Long shot, but does anyone have more info about this so I don't feel insane? I learned recently that Athena's Etruscan counterpart, Menrva, was often shown on art in romantic-looking poses with Hercle (counterpart of Hercules). We have no surviving Etruscan literature but going by this consistent motif scholars generally interpret these poses as indicative of a lost narrative of the union of the two gods, in a departure from Athena and Minerva's usually virginial character. The scholars in question also labeled this pairing a purely Etruscan invention, like Menrva being a lightning thrower or associated with medicine on top of war. I have found none that don't make that claim. But I DID find this random master's thesis (by a guy who's a Classics PhD now) and apparently it goes beyond that and there actually WAS similar Greek art?https://escholarship.org/content/qt7hm110md/qt7hm110md.pdf?v=lgThe smoking gun is a c. 500-600 BC Greek vase painting (the Etruscan art we have by contrast is newer, 200s-400s) which labels Athena as "Herakles girl [kore]", but in the context of a wedding where "kore" would almost always be translated as "bride." There's more that I'll post. So did the Etruscans actually make this up themselves, and the pairing was unique to them? Or did they and at least some Greeks independently come up with it? Or or were the Etruscans preserving an older Greek narrative lost to time? What the fuck is going on here?
> On this red-figure Attic stamnos from Vulci (Figure 5, LIMC: Herakles 2873, ARV: 217), we find the central figures of Athena and Herakles again flanked by torch-bearing attendants ā attendants which signaled in the previous two scenes [Helen/Paris and Herakles/Deianira] that such a scene was a marital scene ā while Athena, again, leads Herakles on by the wrist towards Zeus, who stands at the left with his arm outstretched. The presence of these marriage-signaling attendants in this scene of Athena and Herakles is curious, or perhaps the use of this composition that has been used to denote marital abductions to represent Heraklesā apotheosis by means of Athena is what we should be curious about. Opposed to the scenes of Helen and Paris or Herakles and Deianira, in the first and last of these scenes which feature Athena and Herakles we see an inversion of standard gender norms with Athena, a woman (albeit a goddess), abducting Herakles, a man. It has been suggested that the use of this composition seemingly casts Herakles as the victim of rape and Athena as the rapist. 22 Although it should be clarified that the use of such an abduction schema is not limited to non-consensual unions, but also to consensual unions as well.> In fact, this hand-on-wrist gesture has been described as āa conventional way to indicate future or present sexual intimacy between women and menā (Clark 2003: 136).
> There are 198 extant vase paintings known to depict Heraklesā apotheosis in the Beazley Archives alone. A common composition for scenes of Heraklesā apotheosis is that of Athena taking him by the wrist in what is known as the cheirā epi karpo, or āhand-on-wristā gesture.15 While one may find some similar scenes featuring Hermes with Herakles (though none are known to the author to depict the hand-on-wrist gesture), Athena is by far the more common figure to accompany Herakles during his apotheosis. 16 One such example is that of the famous blackfigure cup, now in London, that features Zeus, Herakles, and Athena (Figure 2, LIMC: Athena 429, ABV 168). The unbelievably small yet intricate scene has a rather dynamic composition, with Athena clasping by the wrist a seemingly (and uncharacteristically) passive Herakles, who lags behind and is drawn forward, while Zeus remains seated. 17 This composition and this gesture of Athena, her dragging Herakles by the wrist, is a typical formulaic composition commonplace in many abduction scenes. 18 This formula, which usually features a male who grabs and pulls the wrist of a female, is common throughout Archaic and Classic depictions of abductions, evidenced in scenes such as those of Paris and Helen, Zeus and Ganymede, or Hades and Persephone. 19 Let us consider this scene, featuring the cheirā epi karpo formula, in context with others of its type.
> The road to immortality for mortals is often fraught with sexual peril, and in such scenes it seems even mighty Herakles can be seen as subject to similar peril at the hand of his abductor, much like Ganymede and Hylas. But casting Herakles as the victim of Athenaās sexual advances is curious given that Athena is the premier virgin goddess of Greek mythology and Herakles its hero par excellence, and yet these two scenes are far from the only depictions that may imply a sexual aspect to the relationship between Athena and Herakles. Not only might a viewer infer Athenaās sexual dominance over Herakles by means of their adherence to the formulaic composition (as we have seen in Figures 2 and 5) but the viewer may also rightly assume Athenaās sexual aggression towards Herakles as seen on the following red-figure neck amphora, now residing in London (Figure 6, LIMC: 3094, ARV2 : 670, BM: E 321), where Athena chases after Herakles with spear drawn. 24 Herakles flees from her whilst covering his otherwise exposed genitalia with his club. The abundance of phallic symbolism in the scene are hard to miss. This scene is like many other rape scenes wherein we usually see an armed man, an erect satyr, or lustful god pursuing a frightened woman or nymph fleeing their oft unwanted advances. 25 This is yet another formulaic scene, that is used to capture the moment before the predator overtakes the prey. In such scenes, the formula is that the pursuer usually extends a phallic symbol, the pursued frequently extends their arms in an attempt to flee, whilst the two of them make eye contact ā which signifies the moment before the prey is overtaken by the predator. 26 Again, we will consider this scene in context with its type.
