>>18701777
I'm not a Christian, but if that happened to my daughter, I wouldn't want my daughter's rapist to go to hell, I would want god to make it so that my daughter was never raped in the first place.

Hell is also an evil place and I don't want any being to go there, I don't want hell to exist.

>>18701777
What drives you to spam the same thread over and over again?

>>18701788
wasnt me retard just answer the question faggot

>>18701792
Why are you so mad that you attack a portrayal of zeus and call it the god of the bible??

>>18701777
Christianity is the ultimate cuckold religion. Yes, you do have to accept your daughter’s pedophile rapist because he made a pact with yahweh jr

>>18701795
lol what are you talking about? are you denying yahweh forgives all sins including rape and murderer except for blasphemy on the holy spirit

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>>18701803

>>18701807
not me but even if it was thats a different theological question or are you too retarded to see the difference?

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>>18701809

>>18701782
You would blame God for giving Man free will?

>>18701816
not me and still a different question. so im assuming if i murder your daughter youd accept me in heaven?

>>18701818
I don't blame god for giving Humans free will, I blame god for not making it so that the rapist wouldn't be able to rape my hypothetical daughter, god could have out the rapist into a coma just before they were about to rape my daughter.

>>18701819
My point being that you keep shitting up the board with dumb theological questions better addressed on >>>/x/.
You will get different answers depending on which Christian denomination you ask.

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>>18701807
>>18701816
>Implying only one user on the board has godjaks saved to their computer

>>18701788
unresolved daddy issues, and having too much free time.

>>18701824
>I don't blame god for giving Humans free will, I blame god for not making it so that the rapist wouldn't have free will

>>18701857
How do you define free will? If person A tried to shoot and murder person B, but their gun misfired, would the misfire of that gun have negatively affected the free will of person A to murder person B?

>>18701777
They'd pretend to be perfectly okay with it.

>>18701875
If God intervenes and causes the gunman's misfire, that would negate his free will to shoot it. If the gun simply misfires because its a poorly maintained piece of shit, that does not negate his free will.

>>18702088
Why is person A's free will negated in the 1st scenario and not the 2nd if the outcome is the same?

Now suppose instead of a misfire, a passerby jumped in front of the bullet at the last second to save person B, would person A's free will to kill person B still be violated?

>>18702203
Free will is in reference to the lack of divine control by God over a persons actions. I feel like you're completely missing this point somehow.

Free will simply means that God is not physically forcing you to do anything. He's not stopping you from doing something evil, he's not forcing you do something good. He's letting you determine your own actions, but of course this doesn't mean you have full control over the outcome of your actions, such as your gun misfiring. If your gun misfires, it's more likely that you just have a poorly maintained piece of shit gun, not that God is preventing you from firing it. If something doesn't go as you wanted, that's not God violating your free will, that's just you not being a god yourself with full control over causality.

And of course people can violate each others free will. If I speed and a cop pulls me over for it, he has violated my will to go fast, and if he tries to arrest me and I run, I violate his will to arrest me. But none of this has anything to do with God depriving us of our free will as there is no divine intervention forcing me to go fast, get arrested, flee from the cop, or get chased by the cop. I chose my actions and the cop chose his in turn, even if our actions and their effects do not go as we want them to or get impeded by another.

>>18702258
>Free will is in reference to the lack of divine control by God over a persons actions
>Free will simply means that God is not physically forcing you to do anything.
Person A's free will isn't violated by god forcing his gun to misfire, person A freely choose to attempt to murder person B. Likewise with a passerby jumping in front of the bullet of person A, person A's free will to attempt to murder person B was not violated by that passerby.

In reference to OP's hypothetical, a rapist freely choosing to rape my daughter, and then god making it so that that rapist falls into a coma just before they rape my daughter, god would not be violating the free will of that attempted rapist.If god is truly omnipotent and omniscient, he can engineer a universe where Humans have free will AND where no one ever harms other people.

>>18701777
When you get to heaven God brainwashes you so you won't care about any of this.

>>18701788
It's funny and makes retarded christians seethe.

I'll allow it. Continue!

>>18701777
On the flip side being raped and murdered made your daughter curse God with her last breath so now she's in Hell

>>18702377
If God controls the effects of every action we take in our lives, but still lets us take the actions to no avail due to his direct intervention each time, could you truly say that we have free will? If you wanted to shoot someone but every time you tried, God intervened and stops it by misfiring the gun, having your gun stolen, having the police catch you beforehand, or obstructing your ability to ever find the person, how would this be free will? If you wanted to commit adultery, gamble, convert to another religion, just literally do any action imaginable that God wouldn't approve of, and have God directly and totally obstruct your ability to carry it out each and every single time, despite you still having the ability to TRY to carry it out, how would this be free will?

