The Second Temple represents a version of a tradition that no longer exists and can't be reconstructed, which creates complicated feelings. When Rome destroyed it in 70 AD the entire sacrificial system went with it, the Levitical priesthood, the high priest role, the Ark, all of it. What emerged after was essentially a reinvention built around Torah study and synagogue to survive without a Temple, and that reinvention has been the dominant form for 2000 years, so the priestly lineage and the Temple rituals become an uncomfortable reminder that what exists now is a post-catastrophe adaptation, not the original. Some groups like the Kohanim still carry the priestly lineage by name but the actual function is gone. There's also the tension that the Second Temple period is when Jesus operated, so that whole era is heavily claimed by Christianity as its origin story, which makes some scholars instinctively keep distance from it. It's not suppression so much as a tradition that had to leave a version of itself behind to survive.
>>18719777>It's not suppression so much as a tradition that had to leave a version of itself behind to survive.Yeah that's fair. Its just all a bunch of really shit traditions, version 1.0 and 2.0 alike. They used to sacrifice babies and baby-animals instead of just a piece of newborn human penis, as a sacrifice to the god they've always worshipped. Its pretty fucking disgusting no matter which time period you look at it from.
>>18719784The ram caught in the thicket is the moment the text says child sacrifice ends, God stops Abraham, provides the ram as substitute, and that's the line drawn. That happens around 2000 BC, roughly a thousand years before Solomon's Temple is even built around 950 BC. Everything in the Temple system that follows is animal sacrifice, not children.
>>18719777Unironically the destruction of the temple was the best thing to happen to Pharisaic Judaism since it obliterated their rivals and ensured their vision of Judaism would dominate for millennia.
The substitution logic is fear made into ritual, if something has to die, let it be this instead of me. The ram instead of Isaac, the lamb instead of the firstborn in Egypt, the scapegoat driven into the wilderness carrying the sins so the people don't have to carry the consequence. Every sacrifice in the system is fundamentally a negotiation with death, an attempt to redirect it onto something else and buy more time. Jesus in that framework is either the final redirect or the moment someone walked into death voluntarily and came out the other side, which if true changes the entire premise from avoidance to victory.
>>18719804That's cool, doesn't make it right. Mainstream Christianity is just as comfortable in its wrongness. Doesn't mean anything.
>>18719791>The ram caught in the thicket is the moment the text says child sacrifice ends, God stops Abraham, provides the ram as substitute, and that's the line drawn. That happens around 2000 BCExcept that didn't happen in real life. They didn't stop the sacrifice ritual. We know child sacrifice continued as a practice even after the collapse of the bronze age. The Abraham myth is just that: a myth. It's not verifiable history and you're making a mistake to treat it as such.Ancient Israelites were just Canaanite people. We know this because their god, Yaweh, is originally from the Canaanite pantheon. Every characteristic in current Yaweh ("god") is absorbed from earlier version of Canaanite Yaweh + Baal + El. Furthermore Yaweh was worshipped not just by the Israelites, but by the Phoenicians who identified as Canaanite as well. Phoenician mostly worshipped Baal in the northern territories, and Israelite mostly worshipped Yaweh in ttheir southern nations, but both peoples worshipped minor gods in a pantheon which they all shared. Their supreme god above Yaweh and Baal alike was called El Elyon, the one who sits the throne and carries highest authority over the other gods. Centuries of Israelite religious reform + the destruction of Phoenician people gave Israelite scribes the opportunity for narrative control over the history of this mythology. Phoenicians wrote everything down on papyrus rather than on clay tablets, so their historical records were lost to fire and wars (Punic) with Rome. Israelites were exiled and spread out, plus Israel carries nothing of value and they were already wrecked by dozens of kingdoms throughout history by that point anyway.Israel never invented anything or built anything significant during history. Basically they are just victims of cult incompetence, losers who tried to mythologize their circumstances so that it wouldn't be so shameful and embarrassing. The Old Testament scripture is a reflection of that.
>>18719777It really is such a kino era of history, I only started seriously studying and reading up on it because of /his/ but I feel like for how much impact 1st century Jerusalem had on the world it should be a bigger deal in pop culture, like as big as The French Revolution there should be a bunch of shows, movies, books about it imo.