> Susan Deacy, like Shapiro, concurs with Boardmanās assessment that the inscription ought to be read together and also agrees with Shapiro in his dismissal of Boardmanās Peisistratid connection, citing yet another vase on which there is a similar scene of Athena and Herakles that also bears the same inscription āHeraklesā girlā. 43 Schefold, Boardman, and Beazley find such an inscription troublesome not only on account of Heraklesā name being is in the genitive (implying possession) but also because within the context of a marital scene the translation would not only be āHeraklesā girlā but in such a context ākoreā would translate as ābride.ā44 The inscription therefore, when taken together and in this context would translate as āHeraklesā bride.ā A difficult inscription indeed. In fact āHeraklesā in the genitive (and thus implying possession of Athena) is scandal enough for Beazley ā and rightfully so. But even if such a translation may prove troublesome by defying our preconceptions of these characters, it exists nonetheless and ought not be ignored. Given the sexually charged depictions of Athena and Herakles, the composition of the scene, the grammar of the inscription, and the existence of others like it, I contend that the inscription must be read as āHeraklesā brideā even if it defies convention, or perhaps even because of its defiance of convention. But we have āabout 25 examplesā of this type showing Athena and Herakles (though sometimes also with Hermes) to represent Heraklesā apotheosis. 45 While the possibility remains that such depictions could be private commissions, whereby the bride and groom are depicted as idealized characters from myth, such a choice would still betray the idea that Athena and Herakles are a divine couple, the likes of Zeus and Hera, Dionysios and Ariadne, Peleus and Thetis, or any other such couples that a bride and groom would choose to have themselves represented as in such.
> On the red-figure side Athena and Herakles are alone, and she extends a flower to him. This small gesture, the extension of a flower, is a powerful erotic motif in ancient art, whereby the erastes, or lover, extends a flower to his or her beloved eromenos. 48 This scene shows a level of intimacy āthat exceeds any other of Athenaās relationshipsā. 49 We find that the exchange of flowers in this erastes-eromenos relationship is used with some frequency to depict the relationship between Herakles and Athena, as seen again on this black-figure oinochoe, now in Paris (Figure 14, LIMC: Herakles 3109, ABV: 230), Athena again extending flowers to Herakles, with Hermes behind him, while Heraklesā club droops conspicuously out in front of him. This giving of flowers seems to be reciprocal, sometimes with Athena as the erastes presenting the flowers, sometimes with Herakles. This fluidity is indicative of Shapiroās claim that Herakles has ceased to be the mere beneficiary of Athenaās benevolent patronage and instead has become her equal. Not only does this scene display an erastes-eromenos relationship between Athena and Herakles, but the bilingual vase by the Andokides Painter (Figures 12 and 13) seemingly presents the two of them in the thalamos, or the bridal chamber, with Hermes serving (in Figure 12) as their thyroros, or guard of the bedchamber to protect the lovers from disruption during the consummation of their nuptial union.50
> In this final red-figure scene on the following bell crater currently in London (Figure 15, LIMC: Herakles 3409, ARV2 : 1448), we find Athena and Herakles again at rest, now accompanied by a number of unidentified revelers. The two are presented extremely close, locked in an intimate stare, while a winged Eros presides above. This winged Eros is of profound interest for our purposes, Eros being the ancient symbol of divine incarnation of love, and as seen with the earlier scene with Helen and Paris, imparts erotic desire. While we understand from extant literature that Athena does not employ the crafts of Aphrodite, ancient artists make frequent use of these sexual conventions to represent Athena and Herakles together. To what end does it serve to portray Athena, the virgin goddess par excellence, as sexually aggressive to Herakles? Why present her as sexualized at all?
This isn't in the thesis but here's another piece I found (c. 520 BC) of Athena and Heracles exchanging flowers.https://kataloget.thorvaldsensmuseum.dk/en/H546
Here's the bit from Susan Deacy's Athena that this thesis often cites:> It has been observed that the scenes are resonant of depictions of ancient Greek weddings on which the bride would be conveyed to her new home in a chariot driven by the groom. > If Herakles is the bride, Athena is, effectively, the bridegroom. The striking nature of the inversion has not been lost on commentators (e.g. Leduc 1996) who have noted the incongruity between Athena, the virgin par excellence, adopting a characteristic male role and Herakles, the great deflowerer of women, being depicted as her bride. The use of wedding imagery is discernible, too, in Athenaās introduction of Herakles to Zeus. Figure 6 presents a comparable image of feminine passivity on the part of Herakles as set against masculine dominance of Athena. Athena is leading, if not pulling, Herakles towards Zeus by holding him by the wrist. This action evokes one of the standard features of wedding iconography, the cheir epi karpoĀÆ (āhand on wristā) gesture whereby, in a movement with connotations of abduction, the bride was led to her destination.> The unique closeness of Athena and Herakles is also depicted on several intimate scenes on Greek vases. In some of these scenes the two figures are shown resting with one another or else engaging in recreational activities. Athena is often shown standing beside Herakles while he is reclining. In other scenes he is playing the lyre while Athena is at his side. Elsewhere, Athena is given the role of his cup-bearer in that she is pouring from a jug into a vessel that he is holding out. Other vase paintings show them performing a handshake... Whatever is the case, they portray an intimacy and personal bond that exceeds any other of Athenaās relationships, even that with her father Zeus.