For us to live in a world where we have free will, we will have to live in a world where we can harm another. For us to be stripped of the ability to harm another through divine intervention whenever we try, we will no longer have free will, as we will be forced by God to do exactly what God wants as he will always intervene to ensure this, regardless of whether or not we maintain the ability to still try.

You cannot logically argue that we would still possess free will if God can just put us into comas whenever we do something which displeases him, be it attempting rape, murder, idolatry, adultery, blasphemy, etc (because why would he stop at intervening only with murder and rape? There are many more sins which displease him beyond these two).

>>18701777
>God says no because he repented for his sins and believed in Jesus Christ
I'm not religious, but that's not the gotcha you think it is.
He already went through hell internally. This is what true repentance is and the God can tell apart someone repenting and someone faking.
You couldn't punish this guy more than he already punished himself.

>>18701777
Such earthly problems do not matter on the other side

>>18702484
no you're talking complete shit. Suffering is not enough on its own to equal repentance. Why are you here? Why bother posting when you know fuck all about the subject matter. You're an idiot.

>>18702499
Let's remove the supernatural element.
A guy rapes and kills your daughter, delivering tremendous pleasure from the process. Then he sees the error of his ways without any external influence.
Now this guy realizes that his deed was monstrous. He will never do something like this again, but the weight of the deed is with him, forever.
If you go to the guy after that, explain that you're the girl's father and you're about to torture and kill him, it would actually be a relief for this guy and he would let you do it unless he has no other responsibilities.
You cannot punish him more.

>>18702507
>You cannot punish him more
you clearly lack imagination

>>18702513
How? The torture would be accepted as just repentance for his past transgressions.
You can innovate torturing him, but at some point you stop torturing him specifically and start torturing his body, at which point he has no way to make any meaningful decisions.

>>18702468
>If God controls the effects of every action we take in our lives, but still lets us take the actions to no avail due to his direct intervention each time, could you truly say that we have free will?
Yes, god already does that to a certain degree. The atoms of my cells stick together because of chemical, physical, physiological bonds between them, I do not consciously will that. The reason I don't fly into space is because of the gravitational attraction the Earth has on my body due to the laws of physics, I do not consciously will that.

>If you wanted to shoot someone but every time you tried, God intervened and stops it by misfiring the gun, having your gun stolen, having the police catch you beforehand, or obstructing your ability to ever find the person, how would this be free will?
It would be my free will because I CHOOSE to do those actions, whether or not my choices have the intended consequences I want them to have doesn't change the fact that I freely willed those choices. If I will myself to walk through a wall, but find that the electromagentic forces of the atoms of the wall repel the atoms of my body, does that mean that god has impinged my free will to wlak through that wall?

If I will myself to breathe fire like a dragon but find no flames coming out of my mouth, does that mean that god has impinged my free will to breathe fire?

If my free choices had the intended outcomes that I want them to have, 100% of the time, I would be omnipotent. Imagine a universe where the murderers knife phases harmlessly through the body of their intended victim instead of materially stabbing them and harming them, would such a universe really have any less free will than our current universe where I cannot write Trump's name in a deathnote and have him drop dead from a heart attack thousands of kilometres away? Why do you believe a free choice MUST have the intended outcome of the chooser for that choice to be free?

>>18701777
You Thank The Lord and go to work.
He sent you to heaven, and even locked the guy that hurt your daughter with you!

>>18701875
God is not a magic genie. God is one divine being. Stop imagining that God does magic tricks.

>>18702258
>people can violate each others free will
That is what rape is on a spectrum of violation. What you are saying is that you want God to rape rapists.

>>18702377
>he can engineer a universe where Humans have free will AND where no one ever harms other people
I guess that's why he is engineering sex dolls, VR, and CGI.

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>>18701777
You are disappointed that heaven isn’t merited, but you aren’t going far enough- your daughter can go to hell too if she’s a faggy atheist.

>>18702536
It's obvious that you are trolling or are just wholly incapable of logical reasoning at this point, so this is the last reply.

Free will = God neither controlling your conscious actions nor the effects of action he dislikes. Actions done by biological design and necessity such as breathing and blood flowing does not violate free will. Someone else violating your free will is not God violating your free will. You not having godlike powers is not a violation of your free will. God putting you into comas to stop you from doing something he dislikes is a violation of your free will. God actively stopping you from doing anything he dislikes by obstructing your attempts is a violation of your free will. Your attempts not going as planned in general without divine intervention is not a violation of your free will.