>>18719777The Samaritan temple and priesthood still survive to this day.How do Christians explain Samaritanism not being the right religion?Samaritans still use a script from original Paleo-Hebrew.
>>18719831>impact 1st century Jerusalem had on the world it should be a bigger deal in pop cultureChristians always seeking to put cultural distance between the religion itself and the Semitic identifiers which defines its true nature. Very curious!
>>18719829Early worship was tactile and addressed anthropomorphized forces because impersonal powers can't be negotiated with and the brain over-attributes agency as a survival mechanism. Sacred energy in that framework was ontological not moral, so the Ark killed through incompatibility the way a live wire does, which is what "holy" originally meant before it softened. The Babylonian exile forced abstraction by destroying the location the god lived in, making text and obligation the portable replacement, which outlasted presence-based religion because presence dies with its witnesses while obligation runs indefinitely on its own logic. The rabbinical move made interpretation itself the encounter rather than a substitute, so study became continuous contact without requiring fresh theophany. Israel's real output was that monotheistic architecture, which restructured every subsequent Western and Islamic civilization.
>>18719839Must be nice to inherit all that POWER
. Money solved the problem of transmitting power across people who can't feel the current directly, it's a shared hallucination of stored energy that everyone agrees to honor, which works until someone mistakes the agreement for the energy itself and starts worshipping the container rather than what the container was built to approximate. The prosperity gospel move is that exact error made theological, the moment the tradition that built its survival architecture around internalized power started teaching that external accumulation was proof of divine contact, the proxy became the point and the original architecture collapsed into its own inversion.
>>18719848Which books or sourcses did you read that trickled down into the takes you have? Absolutely beautifully put, 150-160iq tierId wanna read them too
>>18720370My sarcasm detector is going off, along with my gaydar, but to be honest I don't claim any takes as my own, it's just conversation with yourself with AI as the witness, the question is the path.
>>18719829You’re making shit up
>>18719836>The Samaritan temple and priesthood still survive to this day.Huh? The Samaritans don't even believe there ever was a legitimate Temple, look at https://brill.com/edcollchap/book/9789004466913/BP000004.xml
>>18720524>You’re making shit upNo Im not. Im not a Hebrew scribe, so I've got no reason to make shit up about history.
>>18719777>The Second Temple represents a version of a tradition that no longer exists and can't be reconstructed, which creates complicated feelings. When Rome destroyed it in 70 AD the entire sacrificial system went with it, the Levitical priesthood, the high priest role, the Ark, all of it.That happened in 73CE, when the actual last judaist temple in Egypt was destroyed. Many canaanite temples with the same tradition, same animal sacrifice, same priesthood, same architecture, etc, remained though, until they were destroyed by Christians and Jews around ~400 CE when all rival Canaanite religions were outlawed.
>>18719791>sacrifice endsSacrifice does not end, it's altered.When the ram is trapped in the fence/thicket, it symbolized a priest caught in his own laws and rules. Its better to sacrifice this than laughter and children.Sacrifice does not go away, it changes (it is altered).
>>18720946every time something in you tries to claim the power the ram turns and starts cutting inward
>>18719777Tbh the Kohanim still perform some priestly duties. So I wouldn't say the entire function is gone. Only most of it.But obviously that version of the religion is gone. Though I don't think it was exceptional in that. The religious Landscape of lthe mediterranean and the middle east in late antiquity changed dramatically in a few centuries and I don't think was something that could have been prevented.>>18720801Where can I read about the practices of late Canaanite religion? I've been searching like crazy for a source but the Abrahamic religions pollute the search-pool.I'm specifically trying to find info on their sacrificial practices but anything works for me.
God stopped accepting sacrifices about 40 years before the Temple's destruction
>>18721008Not even what the Talmud says but whatever Jews for Judaism.
>>18721014I was paraphrasing the talmud chaim :-)
>>18721063You were Paraphrasing some apologist site, Breighton.
>>18720958You cant because it was all destroyed and erased from history together with 90% of ancient texts by Christians under Theodisius.But archeological research shows there was little difference between Yahweh temples and other Canaanite temples.
>>18719791>The ram caught in the thicket is the moment the text says child sacrifice ends, God stops Abraham, provides the ram as substitute, and that's the line drawn.Abraham walks down the mountain alone. Read the text.
