's pro-natalist and pro-eugenics but obviously the aggressive wars of expansion and all the camps were a bad thing," it's always just endlessly making excuses for the Nazis.
>>18698841from the eugenics point of view, hitler was an absolute diaster for germans, millions of their best young males got slaughtered or died in gulags for insane unrealistic goals
>>18698479get the fuck out with this welfare commie bullshit
>>18698841>"I like the idea of an ethnostate that's pro-natalist and pro-eugenics but obviously the aggressive wars of expansion and all the camps were a bad thing,"Post War Germans said this all the time and it was heavily censored, the majority opinion in Germany from 1945-1975 was National Socialism was the best system they ever had but it had been poorly and recklessly implemented.>>18698978as was the war for Britain, the US, USSR, and Japan, from a eugenics point of view NO industrial wars are ever beneficial because the killing is random and tends to stochastically and disproportionately target intelligent young men, on both sides Pilots had insanely high casualty rates, the better the pilot the less chance theyd survive on both sides.Pilots represent the elite of the elite, being high performance young men, whether its RAF escorts of American bombardiers, Luftwaffe aces, Japanese carrier escorts, Soviet interception airmen, everyone lost their elite pilots at a huge rate.What WWI did to Aristocrats (you can be an aristocrat genetically despite holding no titles or recognition) with the mass assault officers go first, WWII did to the upper elite of every social strata from working class genetic lottery winners to high quality well bred upper middle class low level nobility.
>>18698604>utopian paradisewhy the strawman, these threads are mainly correcting the laughably juvenile narrative that Germany was the rebirth of the ancient Goths with an economy based solely on looting gold and weapons from other countries like Theoderic and the renegade Foederati.
>>18699318>Post War Germans said this all the time and it was heavily censored, the majority opinion in Germany from 1945-1975 was National Socialism was the best system they ever had but it had been poorly and recklessly implemented.I meant people alive and advocating for it today, like 4chan users. I just think it's sad and tiresome that I've never come across someone with these beliefs that seem, well, sane and likeable. It's all just "14/88 race war now, gas the niggers and kikes" and endless vitriolic hate. It would be nice to come across a national socialist or someone vaguely interested in the merits of eugenics that also comes across as a well-adjusted individual.