>Why do you believe a free choice MUST have the intended outcome of the chooser for that choice to be free?

Strawman fallacy. That obviously is not what I said. God not actively intervening to change the outcome of every action made that he dislikes is free will, not every outcome going exactly as you want. I literally explained this already with the prior cop analogy. If you are still confused, after all of this, I think you should just accept that you're not the brightest tool in the shed and move on.

>>18701818
I think so because having it is completely indescernible from not having it and simply not being conscious of the first spark of an idea... So there is really no reason at all to not simply program us all to act perfectly and simply be under the illusion that we're making the choices.

>>18701777
You don't have to worry about that because you will be in hell while the murderer and your daughter will be in heaven, even cuddling with each other.

>>18702487
If that's remotely true, why do christcucks keep clutching their pearls when someone implies Judas or Hitler went to heaven?

>>18703089
>Actions done by biological design
Whose design? God's, right? The reason that a bullet fires from a gun is because god has made it so that the chemicals in the gunpowder of that bullet explode when struck by the trigger of the gun. Was it a completely random choice of god that those particular chemicals explode when struck, and thus propel a projectile, or was it a conscious decision of god's? If the latter, did god foresee person A firing a bullet at person B long before he created the universe, and it's physical laws? If god is omniscient, then the answer to that question is yes.

So if your definition of free will is true, that a god must not interfere with a person's free will NOR the effects of his actions, how can you say that god doesn't interfere when person A chooses to fire a bullet at person B, when god made the conscious decision to create the universe such that the chemicals in the gunpowder of the bullet explode when struck by the trigger pulled by person A? How is this scenario any less of an "intrusion" into the effects of person A's actions than if god made the bullet fired by person A phase harmlessly through person B without causing them harm?


>God neither controlling your conscious actions
All that is required for free will is god not controlling your choices, the effects of my actions do not determine whether the choices I've made to try to bring about those actions are free or not.

>>18703098
Because a clear reading of the Bible says Judas goes to hell.
>hitler
Who cares.

>>18701777
You ACTUALLY have to repent though.
Just saying you're sorry and you believe in Jesus doesn't cut it.

Fedoras believe that hell is never justified in any circumstances and is by itself a justification for rejecting Christ, but also they use it like this when then think they can get an own in on the christchuds. Every single moment of their existence is defined by the desire to shock, mislead, and beg attention from Christians.

>>18703117
>Because a clear reading of the Bible says Judas goes to hell.
Are you sure? Because "a clear reading of" Matthew 27:3 combined with mainstream Christian dogma says he goes to heaven.

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>>18701782
10/10 reply OP BTFO

>>18701777
>777
Lol.

>>18701857
nta but god prefers the rapist to have the free will to rape to the free will of the victim to not be raped btw

bump

>>18701777
Accounting for what exactly ? Is adding an emotional tone to your example necessary to reach the truth or validity of an idea or a system?
If we changed that example to someone who assaulted you in a bar once when he was drunk would your argument become weaker all of a sudden?
I don't think my emotions should play any role here , me being offended or not doesn't matter but let's engage with your example anyways.
If that person actually and truly repents then he 100% should surrender himself to the police and plead guilty, that's what any priest would also say when a crime is confessed. So repenting is actually pretty hard because it requires accepting the consequences of your actions on earth and not running away from them. If the rapist actually did that and he genuinely changed then yes I'd have no problem with him being in heaven because repentance isn't a one time thing it's a continuous process and with the years the person he is will be completely alien to the person he was and if that new changed person gets eternal hell then what's the point of change and repentance? Why we as people who commit different type of sins get the opportunity to change and be forgiven by God and he doesn't? Aren't all sins filthy and evil compared to the glory and goodness of God? Is there a sin God is incapable of forgiving?
Now blasphemy against the holy Spirit isn't cursing him , it's falling in sin and rejecting every chance for repentance and every call from God so if you repent you aren't blaspheming the holy Spirit.
Jesus used this line exactly when the Jews attributed his miracles of exorcising demons to Beelzebub, what they said is blasphemy against the spirit because it's a rejection of God's grace and attributing his saving actions to the devil.
Lastly if you want to understand hell then I suggest Trent Horn's latest video on it and it also provides other sources like books you can read because I guarantee that you have no idea what hell and how it operates.